DUST Search - Av grenades/swarms OP against armor vehicle

Sgt Buttscratch wrote:

Your complaint is wierd. When your resistance is off on your STD vehicle, ADV and Proto shouldn't do their intended damage?
Absurd, yes they should.
3 STD AV nades shouldn't be able to kill your LAV, why did you allow 3 av nades to hit it.

L/LAV driving requires only a few things.
1. a big ol grin knowing how angry these folk are getting.
2. The planning of your route/laps, this includes hide/heal areas.
3. Watching th killfeed to see what AV is being used, or if certain names are showing that have bad memories attached.
4. Correctly timing on activation of hardeners/resist, knowing when to gtfo of dodge.
5. Victims

Most your complaint sounds like self induced pain for the most. If someone gets some pro nades in on you, bah thats the game. But allowing 3 STD to hit you, your fault. Being in the line of sight of swarmers when resist's are down/CD, your fault.

Lastly
"So either a damage nerf"
I don't think AV damage is off, its the vehicles that are being shot at that arent in balance.

"or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them "

I do think something needs to happen with av nades, but it's not that. 1st bring in higher tier vehicles, then adjust AV accordingly. As it stand you want someone to run up to a car moving 60mph "set the charges on the vehicle", or run up to a happy madruger with blaster, and place them on him? Not gunna happen. A more logical request would have been to remove the throwing arm from the infantry clones and add a sissy wrist left handed throw animation. Smile

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Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 06:39:00 - [1] - Quote The only things that ever really take out my armor LAVs are AV grenades and (sometimes ADV) protoswarms. Thats fine, but when a single volley of way too easy-to-use ADV or higher swarms can destroy my car when resist isn't up... its overpowered. Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them instead of throwing them in my general direction. So either a damage nerf, or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them.
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream 209	Posted - 2013.08.17 06:42:00 - [2] - Quote the last time I saw a damage nerd, he got beaten up by some jocks...
Jade Dragonis GRIM MARCH 109	Posted - 2013.08.17 06:58:00 - [3] - Quote Spread bacon on your lav. Works wonders.
Quill Killian Better Hide R Die 248	Posted - 2013.08.17 06:59:00 - [4] - Quote I have little sympathy for "murder taxi" drivers. I like Jade's suggestion regarding bacon.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 8	Posted - 2013.08.17 07:01:00 - [5] - Quote Build a better jeep then <3 a proto swarm user xo...xo
Taeryn Frost Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 47	Posted - 2013.08.17 07:01:00 - [6] - Quote Hmm...run up to a moving LAV and set charges eh. I do suppose they usually come to me, but we don't usually have a moment to stop and chat.
Taeryn Frost Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 47	Posted - 2013.08.17 07:03:00 - [7] - Quote Quill Killian wrote: I have little sympathy for "murder taxi" drivers. I like Jade's suggestion regarding bacon. If they're getting popped by AV grenades then its probably not a true murder taxi, but the cheaper variant. You know, the ones that are meant for transport and not necessarily plowing through herds of infantry.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 106	Posted - 2013.08.17 07:46:00 - [8] - Quote In Chromosome, 99% of LAVs would blow up after one hit from any AV weapon. You trolling Valentine Crendre?
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 07:57:00 - [9] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Build a better jeep then <3 a proto swarm user xo...xo theres no doing that. I have a LAV with all proto gear and resists... still get OHK'd by protoswarms
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 07:58:00 - [10] - Quote Quill Killian wrote: I have little sympathy for "murder taxi" drivers. I like Jade's suggestion regarding bacon. I don't drive murder taxis. that's for trolls and people without gun game

Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 08:01:00 - [11] - Quote medomai grey wrote: In Chromosome, 99% of LAVs would blow up after one hit from any AV weapon. You trolling Valentine Crendre? no
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 617	Posted - 2013.08.17 08:32:00 - [12] - Quote Your complaint is wierd. When your resistance is off on your STD vehicle, ADV and Proto shouldn't do their intended damage? Absurd, yes they should. 3 STD AV nades shouldn't be able to kill your LAV, why did you allow 3 av nades to hit it. L/LAV driving requires only a few things. 1. a big ol grin knowing how angry these folk are getting. 2. The planning of your route/laps, this includes hide/heal areas. 3. Watching th killfeed to see what AV is being used, or if certain names are showing that have bad memories attached. 4. Correctly timing on activation of hardeners/resist, knowing when to gtfo of dodge. 5. Victims Most your complaint sounds like self induced pain for the most. If someone gets some pro nades in on you, bah thats the game. But allowing 3 STD to hit you, your fault. Being in the line of sight of swarmers when resist's are down/CD, your fault. Lastly "So either a damage nerf" I don't think AV damage is off, its the vehicles that are being shot at that arent in balance. or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them I do think something needs to happen with av nades, but it's not that. 1st bring in higher tier vehicles, then adjust AV accordingly. As it stand you want someone to run up to a car moving 60mph "set the charges on the vehicle", or run up to a happy madruger with blaster, and place them on him? Not gunna happen. A more logical request would have been to remove the throing arm from the infantry clones and add a sissy wrist left handed throw animation.
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 08:51:00 - [13] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Your complaint is wierd. When your resistance is off on your STD vehicle, ADV and Proto shouldn't do their intended damage? Absurd, yes they should. 3 STD AV nades shouldn't be able to kill your LAV, why did you allow 3 av nades to hit it. L/LAV driving requires only a few things. 1. a big ol grin knowing how angry these folk are getting. 2. The planning of your route/laps, this includes hide/heal areas. 3. Watching th killfeed to see what AV is being used, or if certain names are showing that have bad memories attached. 4. Correctly timing on activation of hardeners/resist, knowing when to gtfo of dodge. 5. Victims Most your complaint sounds like self induced pain for the most. If someone gets some pro nades in on you, bah thats the game. But allowing 3 STD to hit you, your fault. Being in the line of sight of swarmers when resist's are down/CD, your fault. Lastly "So either a damage nerf" I don't think AV damage is off, its the vehicles that are being shot at that arent in balance. "or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them " I do think something needs to happen with av nades, but it's not that. 1st bring in higher tier vehicles, then adjust AV accordingly. As it stand you want someone to run up to a car moving 60mph "set the charges on the vehicle", or run up to a happy madruger with blaster, and place them on him? Not gunna happen. A more logical request would have been to remove the throwing arm from the infantry clones and add a sissy wrist left handed throw animation. Ok then rebalance the vehicles. I had someone solo my "proto" LAV (complex resists and repper) with the STD packed AVs because I was stuck on some boxes so yeah pretty much my own fault on that one (though the environment can be "iffy" sometimes... it was more like the side of my LAV got "glued" to the invisible edge of a box -_-). He took advantage of the situation. But I got to see that with TWO complex active resists plus my complex repper active, someone can out DPS that with 2-3 STD packed AV nades. I see some disparity in that... Perhaps the bonus that explosives to armor should be toned down...?
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 175	Posted - 2013.08.17 11:24:00 - [14] - Quote lav = transport vehicle = should be used to move to a location at speed while avoiding enemy contact then put away or retreat what its actually used for = running people over = close quarters swarms = used for taking out vehicles what its actually used for = taking out vehicles av grenade = used for taking out any vehicle that gets close what its actually used for = taking out vehicles at close range see your first mistake is using your lav at close range, its not the swarms or grenades that are broken, its the way you and others are using your lavs. its meant to be a weak transport vehicle but its not used for that purpose were as all av is used for its designed purpose. this is the only fix you need. don't get too close to enemy and don't get caught stationary or in the open without cover and av of anytype can't hurt you
