DUST Search - Thoughts on cloaking and FF after playing 'that game' for a few months

Zero Notion wrote:

With enough profile dampening, doesn't that already negate the chevron on the radar map? We already have 'cloaking' to some degree, at least in terms of being cloaked from the TAC-Net (if that's the right term).

I like the idea of a very limited cloaking device that increases your db signature (where you would appear as the more faded chevron on the map) while keeping you in a 'Predator' like invisibility. It should break with sprinting, an X amount of movement (5-10 meters) and or when firing a weapon. It should be an assassination tool to be able to ambush the enemy. Active scanners should have a disruption capability, negating the cloak if they can penetrate the db while a flux grenade will simply negate it entirely.

I've just really started to learn how to be more stealthy on my scout, using nothing but pistols and knives. It's difficult, especially considering if I don't even know if the precision, dampening or scan radius mechanics work correctly. Some people say they do, others that they don't. I'm not sure what scouts 'need' to be more combat viable. I almost feel more scout like when I'm running my Minnie Logi.

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Decasor The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 47	Posted - 2013.08.15 09:11:00 - [1] - Quote Well, as members of the excellent 'Scout Registry' will know, I have been a proponent of cloaking for scouts at least, for some time : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90055&find=unread So, given DUST is a little stale at present I decided to play PS2 for a bit, its a nice change of pace from time to time. Started an account maybe 3 months ago, been playing on and off, fairly intensely the past 2 weeks. A few not really random thoughts that have occurred to me as a result: 1 Player Killing (otherwise known as 'friendly fire') I was in favour of introducing friendly fire for various reasons, however its a double edged weapon. Yes, it makes people more careful in combat so the random spraying of Mass Drivers/Grenades/Flaylocks isn't as much of an issue unless you don't really care much for your team mates. I still stand by this, however being sprayed by blues is a problem. Have a massive advantage over the enemy and feeling a bit bored, annoyed that someone else is going to get that MBT kill you were hoping for, don't like someone not noticing that you needed help in a fight? The obvious answer to these problems for the average immature 12 year old it seems, is to shoot a blue. Some factions and servers this is more prevalent on, sadly the Australian Server 'Vanu' faction known as 'TROL' are probably the worst, however its a big problem. You may say 'but thats PS2'. Well no its not. This is a internet problem. As much as I sometimes enjoy playing computer games, its difficult to avoid the fact they attract a rather large number of mongoloids who have no useful place in society, and furthermore, even relatively normal people are given the opportunity to act badly, and enjoy it. Its not exactly an orgy of blue on blue action, but if its irritating in a game where death means no more than an altered k/d ratio, imagine what it would be like in DUST? Just last night some blue nitwit was trying damned hard to run me over with his Harrasser (sort of a LLAV). I've never seen this guy before but he tried at least 4 times charging at me, reversing etc. Bored I assume. CCP will need to be extremely careful with this one. I stand by the good points but given some people free access to this without satisfactory penalties would be a huge problem. 2 Cloaking As mentioned I was a proponent of this, and, before I say more, i'm a scout in this game (DUST). A scout who snipes Keep that in mind when I say this. Cloaking sucks, seriously its really bad. In PS2 its limited to scouts (infiltrators they are called) and only works for a limited time. And still its not too far off being game breaking. It seems that everywhere you turn there is a cloaked sniper or a cloaked SMG guy running around ready to kill you, with no real way you can do anything about it. About to shoot them? 2 shots and suddenly they disappear and 3 second later you die in a hail of bullets from an unexpected direction (while desperately dancing around like a fairy hoping to avoid your suddenly invisible opponent who disappeared while in close combat). For reference I mostly play Mechanic or Heavy Assault in PS2 - basically Logi and Assault respectively in DUST. So this is by no means a sniper moaning about their redline tactics (or whatever other numerous insults usually get thrown at snipers in this game) being neutralized. I like sniping, I enjoy my shotty scout, but the cloaking aspect is just rubbish. I can already hear the screams for 'nerf' if even a limited version were created, and only for scouts even. And I would probably join them. I really didn't enjoy the experience at all from this point of view. Possible Solution to cloaking A far more reasonable 'cloaking' would be for a vastly reduced signature radius and while its possible to be seen to the naked eye, the Chevron doesn't pop up if someone just happens to glance in your direction. They have to actually notice you are there and 'mark' you as in place some sort of tag on you that their team mates can see for a certain amount of time. i.e. I suspect a sniper is in the hills and just wave my rifle in that direction? Nothing happens. Take more care and actually look and suddenly see a humanoid shape in the hills? Great! I can shoot it now or mark it so my team can see it and then shoot at it. I'm interested in thoughts. Please don't start the usual PS2 vs DUST rubbish, this is a discussion on the merits of these particular aspects, PS2 only being used as it already uses variants of them, for convenience.
