DUST Search - When can we see some 1.4 patch notes?

CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:

What I was trying to say in the earlier post was that patch notes are not the ideal tool for spotting problems. In the current process, at the stage when patch notes are finalized, there's limited time to iterate before the changes are in-game. And the community can help by working together with positive posts. When it comes to giving helpful feedback, Mavado is a good example. He gives focused topics that contain details which support his arguments.

Quote:

We make every attempt we can to listen and apply feedback where time and resources allow, but this is not always possible as much as we'd like. While we are taking steps with the CPM to better improve our feedback process, the rest of the playerbase can help us out in the meantime. The amount of hostility on the forums make them a very unwelcoming place for those who'd strive to post positive feedback, and the amount of hostile threads can easily clog up the forums and make our job much more difficult when scouring for the feedback that the dev teams need to see. So, to this end... while we try to improve our end of the process, we're asking for a little help from the players on their end as well

Ultimately, the goal is to setup a method that will allow enough time to tell the CPM what is planned for the next release and get their feedback (which will include voices from the community) in time to allow a response from the devs, and changes that are possible based on your feedback. So what we want to have is "better" and more "effective" communication that can then be centralized and shared with everyone.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 898	Posted - 2013.08.21 10:51:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: How are you going to give us meaningful feedback before you even try the changes? Or is your brain so awesome that you can look into the future? And while we are on the subject of feedback, guys, a few one liners and a catch word here and there really doesn't help. If you really care about improving the game, then please structure your feedback in a way that will: 1. List specific issues and the circumstance when it happened. We then put these in a weekly report and discuss them with the dev team on ways to address this. 2. Provide insight on why you think this is happening, if you can. Translation, explain as best as you can on how to reproduce the error/bug you encountered. The patch notes are there to let players know what changes are coming so they can plan their gameplay accordingly, not so that people can theory craft before hand on how things will work before they actually try it. This is exactly what's wrong with CCP Shanghai. The CCP Shanghai studio will make the changes they deem necessary without wanting player feedback beforehand. The players have made numerous threads and posts with in-depth feedback since the beginning of the closed beta last year (well December 2011 I guess?), but this feedback has, for the most part, been straight up ignored. You don't want to involve your players into your work because you believe they don't know what they're talking about and that you always know better. Did we not know that the Plasma Cannon would be bad before trying it? Did we not know that the Flaylock would be overpowered before trying it? Did we not know that the Commando would be bad before trying it? Did we not know the Ferroscale and Reactive armor plates would be bad before trying them? Do you want me to continue with this? You're making this game the way you want it to be like, not the way your players want it to be like. This is exactly why you think this game is actually not as bad as some of your players say it is. Sure, you might not think that this game is a masterpiece at the moment, but I have a feeling you're at least somewhat satisfied with the current look of the game, because it is made the way you want it to be, and not necessarily how your players want it to be. Now, I'm not saying that your players have to fully decide on every little thing in this game, but you better start listening to these players and use their feedback so that you and the players together can make this game as good as it deserves to be, because right now it's far from good.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 901	Posted - 2013.08.21 13:22:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: How are you going to give us meaningful feedback before you even try the changes? Or is your brain so awesome that you can look into the future? And while we are on the subject of feedback, guys, a few one liners and a catch word here and there really doesn't help. If you really care about improving the game, then please structure your feedback in a way that will: 1. List specific issues and the circumstance when it happened. We then put these in a weekly report and discuss them with the dev team on ways to address this. 2. Provide insight on why you think this is happening, if you can. Translation, explain as best as you can on how to reproduce the error/bug you encountered. The patch notes are there to let players know what changes are coming so they can plan their gameplay accordingly, not so that people can theory craft before hand on how things will work before they actually try it. To elaborate on this post, I don't think there is any problem with not seeing the patch notes until a few days before the patch. As you said, the patch notes are for specifically outlining every little change, and we don't really need this information long before the actual patch. However, since the patch notes are basically the only information we get about the patch beforehand, it's pretty obvious why we're screaming at you to release them way earlier. If we had an idea of what kind of changes a patch would bring long before the patch is deployed, we wouldn't have this desire to see the actual patch notes until a few days before the patch. Time and time again you have proven that you need our help with pointing out problems with the changes you make, yet you never open up for our help. You strongly believe that you know better than your players and don't want their help, which means you basically leave them in the dark by not telling them anything at all. The patch notes are there to inform the players of the details of every little change, not to surprise them with changes they never had a chance of knowing would come. Players build up a certain role and because they have no way of knowing this certain role might be altered in an upcoming patch before the patch notes are deployed shortly before the patch, you basically screw these people over. Especially with the terrible low SP gains you currently operate with, and no way to reallocate your SP.