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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1909
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Posted - 2013.08.16 12:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:J Lav wrote:Militia Heavy suit HP = ~400/400
MD Splash damage = 100-150
MD Clip Size = 6-8
Heavy whining about MDs - Priceless. And there is the ignorant reply I referred to at the bottom of my opening post. Had you bothered to read the actual post itself, you will see I had noted that damage from the MD was not, in any way shape or form, the problem. Good job making yourself look stupid, though.
I believe his point was that once you remove camera shake you completely alter the balance of power.
The MD could begin the engagement and the Heavy HMG would spin around and hose him down and kill him.
This act of "balancing" would in fact neuter the MD's ability to keep a heavy out of an area. The heavy could stroll into CQ absorbing all the MD rounds, then hose down the MD user trying to hold the area.
The disorientation of camera shake and smoke is a crucial element of its ability to act as area denial. Remove that and anyone who can either sprint through the area or absorb the damage can traverse it unimpeded. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1909
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 16:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I tried out the MD recently, on a new character with no skills other than advanced mass driver, so it's all militia gear with an EXO-5 mass driver. I usually do this kind of thing to learn more about the weaknesses of a weapon and how to counter it.
What I mean is... The mass driver is one of the very few weapons that is able to shoot over obstacles and on top of platforms, and it could be used as effective area denial. I've managed to get a couple of kills shooting up on platforms or above obstacles, and those kills felt awesome. But all on all, attempting this just seems like a waste of shells, because you are much more likely to get a kill by just going into a close combat encounter.
I don't believe you spent much time with the MD.
The firing arc was flattened significantly which almost eliminates its ability to fire over cover of any kind or hit the floor of any surface that is above the user.
I'd rather have that arc back as the current flat fight makes area denial very difficult unless you have a height advantage. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1909
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Posted - 2013.08.16 16:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm hearing, "The weapon is fine, just eliminate the one characteristic that counters my particular play style."
Of course you would be happy then.
Let's imagine what that would sound like for another weapon system...
"The damage of the sniper rife is fine, but the problem is that it has too much range. I can't approach it before it has so many shots that its guaranteed to win the engagement.
Just shorten that up and I'll have a good chance in a duel with it, thanks."
Kind of ridiculous isn't it? That's because everyone accepts that long range is a defining characteristic of the sniper rifle.
The confusion and disorientation sown by the MD is just as much a defining characteristic of that weapon system.
Take that away and you are left with a moderate Alpha, slow RoF weapon that can be countered by straight up DPS in a head on situation. The AR, shotgun, SMG, and HMG all out DPS the MD user.
It also becomes useless as an area denial device because all it takes is speed or tanking to get through.
What you are left with is a mid to long range luck of the shot weapon. That would please non-MD users, if hat happens CCP should go all the way and remove it from the game. They could then return all SP spent on it so we could apply it to the AR. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1909
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 16:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Skihids wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I tried out the MD recently, on a new character with no skills other than advanced mass driver, so it's all militia gear with an EXO-5 mass driver. I usually do this kind of thing to learn more about the weaknesses of a weapon and how to counter it.
What I mean is... The mass driver is one of the very few weapons that is able to shoot over obstacles and on top of platforms, and it could be used as effective area denial. I've managed to get a couple of kills shooting up on platforms or above obstacles, and those kills felt awesome. But all on all, attempting this just seems like a waste of shells, because you are much more likely to get a kill by just going into a close combat encounter.
I don't believe you spent much time with the MD. The firing arc was flattened significantly which almost eliminates its ability to fire over cover of any kind or hit the floor of any surface that is above the user. I'd rather have that arc back as the current flat fight makes area denial very difficult unless you have a height advantage. I do not get the point of your first sentence. I agree that a bigger arc would also be beneficial for that role (It's pretty flat right now, but not impossible to shoot on top of platforms or above low obstacles). As is, it would be pointless though, because it would still be a waste of ammunition not to simply shoot it at targets right in front of you.
My point is that you hold out the ability to strike over cover as a large enough benefit that it should trade away its defining characteristic of confusion and disorientation for it, when in fact it is minuscule.
If you think that the current arc facilitates shooting over cover you haven't been using it long. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1909
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 18:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Skihids wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Skihids wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I tried out the MD recently, on a new character with no skills other than advanced mass driver, so it's all militia gear with an EXO-5 mass driver. I usually do this kind of thing to learn more about the weaknesses of a weapon and how to counter it.
What I mean is... The mass driver is one of the very few weapons that is able to shoot over obstacles and on top of platforms, and it could be used as effective area denial. I've managed to get a couple of kills shooting up on platforms or above obstacles, and those kills felt awesome. But all on all, attempting this just seems like a waste of shells, because you are much more likely to get a kill by just going into a close combat encounter.
I don't believe you spent much time with the MD. The firing arc was flattened significantly which almost eliminates its ability to fire over cover of any kind or hit the floor of any surface that is above the user. I'd rather have that arc back as the current flat fight makes area denial very difficult unless you have a height advantage. I do not get the point of your first sentence. I agree that a bigger arc would also be beneficial for that role (It's pretty flat right now, but not impossible to shoot on top of platforms or above low obstacles). As is, it would be pointless though, because it would still be a waste of ammunition not to simply shoot it at targets right in front of you. My point is that you hold out the ability to strike over cover as a large enough benefit that it should trade away its defining characteristic of confusion and disorientation for it, when in fact it is minuscule. If you think that the current arc facilitates shooting over cover you haven't been using it long. No you misunderstood, I said that this would make a more interesting role for the MD, but it would require some tweaks to make it viable (I mentioned this in my concrete suggestions, which you didn't quote). Right now the MD can fill that role to some extend, but I completely agree that it wouldn't be feasible as is. I'm not saying "nerf the close combat capabilities and it will become a viable long range / area denial weapon", I'm saying "nerf the close combat capabilities and then increase it's power to make it a more viable long range / area denial weapon". Then it would do what I'd expect a grenade launcher to do, and it certainly would require more tactical gameplay than "get close to a target and start spamming". That said, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with keeping it as it is. It might require a few tweaks to keep it in line, but it doesn't seem too far off. However, in that case it's not ever going to be a weapon that requires a ton of skill to use effectively. Even a shotgun is far more hit and miss. And it should go without saying that a weapon that is a lot more forgivable than others (not to mention resistant towards lag issues) cannot be at the top of the power curve without causing significant balance problems in the long term.
Ah, I misunderstood you incorrectly...
I maintain that without the confusion aspect it wouldn't be an area denial weapon at any range. People would just rush or tank it and get through. The longer the range the easier that task would be as it takes several seconds to lob a round at maximum range.
It's a challenge and great fun to fire at long range, but I couldn't run it as a logi if that were all it was good for. With no sidearm it would mean zero protection in mid to close ranges where I might be trying to play medic. Basically it would become some sort of long-range artillery weapon that relies upon luck for a kill.
And let's face it, there really isn't any need for area denial at the moment. This game is all about slaying and KDR.
Yes, on occasion I'll try to position myself such that I can scare the enemy away from an objective (usually up on a building top), but it doesn't take long before a sniper or FG chases me off. |
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