It's more than a slight difference by the numbers:



Caldari/Gallente Ehp comes out to 330, and Amarr Ehp is 360 base.

So the Amarr get 30 more hp, THIRTY.

For this 30 hp, their speed is 4% slower than Caldari/Gallente, AND they have 1 less module slot.

So, a new basic armor plate would give you more hp at less of a speed hit. Actually, there is no existing armor plate that gives you so little hp for a speed hit of 4% (and that's before the armor rebalance). Even if you argue that they have better fitting than the other assault suits, that advantage is largely negated by missing a slot.

Basically, I think the pros & cons need a little more looking at. Why exactly is the Amarr 4% slower with one less module slot? Because 30 HP seems pretty silly as a reason.

Interesting perspective. Amarr suits are puzzling in that they seem to have no real focus. I love Amarrian starships but when DUST came out of beta I made my dust bunny specialize in Gallente suits to start with so that I could feel like an Amarr should with big armor and damage upgrades to burn the unbelievers.

It's more than a slight difference by the numbers:



Caldari/Gallente Ehp comes out to 330, and Amarr Ehp is 360 base.

So the Amarr get 30 more hp, THIRTY.

For this 30 hp, their speed is 4% slower than Caldari/Gallente, AND they have 1 less module slot.

So, a new basic armor plate would give you more hp at less of a speed hit. Actually, there is no existing armor plate that gives you so little hp for a speed hit of 4% (and that's before the armor rebalance). Even if you argue that they have better fitting than the other assault suits, that advantage is largely negated by missing a slot.

Basically, I think the pros & cons need a little more looking at. Why exactly is the Amarr 4% slower with one less module slot? Because 30 HP seems pretty silly as a reason.

Definitely agree that changes to armor modules should have come with a change to dropsuit base attributes. It is not just the Amarr either in case anyone thinks I'm bias, I'd like to point towards that "If 1 shield HP = 2 armor HP" thread stating that Gallente suits should have higher base armor.

Devs recently announced some adjustments to how armor plates will function, this includes adjusting speed penalties and HP awarded.

The concern here is that there's an existing armor "paradigm" that seems to assign the hp totals to suits.

The general theme for suits across races is something like:

Amarr: most HP, slowest, has fewer slots.
Caldari/Gallente: Middle HP, Caldari are weighted towards shields, Gallente are weighted towards armor... both are faster than Amarr
Minmatar: Least HP, fastest, not necessarily the most slots though

So, you pay twice for a hp boost: you move slower (as if you were armored) and you have fewer slots (as if you have a pre-existing armor plate added that takes up space). However, if the standard armor plates are capable of giving more hp, with less penalty... does both missing a slot and having less speed make sense for what are not very large hp bonuses?

Today I was chatting with a corp mate and found out his proto assault suit had 700EHP. This irked me because my hybrid-tanked proto Amarr assault fit only has 600EHP and one of the advantages of running an Amarr suit is that its suppose to have more EHP than other suits in its frame size.

I don't necessarily think the hp of the Amarr should be buffed and everything else left the same.

It's more about the concept of them adjusting what the relative value of armor is vs. shields and the speed penalties that are implied there. The Amarr is just the poster child for the issue since they were more specifically flagged as "slower and more hp".

The devs increased the relative amount of hp on armor plates while decreasing speed penalties. For balance issues, this makes me question where the Amarr is at with a 4% speed penalty and 30 more hp (compare to any armor plate), but the relative hp of commandos, Gallente suits, etc. is also worth looking at. It's perhaps even more relevant with respect to the TTK discussions and AA.

A Gallente assault suit's hp is the same as a Caldari, but flipped. One is armor tanked, and one shield tanked. The shield hp are relatively more valuable, as they restore themselves and are harder to get (shield extenders grant less than armor plates). Both suits are the same speed, though even with Ferroscale plates the Gallente would have more hp relatively speaking.

So, it's not just an Amarr suit issue, but it's perhaps more of a concern with the Amarr because they're pushed as "beefier" and in-context your 30hp of beefiness (marginal) is being paid for by a speed penalty that is overly punitive (4%) compared to most armor plates.

I'd keep the speeds the same and just adjust the hp of the suits. It might help TTK issues to some degree (ok, probably not).

You can't look at the stats in a vacuum either, it would be a bit off to only adjust the Amarr suit. Ballpark though, I was thinking something along the lines of 30-40 more base hp on the Amarr, and keep the speed penalty as-is. Probably something like 15-20 more to the gallente.

This would make for a difference of about 60hp with the caldari, but around 40hp-ish difference with the Gallente for the same speed hit (4%) as is current. That would still be less than the hp of a basic armor plate (85) with twice the speed hit (2%).

I've been trying to avoid concrete specifics on numbers because I kinda assumed they'd be redoing ALL the hp after they got around to the armor rebalance, and I was surprised that this wasn't the case. Some amount of the advantage of movement seems to have been lost with the AA being where it is too though.

Edit: As an aside about Minmatar specifically, I am somewhat iffy about how well they fill their role as the "versatile" race. The speed and lower hp is fine, but I would've expected their suits to have some marginal scanning/profile type bonuses and/or an extra slot (but not fitting) to reflect their supposed greater versatility. Instead, they're just a fast suit with somewhat higher fitting than Caldari/Gallente.

Devs recently announced some adjustments to how armor plates will function, this includes adjusting speed penalties and HP awarded.

The concern here is that there's an existing armor "paradigm" that seems to assign the hp totals to suits.

The general theme for suits across races is something like:

Amarr: most HP, slowest, has fewer slots.
Caldari/Gallente: Middle HP, Caldari are weighted towards shields, Gallente are weighted towards armor... both are faster than Amarr
Minmatar: Least HP, fastest, not necessarily the most slots though

So, you pay twice for a hp boost: you move slower (as if you were armored) and you have fewer slots (as if you have a pre-existing armor plate added that takes up space). However, if the standard armor plates are capable of giving more hp, with less penalty... does both missing a slot and having less speed make sense for what are not very large hp bonuses?