Raxsus Lannister Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 26	Posted - 2013.08.15 09:38:00 - [2] - Quote I kinda like the PS2 idea of cloaking. limit it to scouts or make it only viable on scouts(scan precision/dampening blah blah), but I was really hoping for a Ghost in The Shell style of cloaking where certain elements can disrupt it such as moving to fast, stepping in water, getting shot etc etc. or completely negating it with an EMP/Flux for the team or having an upgraded visor making it easier to see cloaked enemies for yourself.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 208	Posted - 2013.08.15 10:21:00 - [3] - Quote I like your ideas toward a "passive" cloaking, meaning much reduced signature radius and no Chevron or pop up on minimap. This makes you hard to detect but real "spotting" by teams calling you out means you are not completely invisible. "Active" cloaking has to be done right or it will be way OP. One should not be able to fire a gun while cloaked, firing shouldn't break the cloak like in PS2. Instead one should have to decloak before being allowed to fire. Some weapons should be able to be used quicker after decloaking like Nova knives. Cloaking should have a cooldown and decloaking should spike your signature for a brief moment giving guys a chance. I do fear that cloaking will just be a killing tool. In Eve it's more of a way to travel than a battle tactic. Should be the same way on the ground, used to get behind lines and hack deploy equipment not to get behind one guy and kill him.
Decasor The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 47	Posted - 2013.08.15 10:57:00 - [4] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: I like your ideas toward a "passive" cloaking, meaning much reduced signature radius and no Chevron or pop up on minimap. This makes you hard to detect but real "spotting" by teams calling you out means you are not completely invisible. "Active" cloaking has to be done right or it will be way OP. One should not be able to fire a gun while cloaked, firing shouldn't break the cloak like in PS2. Instead one should have to decloak before being allowed to fire. Some weapons should be able to be used quicker after decloaking like Nova knives. Cloaking should have a cooldown and decloaking should spike your signature for a brief moment giving guys a chance. I do fear that cloaking will just be a killing tool. In Eve it's more of a way to travel than a battle tactic. Should be the same way on the ground, used to get behind lines and hack deploy equipment not to get behind one guy and kill him. I agree with your points, though as I mention, would now rather not have a 'full invisibility' cloak at all, even for my favourite class which would obviously be massively to my advantage. Also (I should have said this in the OP): We don't have nuclear weapons in games like DUST for the simple reason it would be far too easy to abuse, so the argument that real 'cloaking' devices exist now (which is true in a prototype, rather primitive sense) means they should be in game and for all classes, won't wash with me. There has to be a line between what is actually possible and what is going to completely ruin the game. CCP needs to think about this one very carefully.
Decasor The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 47	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:00:00 - [5] - Quote Raxsus Lannister wrote: I kinda like the PS2 idea of cloaking. limit it to scouts or make it only viable on scouts(scan precision/dampening blah blah), but I was really hoping for a Ghost in The Shell style of cloaking where certain elements can disrupt it such as moving to fast, stepping in water, getting shot etc etc. or completely negating it with an EMP/Flux for the team or having an upgraded visor making it easier to see cloaked enemies for yourself. Very good points, if they must implement a typical Sci-fi cloak at all, they need to strongly consider that.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 400	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:16:00 - [6] - Quote cloaking should be like Tribes cloaking your not fully invisible light kinda reflex off of you and if you get shot you show up on the map and turn a bright white.
Misses Trickster Industrial removal service 7	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:22:00 - [7] - Quote Cloaking for scouts, we already have a working mechanic for that from eve No cloaking while your being looked at (would be hard to programm but thats ccps problem) No cloaking while being shot or hit from aoe Low ehp on the cloaking light suit And if your still worried hire 3 HMG heavys to spray the area in front of you.. or try picking up 1 of those nifty target scanners
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 788	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:48:00 - [8] - Quote Invisibility cloaks work. KZ, PS, among others. They do what they were intended to do. LOSING YOUR AFTER YOU DYE IS NOT REASON ENOUGH TO GIMP DUST FURTHER AWAY THAN MOST FPS. It's the one thing that makes dust unique, in that you lose your stuff, but it's also the cause of more than normal QQ. Simple solution to cloak is your can't fire without breaking your cloak. and it takes a bit to recharge. "but who ever he first fires on will die. with out a fighting chance!" Listen up lads. I've been a shot gun scout since day one. and play the role to a T. Once I spotted you, YOU WILL DIE. You won't see me coming. but that's fine, cause it was meant to happen. I've now gone proto swarms as well. That sniper at the edge of the red line protecting your tank? I've already killed him. Now I'm watching your back, MR tank. BUT IT MEANS I'M DOING MY ROLE. Hence I'm being very careful not to die. So I'll never go 20-0 in a game. Most 12-0. Is that game breaking? compared to the ar guy that goes 53-3?
RuckingFetard Better Hide R Die 481	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:51:00 - [9] - Quote Cloaking increases your profile db. So, scanners can be used to hunt down chameleons
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 1189	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:56:00 - [10] - Quote To be honest, if someone is firing at me before I'm firing at them, it's because they're not in my field of vision anyway. So I'll have to check the minimap, turn to their position, find the enemy's exact position, deduce whether I should shoot back or find cover, then act. So it won't be much different for cloaked enemies, except I can't see them but for the dot on the minimap. What I'm saying is, if we give scouts invisibility but no passive or TACNET invisibility, it'll be pretty balanced. What would could also do is create variants of the active scanner which DON'T show enemies on the minimap, and instead outline enemies on-screen, even if invisible. Then, add a mechanic where if someone that is cloaked is shot, the cloak is disabled and their dropsuit is paralysed for a few seconds. So even if someone invisible begins shooting you, if you whip around spraying, chances are you'll catch them with a bullet, and easily finish them as they're unable to move.