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 618	Posted - 2013.08.17 12:26:00 - [15] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: lav = transport vehicle = should be used to move to a location at speed while avoiding enemy contact then put away or retreat LAV = Light ATTACK Vehicle, I don't think LAV should just for A-B transport, the element of roadkill is a cool thing really, but people over do it, they'll spend a whole match being useless for their team. getting 6 roadkills. Then my blaster tank face rapes them out.
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 19:40:00 - [16] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: lav = transport vehicle = should be used to move to a location at speed while avoiding enemy contact then put away or retreat what its actually used for = running people over = close quarters swarms = used for taking out vehicles what its actually used for = taking out vehicles av grenade = used for taking out any vehicle that gets close what its actually used for = taking out vehicles at close range see your first mistake is using your lav at close range, its not the swarms or grenades that are broken, its the way you and others are using your lavs. its meant to be a weak transport vehicle but its not used for that purpose were as all av is used for its designed purpose. this is the only fix you need. don't get too close to enemy and don't get caught stationary or in the open without cover and av of anytype can't hurt you Well, as Buttscratch mentioned, I pretty much agree that Swarms work fine for the most part, I just think that perhaps something needs to be done about their accuracy and armor damage bonus. AV grenades, however, are a different story, which is pretty much my main gripe... I think that they, with far too much ease, exert too much DPS at close, against armor vehicles. The blasters I run on a LAV are close range weapons... Theres no getting around this, so using a LAV at medium or long range is out of the question Most any one with AV grenades is in throwing distance of the LAV if my gunner and his blaster are in range of him... As a safety, anyone running a LAV as infantry support in this manner, has a "wall" of infantry in front of the LAV to get in between AV grenadiers and the LAV. This still doesn't always work. I can tell you because I know. Some of the more skilled strafers can still get off 2 AV grenades, while dodging infantry with relative ease which nearly immediately damages my LAV severely. If it's ADV packed, or maybe the PRO, then I'm simply dead. I've had this as well - someone can sneak around, stand rear of the vehicle, and throw all three AV nades and easily pop me. The DPS (how fast the guy can just simply throw three AV grenades in my direction) is so much against armor, I'm lucky if I drive away in time (and I activate resists and reps very quickly, *which is a nightmare as it is because the vehicle active module selector is very bad*) Again, I'm not running crap MLT LAVs. I'm running the STD ones (its all that's available, if you've ever checked) with complex resists/or plates and complex reppers (PRO modules)... And all this equipment and strategy can barely contend with just simple STD AV grenades... Does anyone else see just a little imbalance here? Why did I drop all the ISK and SP into LAVs and vehicle modules when someone can just get Lv 1 grenades and practically outmatch me? Just to transport people around then recall the vehicle when I'm done? ... Wow, well then... I just wasted tons of SP and ISK, because I may as well use MLT LAVs for that... Don't even get me started on Drop Ships...
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 2750	Posted - 2013.08.17 19:43:00 - [17] - Quote I'm going to go ahead and assume that you didn't know, but vehicle rebalancing is supposedly coming in 1.5.
Casius Hakoke Molon Labe. League of Infamy 248	Posted - 2013.08.17 20:38:00 - [18] - Quote Valentine Crendre wrote: The only things that ever really take out my armor LAVs are AV grenades and (sometimes ADV) protoswarms. Thats fine, but when a single volley of way too easy-to-use ADV or higher swarms can destroy my car when resist isn't up... its overpowered. Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them instead of throwing them in my general direction. So either a damage nerf, or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them. Is this trolling/bait trolling? I'm kind of confused here, if it is, its pretty well done, but if not, even more confused.
SoTah Pawp Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 739	Posted - 2013.08.17 20:40:00 - [19] - Quote That's why you get for using the armor variant rather then shield.
Dr Allopathy Raging Pack of Homosapiens 348	Posted - 2013.08.17 20:44:00 - [20] - Quote You drive a ****** LAV, or you're just not using a LLAV like you should be if you're aiming for low vulnerability. LLAVs are difficult to take out.

Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 126	Posted - 2013.08.17 20:59:00 - [21] - Quote Valentine Crendre wrote: Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- Is it really a problem that someone who (1) equips gear designed to destroy vehicles, (2) manages to sneak up on his (potentially fast moving) target, (3) unloads his entire supply of grenades on and thereby manages to destroy a STD level vehicle with STD level grenades? He still needs to hit all three, or have backup... Is it even possible to toss three grenades at a moving LAV before it's out of throwing range again? (assuming it's not trying to run over you and therefore staying in range) I don't really use vehicles, but didn't they have a scanner module that was quite efficient at picking up infantry -- for when you can't be in constant motion for some reason?
Thumb Green Novashift 284	Posted - 2013.08.17 21:09:00 - [22] - Quote Valentine Crendre wrote: They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them This coming from someone driving around in an LAV. Wonders never cease in this game.
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 21:36:00 - [23] - Quote Casius Hakoke wrote: Valentine Crendre wrote: The only things that ever really take out my armor LAVs are AV grenades and (sometimes ADV) protoswarms. Thats fine, but when a single volley of way too easy-to-use ADV or higher swarms can destroy my car when resist isn't up... its overpowered. Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them instead of throwing them in my general direction. So either a damage nerf, or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them. Is this trolling/bait trolling? I'm kind of confused here, if it is, its pretty well done, but if not, even more confused. What I'm getting at is that the bonus that these armor damaging AVs is too much against the STD vehicle that we have now. Either tone down AV (specifically SL and AV grenades) or give me ADV/PRO vehicles... I agree - to a degree - with AV users that AV shouldn't be toned down. Instead, ADVPRO vehicles need to be released, with better HP/inherent resist/etc. to contend with ADV/PRO AV.
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 21:45:00 - [24] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Valentine Crendre wrote: Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- Is it really a problem that someone who (1) equips gear designed to destroy vehicles, (2) manages to sneak up on his (potentially fast moving) target, (3) unloads his entire supply of grenades on and thereby manages to destroy a STD level vehicle with STD level grenades? He still needs to hit all three, or have backup... Is it even possible to toss three grenades at a moving LAV before it's out of throwing range again? (assuming it's not trying to run over you and therefore staying in range) I don't really use vehicles, but didn't they have a scanner module that was quite efficient at picking up infantry -- for when you can't be in constant motion for some reason? Scanner or not, the DPS that a Lv.1 Grenadier with just 3 grenades far surpasses the ability of a LAV with ADV/PRO modules to contend with it. That is my point. In other words, I'm saying I believe there is an imbalance here. AV grenades (and to a degree, ADV/PRO SLs) are too powerful for STD LAV drivers to... do anything really. They pop armor LAVs with ease and little effort. If someone manages to get the drop on vehicles, like this, then good on them. They're a good player. This is just an example showing how much more powerful this AV grenade item is than the LAV running all of this kind of gear. I'm not complaining about good players, with good tactics, who can destroy my LAV. Follow? It's the AV gear vs. Vehcile Gear disparity that I am arguing.
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 21:59:00 - [25] - Quote Dr Allopathy wrote: You drive a ****** LAV, or you're just not using a LLAV like you should be if you're aiming for low vulnerability. LLAVs are difficult to take out. Sorry, but I am using STD LAVs to their intention - as Infantry support. With AV and vehicles at the levels they are now, STD LAVs are at a big disadvantage because it contends with ADV/PRO AV (the most powerful kinds being the armor damaging ones i.e. Caldari SLs and AV grenades). LLVs are currently broken (as a nifty side effect, they can become OP murder taxis, not saying that you're one of these said taxi clowns) - The turret damage is halved (~%50) and the built-in armor/shield rep modules mechanics are absolutely terrible. The infantry locking mechanism is sh*t ( it should be automatic) and difficult to use. As a result, ppl take advantage of the built in resist, stack even more resist modules on it, and ram it into ppl. Sorry, but that's for griefers with no balls lol. It is both pathetic and really not any fun at all, unless you're a pusswad who can't afford a copy of Twisted Metal and have no gun game. I on the other hand, am trying to LAVs the way CCP (I think ) intended.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.08.17 22:10:00 - [26] - Quote Funny how last build it only took 1 nade to kill a militia lav. Good times.
KING CHECKMATE Bragian Order Amarr Empire 571	Posted - 2013.08.17 22:23:00 - [27] - Quote Valentine Crendre wrote: The only things that ever really take out my armor LAVs are AV grenades and (sometimes ADV) protoswarms. Thats fine, but when a single volley of way too easy-to-use ADV or higher swarms can destroy my car when resist isn't up... its overpowered. Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them instead of throwing them in my general direction. So either a damage nerf, or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them. No. If you get a grenade on your LAV, stop Murder TAxi-ing. Thats what you gt for being where you are not supposed to. Swarms? Please, any decent driver can dodge those Swarms might be powerful vs armor but they are weak vs shields. hate swarms? Make a Shield LAV But then dont come running back to whine about forge guns being OP. Because i'll find you And i'll kill you.
echo47 Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2013.08.17 22:31:00 - [28] - Quote Valentine Crendre wrote: The only things that ever really take out my armor LAVs are AV grenades and (sometimes ADV) protoswarms. Thats fine, but when a single volley of way too easy-to-use ADV or higher swarms can destroy my car when resist isn't up... its overpowered. Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them instead of throwing them in my general direction. So either a damage nerf, or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them. Just get out of your vehicle and shoot him in the face, problem solved.
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD 63	Posted - 2013.08.17 22:43:00 - [29] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Valentine Crendre wrote: The only things that ever really take out my armor LAVs are AV grenades and (sometimes ADV) protoswarms. Thats fine, but when a single volley of way too easy-to-use ADV or higher swarms can destroy my car when resist isn't up... its overpowered. Any ONE guy with just 3 STD packed grenades can solo my LAV. They are also incredibly easy to use... -_- They wouldn't be so bad either if only they had to put some effort into use them instead of throwing them in my general direction. So either a damage nerf, or perhaps keep the damage, but you have to physically run up and set the charges on the vehicle... then you fall back and detonate them. No. If you get a grenade on your LAV, stop Murder TAxi-ing. Thats what you gt for being where you are not supposed to. Swarms? Please, any decent driver can dodge those Swarms might be powerful vs armor but they are weak vs shields. hate swarms? Make a Shield LAV But then dont come running back to whine about forge guns being OP. Because i'll find you And i'll kill you. Finish reading the thread before you post, I don't murder taxi.


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