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Toby Flenderson
research lab
The Superpowers
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 05:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems very simple to me...
Topic: Prototype gear. Use or don't use?
Use whatever you want, whenever you want or however frequently you want to. If you earn it then you deserve to be rewarded for your grinding. There is no logical argument against this IMO.
Topic: Matchmaking: How do we fix the "proto-stomping problem"?
Easiest thing I can think of is to allow a filter in your search preferences that allows you to enter games with STD, ADV, or prototype equipment. For example, if you just graduate academy then choose STD so that you only play with people using STD equipment. This is fair to blueberries and veterans and would even the playing field pretty quickly I think.
I think the problem is people mix up the two topics and argue on different grounds. Is it really this easy to fix or am I just forgetting some embarrassingly obvious detail that makes this unfair? |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
The Superpowers
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:
Earn your stripes you say?
You got you're mega amounts of SP when everybody had similar amounts of SP. You, have never played a protostomp on the receiving end.
I think there is something to this argument but it shouldn't completely negate the fact that those with protogear did have to earn it, even if it was easier to earn back when everyone was first starting. I wouldn't say it's unfair but I would say those who may throw the "earn your stripes" argument around should be aware that it isn't nearly as impressive to earn them in the closed beta rather than in uprising.
This is another issue that seems easily fixed (or at least improved) by a universal SP cap. All the people from the beta need to do is cap on a weekly basis to permanently be millions of SP ahead of new players. It's not exactly practical to say that one could "catch up" but it would at least remove the impossibility of leveling the playing field.
I am aware that this would allow those from the closed beta not yet at the universal cap to level up even faster until the reach the cap. Still, I think this is more fair than letting them reign supreme forever just because they started earlier and not because they played more.
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Toby Flenderson
research lab
The Superpowers
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Taeryn Frost wrote:I don't understand why everyone seems so concerned about new guys quitting. None of you faced proto or overwhelming odds when you began? I sure as f*** did.
From what I'm reading the consensus seems to be that the bar should be forever low, that way anyone who wants to stroll into Dust can be as good as everyone else. Da fuq
This is why I posted on this thread. I really think it's not that people want the bars lowered, they just want a way to play with people on their level. This does not mean take protos away from those who have them, but develop a matchmaking system that does not put recent academy graduates with less than 1 million SP against people with 10-15 million SP. It's not about lowering the bar, it's about giving people a chance to enjoy the game without facing the best players on a regular basis.
What I don't get is why those with proto equipment get so defensive about their playing style. In general they are at a great advantage and seem to get upset when people acknowledge that playing against them is a mismatch (i believe someone called it punishment?). Regardless, I'm really relieved to see that some people from the big corps like Tallen enjoy the test of skill rather than hazing new players with proto gear. Hats off to you sirs. Good to know I can actually compete with some of you vets in pub matches and not wonder if it was just the suit that beat me. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
The Superpowers
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Taeryn Frost wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:Taeryn Frost wrote:I don't understand why everyone seems so concerned about new guys quitting. None of you faced proto or overwhelming odds when you began? I sure as f*** did.
From what I'm reading the consensus seems to be that the bar should be forever low, that way anyone who wants to stroll into Dust can be as good as everyone else. Da fuq This is why I posted on this thread. I really think it's not that people want the bars lowered, they just want a way to play with people on their level. This does not mean take protos away from those who have them, but develop a matchmaking system that does not put recent academy graduates with less than 1 million SP against people with 10-15 million SP. It's not about lowering the bar, it's about giving people a chance to enjoy the game without facing the best players on a regular basis. What I don't get is why those with proto equipment get so defensive about their playing style. In general they are at a great advantage and seem to get upset when people acknowledge that playing against them is a mismatch (i believe someone called it punishment?). Regardless, I'm really relieved to see that some people from the big corps like Tallen enjoy the test of skill rather than hazing new players with proto gear. Hats off to you sirs. Good to know I can actually compete with some of you vets in pub matches and not wonder if it was just the suit that beat me. I don't think playing against someone in a proto suit is a mismatch only because I've lost proto suits against militia and I've taken out proto suits in militia. Is it an advantage? Hell yes. I don't go into a fight looking to be disadvantaged. I shoot people in the back if I can. I out range them. Out damage them. This whole idea of a fair fight with tanks, heavy suits with miniguns and weapons with vastly different damage profiles seems asinine. This isn't the wild west where we walk 10 paces and shoot each other. We don't line up and take shots at each other like its World War I. The goal is to eliminate the enemy, period. I can't even tell a new player from a vet in militia, should I stop and ask before shooting them? I agree about the matchmaking needing to be adjusted, but as far as I'm aware, that system is being developed currently. Until then all the threads about the subject don't do anything. Finally, since when does being in a proto suit mean you won't get stomped by the other team? I guess I'm playing a different game because having a proto suit hasn't stopped me from being on the receiving end of a well run corp stomp.
I should've been more specific. You're right, it's possible to kill protos with militia gear. It's possible to stomp a squad of protos with a militia squad. I have probably used less than 30 prototype suits in pub matches but I've killed hundreds probably. In general though this rarely ever happens. This is what I mean by a mismatch. I understand that playing tactically can be more useful than a powerful suit but when two people turn a corner I'd be willing to bet 90% of the time the proto will beat the militia.
As far as the different roles different suits play, I think that's my favorite part of the game. I like that a scout can take out a heavy if they utilize the speed and stealth. I also like seeing an HMG take out 3 medium suits in a choke point. But for the most part I think that people complaining about prototype gear generally mean the medium suits, or at least I do. There may be 3 or 4 heavies on the proto stomping team but they are usually avoidable. It's the proto assault/logis that are dangerous and hard to avoid.
I don't get the wild west part and don't see anything in my posts that have suggested asking people how long they've played.
I'm glad to see that CCP is doing something about matchmaking, but my main reason for posting is described in my first post about the two types of arguments going on about this subject.
From what I understand, proto stomping is the term used to describe a squad or team that uses proto gear in pub matches against people who can't afford it. Basically using their equipment to do the fighting for them. I understand that some corps would still kick my ass in a pub match based on skill but other times I wonder. Of course people using proto suits are not protected from other protos. There is no longer a clear advantage.
You seem to have taken away from my post that I believe protos are invincible and unbeatable. No on is invincible and no one is unbeatable. I am merely acknowledging that people that don't have/can't afford proto gear being placed against those who do/have proto gear need to be much better/luckier to win a gun fight to compensate for the mismatch. This mismatch removes the challenge for those with the advantage and thus the test of skill is lost IMO.
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