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Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
504
   |
Posted - 2013.08.15 21:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Azura Sakura wrote:Argon Gas wrote:It's just such an amazing argument.
Imagine if there was a suit for 2m and I could go 60/0 while sneezing on some players.
Just imagine the uproar. Damn. You must have never went against proto forge guns and AV grenades. Missing the point. I'm not saying tanks are capable of doing that now. I'm saying they should never be able to, no matter how expensive your toy is.
We shouldn't lose 2m isk because some dickbag with inviso-swarms or the non-rendering forge gunner looked at us for 5 seconds. make that crap cost more, and remove the militia forge, replace it with a militia HMG. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 21:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Azura Sakura wrote:Argon Gas wrote:It's just such an amazing argument.
Imagine if there was a suit for 2m and I could go 60/0 while sneezing on some players.
Just imagine the uproar. Damn. You must have never went against proto forge guns and AV grenades. Missing the point. I'm not saying tanks are capable of doing that now. I'm saying they should never be able to, no matter how expensive your toy is. We shouldn't lose 2m isk because some dickbag with inviso-swarms or the non-rendering forge gunner looked at us for 5 seconds. make that crap cost more, and remove the militia forge, replace it with a militia HMG. If you are taken down by militia forge guns you deserve to lose 2m.
I'm not being killed by them. But they are enough to force a retreat. My 2m isk 8m SP "toy" as you call it is being invalidated by something that requires 0 ******* SP, AND LESS THAN 2000 ISK. The dev who thought these were a good idea needs to be kicked in the balls by a Glaswegian soccer player.
Even infantry players want that bullshit cannon gone. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
507
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 22:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:
I'm not being killed by them. But they are enough to force a retreat. My 2m isk 8m SP "toy" as you call it is being invalidated by something that requires 0 ******* SP, AND LESS THAN 2000 ISK. The dev who thought these were a good idea needs to be kicked in the balls by a Glaswegian soccer player.
Even infantry players want that bullshit cannon gone.
Good, it makes you retreat so you can't kill everyone freely in a pub match. It takes proto gear to actually destroy you. Militia assault rifles can still melt proto suits, get over it.
yeah, with proper flanking or concentrated fire and a lot of luck. know what a forge gun needs? to not be in direct view for 3.5 seconds.
and kill everyone? you high or something? getting 10 in a match is considered a resounding success for me since every single match has either proto AV grenades, or some dickbag with a militia forge fit since both are easily available and require not one sacrifice to use, unlike tanking.
of course, that's also using a rail tank where the render distance changes randomly(and quite frankly, the only way to not die in 15 seconds flat) One match, I can see all the way to the enemy MCC. next match, all chevrons, and nothing renders, even background items are popping in and out.
Both of those matches were on the same map, from the same vantage point.
Please, ***** to nerf me even more, maybe I should just be ******* blindfolded so you pathetic CoD shitheads have a chance against my almighty tank. Oh wait, it's not almighty, it's barely even chugging along, and that's with more SP than most proto suits require, and I still have another half a proto-suit to go until I'm good.
I honestly get more kills with a base heavy and HMG with less loss per match than I do with a tank. of course, the heavy suit has better acceleration, lower top speed, but top speed requires a map long straightaway in a tank. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
510
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 22:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Argon Gas wrote:True Adamance wrote:Argon Gas wrote:It's just such an amazing argument.
Imagine if there was a suit for 2m and I could go 60/0 while sneezing on some players.
Just imagine the uproar.
Edit:
I'm not saying tanks are capable of doing that now.
I'm saying they should never be able to, no matter how expensive your toy is. Ima disagree on this one mr Cat. AVer take for granted how much power they have over tanks. TANKs need a rebalancing.... but IMO all they need is an increase to movement speed. I find it hard to imagine a futuristic tank that cannot stop, turn, manoeuvre effectively through rough terrain. I am not saying tanks are fine. I'm saying that if CCP listened to people like Charlotte, the game will be back to Tank514 like in the E3 build. Perhaps. I would love to see faster moving tanks (and I hate to say it) like in Battlefield. Tank combat in that game looks epic.
Nothing beats playing peek-a-building in that game for tank combat.
basically, you blow holes in buildings to create your own firing vector on the opponent from an unexpected angle. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
510
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 22:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Xender17 wrote:If a full team of AV went against a full team of HAVs who do you think would win?
It only takes 2 in a team to completely shut down the map on vehicles. A team full of general death machines vs. a team full of the one thing that is designed to take out those death machines? Who do you think should win this?
it should be an even match, determined by skill. but in reality, the invisoswarms and hadokens will kill every tank before they can leave the redline. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
513
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Xender17 wrote:If a full team of AV went against a full team of HAVs who do you think would win?
It only takes 2 in a team to completely shut down the map on vehicles. A team full of general death machines vs. a team full of the one thing that is designed to take out those death machines? Who do you think should win this? it should be an even match, determined by skill. but in reality, the invisoswarms and hadokens will kill every tank before they can leave the redline. Aha... You do realise if one of those tankers steps out of his vehicle in a militia assault suit, he can probably solo the whole team of AV? You are saying that a squad of tanks should be balanced against a squad of AV... While the squad of tanks wracks havoc against infantry and other vehicles alike, and the AV does **** all despite fighting the tanks? In what universe is that reasonable game design. I do want tanks to be able to partake in a battle constructively, ideally without being popped out of nowhere with no chance of reacting to the situation. But some of the arguments that are being raised in favour of simply buffing tanks are just hair-raisingly strange.
right, because the AV can't do the militia switch at all, which they probably will as you only really need an AV squad to lock down an entire team's vehicle call downs. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
515
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:
Yes, but that wasn't the question. Should 1 AV win against 5 tanks? That's a more interesting question than "should an entire team of AV win against an entire team of tanks"? The answer to the latter question is an obvious yes.
currently? that one av will lock down the vehicles if he's worth his salt.
and I love how you're allowed to change the engagement rules and I'm not, that's real indicative of how you feel about "balance". |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
515
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Medical Crash wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Sure tanks should not be a pay ISK to win mechanic for sure, but tank drivers should be able to play a whole match without losing their tank in 2s.
Regardless of the arguments, something needs to change or tanks will never be a presence on the battlefield.
I think the problem mostly lies in the fact that AVers can kill tanks from absurd distances... I hate to say it but swarms and FGs should probably receive a significant range nerf so that AV requires closer quarters and HAVs can be better at their force multiplier role.
I also wouldn't oppose bring the current tanks down drastically in price and calling them MAVs and introducing an HAV that requires 2-3 people to operate it, and they can then be a true force to be reckoned with. No.......The range on Forge Guns and Swarms is already short. What is it for both of them, 400 meters right? That's not a lot. I've seen all vehicles escape that range many times. Absolutely NO nerf is needed, none. Forge Guns are fine.
You serious? I'm extremely LUCKY to even render to 400 meters in my railtank. and it has 600 meters technically. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
515
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 00:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
echo47 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:
I'm not being killed by them. But they are enough to force a retreat. .
Isn't that what they are supposed to do?
So, MLT which is less than 2k isk and 0 SP should completely invalidate 2m isk and 8m SP. something literally anyone can make a suit for, for basically free(mlt heavy, mlt forge) can force something that requires 8m just to be useable without dying in the first 10 seconds(now it takes almost 15!) |
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