DUST Search - SP resets --why don't they exist?

Django Quik wrote:

Seeth, you've missed a massive point against respecs here - permenancy. This is a key principle in this game that is mentioned in almost every dev/press interview that CCP has ever given. If you take away the permanancy of your choices, your decisions become meaningless and a core element of the game has to be completely thrown out.

If you want flexibility to try out different gear, you have to make that decision and spread your SP out across various things. If you want to be badass at something, you have to put all your SP into that one thing. You can't have it both ways and that is why it is important that your choices matter.

Now the whole thing about newer players making mistakes is a valid concern but offering respecs is not the best solution to this problem - the better answer is to make the NPE better, add more information, have more helpful tutorials and make the SP system easier to understand. Make militia variants of every weapon, suit and equipment, so that players can test out everything at a low level to see whether they like the feel of it. Make a MLT only game mode, so that testing this stuff can be done without the hazard of being proto-stomped every game.

People act like respecs will suddenly fix so many problems with this game but that is just tunnel vision speaking; they will cause more problems than they solve.


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Seeth Mensch Damage Core corp. The Superpowers 6	Posted - 2013.08.17 20:48:00 - [1] - Quote I've only seen one post on this, and I'm curious. The general response was "They are not up-to-date with how it oughta be" Why not charge for it, then? 4 million ISK or 100 AUR for a reset, wiping the slate clean. I hit those numbers because it seems like 100 AUR is enough to make sure folks pay attention (and CCP gets a little cash), and the 4 million because it's a few game's worth (and enough to make sure you pay attention). You can probably make arguments for up or down, I just want it to be a compelling arguement. Game flexibility generates revenue--that's been found again and again in other games. I don't know why this would be different. Whatcha think?
Seeth Mensch Damage Core corp. The Superpowers 9	Posted - 2013.08.18 20:34:00 - [2] - Quote Wow. I figured I'd get a couple of troll answers. I'll respond as I recall! 1. Yup, I am new. I didn't figure this to be a topic never brought up before, but I didn't see anything, so I asked a question. I hear that what forums are for. 2. NEXT (stupid but funny) 3. Valid reason for no point reset: Allows folks with mass resources to swing those resources more extremely in their favor. However, I'm not sure that the logic holds up: Favor for what? Being more rich? Shooting others down more effectively? They are already doing that, or they wouldn't be wealthy. I ran with some guys last night who stomped the hell out of people...and they weren't running proto stuff. 4. Valid reason for no point reset: LTP, noob. This is a "no." Nobody goes into any game knowing all the rules, not making a mistake. Making others suffer as you have is childish, and we are better than that. Well, I try to be, anyway. I think the best thing I saw was a limited number of times to do the reset, or a massive cooldown on it. I'm good with either of those, I suppose. I think flexibility should be encouraged and fun, not meaninglessly restricted. So what if it is all flavor of the month for a while? Stuff constantly changes. Wealthier folks would have an advantage in shifting around faster, I suppose. If this skill tree were paired with the opportunity to actually LEARN without having to buy into it, then I'd really be a bit more "eh, whatever," about this, but frankly, it's not. I'm not lamenting my choices, I've only tossed around a few hundred thousand at this point (god, this game has inflation!). It's not like there's a point cap, here---eventually, you can get level 5 in everything. But CCP can make money on this. Maybe that PLEX idea that was commented on--I never played EVE, so it was a little fuzzy to me, but I would love to be able to wheel and deal all these random salvage items that won't see use for months or years. I just wanna have a good time, ya'll. Thanks for answering.
Seeth Mensch Damage Core corp. The Superpowers 9	Posted - 2013.08.18 21:56:00 - [3] - Quote Ren Ratner wrote: I'll never support a respec that isn't issued by CCP to everyone on account of a massive skill tree update. Any amount of $$$ for a respec is too much. Paid respecs make the game Pay-2-Win. They also give CCP incentive to botch updates concerning nerfs/buffs so that each update would be followed by a bunch of paid respecs and more $$$ for CCP. It would foster more hate and mistrust between the players and the developers. Hm. That's a pretty good point, actually--the former regarding sloppy work, that is. People would unintentionally reward CCP for bad work (e.g. exploits, poor balance, etc). I don't necessarily agree with the latter part of the argument, but I see how it could happen as a result. Well, I confess to being totally ok with ISK but not really with AUR, I originally suggested it for no reason other than equanimity. I want CCP to give us this! Thundergroove mentioned the SP cap--I didn't really see a reason for it, but it leads to this idea: Once a month, for whatever amount of ISK, you can undo a tree from beginning to end. Discovered you hate your assault suit? Cool, you have enough points to get a different suit. Lasers suck? OK, now you have that all back again. Specced into tanks? Now you can get your equipment up instead. This requires consideration on the player for what they are trying out, and you can't always just do the combo du jour. It seems like the main argument is to keep people from having sweeping shifts--I don't know that I agree with it, I think being able to do full resets is just fine. I'm not convinced that it would be terrible for people to be able to play the way they want
Seeth Mensch Damage Core corp. The Superpowers 10	Posted - 2013.08.21 15:45:00 - [4] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Seeth, you've missed a massive point against respecs here - permenancy. This is a key principle in this game that is mentioned in almost every dev/press interview that CCP has ever given. If you take away the permanancy of your choices, your decisions become meaningless and a core element of the game has to be completely thrown out. If you want flexibility to try out different gear, you have to make that decision and spread your SP out across various things. If you want to be badass at something, you have to put all your SP into that one thing. You can't have it both ways and that is why it is important that your choices matter. Now the whole thing about newer players making mistakes is a valid concern but offering respecs is not the best solution to this problem - the better answer is to make the NPE better, add more information, have more helpful tutorials and make the SP system easier to understand. Make militia variants of every weapon, suit and equipment, so that players can test out everything at a low level to see whether they like the feel of it. Make a MLT only game mode, so that testing this stuff can be done without the hazard of being proto-stomped every game. People act like respecs will suddenly fix so many problems with this game but that is just tunnel vision speaking; they will cause more problems than they solve. This is very well put. The problem is you can have it both ways, because the skill tree is only limited by time. After a month of play, I'm spread out some (yes, a few things weren't good choices, but I'm really not bothered by that). However, your solutions you have mentioned in your last paragraph are excellent, and +1 for that alone. Of course I'd rather be specialized and do well in something. If I/we had the chance to discover that speccing into LAVs was a poor choice at the start, I wouldn't feel robbed (that wasn't me, btw!). Opportunity to try things out without either speccing into it or having to buy it with AUR is what should make my request irrelevant. I don't want respecs either, if I have the chance to make an informed decision first!