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 917	Posted - 2013.08.22 06:19:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: What I was trying to say in the earlier post was that patch notes are not the ideal tool for spotting problems. In the current process, at the stage when patch notes are finalized, there's limited time to iterate before the changes are in-game. And the community can help by working together with positive posts. When it comes to giving helpful feedback, Mavado is a good example. He gives focused topics that contain details which support his arguments. As I noted in this post, I agree that we don't need patch notes until shortly before the patch. Patch notes are for detailing every little change coming in the patch, not to tell the players about what's in the patch. The reason why we're screaming at you to get the patch notes earlier is because it's the absolutely only information we get prior to a patch, which means we have absolutely no other way of knowing what's in the patch. If we had other information, we wouldn't have a desire to see the patch notes until shortly before the patch. Quote: We make every attempt we can to listen and apply feedback where time and resources allow, but this is not always possible as much as we'd like. While we are taking steps with the CPM to better improve our feedback process, the rest of the playerbase can help us out in the meantime. The amount of hostility on the forums make them a very unwelcoming place for those who'd strive to post positive feedback, and the amount of hostile threads can easily clog up the forums and make our job much more difficult when scouring for the feedback that the dev teams need to see. So, to this end... while we try to improve our end of the process, we're asking for a little help from the players on their end as well Ultimately, the goal is to setup a method that will allow enough time to tell the CPM what is planned for the next release and get their feedback (which will include voices from the community) in time to allow a response from the devs, and changes that are possible based on your feedback. So what we want to have is "better" and more "effective" communication that can then be centralized and shared with everyone. I honestly don't know that to say about this. Ever since the beginning of the closed beta, players have been posting extremely detailed and in-depth feedback. What do you expect those players to do when this feedback is, for the most part, straight up ignored? I've had several ideas for varioues detailed feedback threads over the last months, but I haven't posted them, simply because I know the feedback is still being ignored. You think you know better than your players and you don't want their feedback. You have demonstrated this time and time again over the last year and a half. Last summer the forums were filled with a huge amount of constructive feedback, and the forums were in general very positive back then. That is no longer the case simply because a lot of players have given up at this point. They are tired of being ignored and treated in the way they have been over the last year and a half. With that said, I think you just look at the General Discussion section and conclude the tone must be the same in the other sections. If you haven't noticed then the other sections for feedback and bugs are not as bad. They're just fairly quiet for the most part, since people don't really post as much good feedback as they used to. Why are the developers using General Discussion for feedback gathering? I have seen them do this (CCP Wolfman for example). Why are they not gathering feedback from the proper sections and, most importantly, why are they not posting in the proper sections? Where is the thread in the feedback section asking for feedback on the upcoming suit bonuses overhaul? Where is the thread in the feedback section asking for feedback on the upcoming vehicle overhaul? Where is the thread in the feedback section asking for feedback on the upcoming new weapons/dropsuits/vehicles/modules? Where are the posts from the developers in the various feedback threads in the feedback section discussing with the players regarding the specific feedback in the thread? This is the kind of things we need. Do not act like you know better than the players and start to involve them in your work.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 919	Posted - 2013.08.22 06:35:00 - [4] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Again, there has been good feedback, and then there has been pointless, directionless bile spewed in all directions. Digging through the piles of **** to find gold is probably less easy than it seems. Again, like I said, last summer the forums were a better place. There were a ton of detailed feedback, and hardly anything as bad as we have now. When the detailed feedback is being ignored what do you honestly expect to happen? It's no wonder hardly anyone posts valuable feedback anymore. CCP Shanghai don't want it and ignore it instead. This has been proven time and time again.