Surt gods end Demon Ronin 788	Posted - 2013.08.15 11:58:00 - [11] - Quote RuckingFetard wrote: Cloaking increases your profile db. So, scanners can be used to hunt down chameleons There is another option. tho for those that do whine about getting OHK by the sneaky scout. I'm surprised at how no know uses the scanner. But QQ at getting killed by the stealth scout that is.. wait for it.... trying to be stealth.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 202	Posted - 2013.08.15 12:49:00 - [12] - Quote With enough profile dampening, doesn't that already negate the chevron on the radar map? We already have 'cloaking' to some degree, at least in terms of being cloaked from the TAC-Net (if that's the right term). I like the idea of a very limited cloaking device that increases your db signature (where you would appear as the more faded chevron on the map) while keeping you in a 'Predator' like invisibility. It should break with sprinting, an X amount of movement (5-10 meters) and or when firing a weapon. It should be an assassination tool to be able to ambush the enemy. Active scanners should have a disruption capability, negating the cloak if they can penetrate the db while a flux grenade will simply negate it entirely. I've just really started to learn how to be more stealthy on my scout, using nothing but pistols and knives. It's difficult, especially considering if I don't even know if the precision, dampening or scan radius mechanics work correctly. Some people say they do, others that they don't. I'm not sure what scouts 'need' to be more combat viable. I almost feel more scout like when I'm running my Minnie Logi.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 347	Posted - 2013.08.15 14:59:00 - [13] - Quote Metal gear solid 4 had a cool cloaking, when you lie still, your suit morphs with the environment. Or have a Harry Potter cloak where you can walk with that thing on and you have that fuzzy vision knowing you are cloaked, maybe we can even sprint. If I can activate the cloak it will feel more "pro" because you have to choose when you want it on. It would be cool if when we are still, it will be hard for enemies that don't have precision mods to spot you. The enemy will have to drop a damage mod or get stabbed in the back. There needs to be great counters or else ppl will cry!
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 135	Posted - 2013.08.15 15:20:00 - [14] - Quote yes i do like how when cloaked no chevron apears and scan precision comes in play. Although i was hoping that cloak would drastically reduce scan profile and we would be transparent like Crysis 3 where a trained eye could see cloaked players but not too noticeable. I also think scanners should light up cloaked players not just on the radar but give them a breif glow. edit: also it should be scouts only because the other classes would be more effective at it since they dont have low hp, have more cpu and pg, while also being cheaper then a scout suit.
Chris F2112 187. 312	Posted - 2013.08.15 15:53:00 - [15] - Quote I like the idea of throwing down a cloaking device and hiding everyone in the spherical cloaking area from sight. Maybe have a slight shimmer around the area to denote that it's being cloaked. If you are inside the cloaking area you can see everyone inside and outside.
Decasor The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2013.08.15 20:41:00 - [16] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: With enough profile dampening, doesn't that already negate the chevron on the radar map? We already have 'cloaking' to some degree, at least in terms of being cloaked from the TAC-Net (if that's the right term). I like the idea of a very limited cloaking device that increases your db signature (where you would appear as the more faded chevron on the map) while keeping you in a 'Predator' like invisibility. It should break with sprinting, an X amount of movement (5-10 meters) and or when firing a weapon. It should be an assassination tool to be able to ambush the enemy. Active scanners should have a disruption capability, negating the cloak if they can penetrate the db while a flux grenade will simply negate it entirely. I've just really started to learn how to be more stealthy on my scout, using nothing but pistols and knives. It's difficult, especially considering if I don't even know if the precision, dampening or scan radius mechanics work correctly. Some people say they do, others that they don't. I'm not sure what scouts 'need' to be more combat viable. I almost feel more scout like when I'm running my Minnie Logi. This is exactly the problem, CCP is very 'cautious' about telling us how many mechanics, especially sig damping, actually work. From personal experience, I have seen this happen, however i'm sure from dev comments it was actually a bug, with damping only really supposed to affect how people appear in passive/active scanning. However, while a bug, it was near perfect to what cloaking should be imo.Maybe a slightly better camo in addition?


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