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Nonya Bizznizz
DUST University
Ivy League
25
   |
Posted - 2013.08.11 04:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Today, after updating DUST from my short vacation from it, I created a new alt character who was going to be my sweet little Minja. It was supposed to be skilling into SMGs, Shottys, Uplinks, speed/stamina mods, and dabble into nano circuitry and armor reps for when my shields are down. I just created my character and proceeded into my first Academy match. I earned a reasonable amount of WP, about 650 if memory serves, and after some skill purchases and buying more militia gear from the market, I was ready to join another match. I was surprised to see that it no longer put me in Academy games and into the regular playlist.
Infuriated and confused, I quit the game after being slaughtered by Proto and Advanced gear about 20 times while trying to place down uplinks and hives for my team. I tried again, thinking it was some sort of bug, but the same thing happened over and over. I resorted to looking at the patch notes for the latest version and sure enough I see and I quote;
"New players are automatically placed into Battle Academy with other new players, using the Domination game mode. You will graduate from the Academy after you accumulate 400 total warpoints."
Does anyone else find this strange? New players or new alts who have half of a mind to shoot the reds, stick with the blues, and hack the yellow will immediately acquire 400 warpoints within their first 2-3 matches. I propose that either this WP graduation limit thing to be increased to 4,000 or to have a second stage to the new player experience other than the Academy. Any player who has gotten to 400 WP in the Academy will probably still have mostly militia items and mods while everyone else in the Advanced and Prototype stages of the game. |
Queen of Uranus
Dust514 Forum Trolls
36
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 04:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Biomass your character. Show CCP how people "Adapt" to stupidity. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
2563
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 04:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Read the sticky. I'll TL;DR it for ya:
The current 400 WP academy is part of an ongoing experiment. CCP found that most new players score on average 100 WP per match, so 400 WP would give them 3-4 matches before going into the real world.
CCP is testing different setups to see which one works best. If you recall, we had 8v8 Ambush maps last week. This week, it's 400 WP 16v16 Domination. They're jumping between different "optimizations", collecting data, then moving on to the next in an effort to improve the new player experience. |
Nonya Bizznizz
DUST University
Ivy League
25
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 04:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Read the sticky. I'll TL;DR it for ya:
The current 400 WP academy is part of an ongoing experiment. CCP found that most new players score on average 100 WP per match, so 400 WP would give them 3-4 matches before going into the real world.
CCP is testing different setups to see which one works best. If you recall, we had 8v8 Ambush maps last week. This week, it's 400 WP 16v16 Domination. They're jumping between different "optimizations", collecting data, then moving on to the next in an effort to improve the new player experience.
Thank you for the information. This makes a lot more sense now that you explained it to me,however slowly it may be until the system is perfect.
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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
2563
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nonya Bizznizz wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Read the sticky. I'll TL;DR it for ya:
The current 400 WP academy is part of an ongoing experiment. CCP found that most new players score on average 100 WP per match, so 400 WP would give them 3-4 matches before going into the real world.
CCP is testing different setups to see which one works best. If you recall, we had 8v8 Ambush maps last week. This week, it's 400 WP 16v16 Domination. They're jumping between different "optimizations", collecting data, then moving on to the next in an effort to improve the new player experience. Thank you for the information. This makes a lot more sense now that you explained it to me,however slowly it may be until the system is perfect.
No worries bro. Here's a link to the actual dev post if you're interested in more info. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7135
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
What TAFP said, the experiments should start making sense by next week on how they're using the data. |
Brolaire of Asstoria
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is where I know none of the Devs really play this...
There is no way on any plane of existence in any reality
would anyone believe that after 4 games a new player
would be able to take on the proto and advance heads
running amok in here....
Bad start to the experiment... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7135
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Brolaire of Asstoria wrote:This is where I know none of the Devs really play this...
There is no way on any plane of existence in any reality
would anyone believe that after 4 games a new player
would be able to take on the proto and advance heads
running amok in here....
Bad start to the experiment...
Wrong
Experiment 1
20,000 WP / 2 Million SP 'WICF', 16 v 16, normal map rotation
Experiment 2
20,000 WP / 2 Million SP "WICF" 8v8, small map rotation, ambush only.
Experiment 3
400 WP, ??? SP, 16 vs 16, Domination map mod.
Experiment 4
is next week. |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dude, I've been raving about this all week |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers
EoN.
696
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
next week:
You graduate after moving 100 meters. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7135
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:next week:
You graduate after moving 100 meters.
Lol
Time for something serious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI |
BARDAS
DUST University
Ivy League
278
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 06:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Academy should be until 2 million SP and take place in Skirmish only. Perhaps 8 vs 8 on a smaller map if they must tweak something but in no way shape or form should people be just thrown to the wolves until they manage to get to a point where they can defend themselves somewhat. |
Powerh8er
DIOS EX.
Top Men.
42
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 06:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yea, the duvolle assault rifle only needs to aim at the scout and he dies. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
246
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 06:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Brolaire of Asstoria wrote:This is where I know none of the Devs really play this...
There is no way on any plane of existence in any reality
would anyone believe that after 4 games a new player
would be able to take on the proto and advance heads
running amok in here....
Bad start to the experiment... Wrong Experiment 1 20,000 WP / 2 Million SP 'WICF', 16 v 16, normal map rotation Experiment 2 20,000 WP / 2 Million SP "WICF" 8v8, small map rotation, ambush only. Experiment 3 400 WP, ??? SP, 16 vs 16, Domination map mod. Experiment 4 is next week.
So after clear indications that even the 20k WP was falling short in preparing the sacrifices... err I mean new players for the cutthroat mainstream they still decided to reduce it by fifty times? I am certain there was someone in the chain of events that brought up a concern over the 400 WPs, that man or women needs a promotion.
Oh what horrors will Experiment 4 bring us...
PS I don't know if bringing this up will matter but Battle Academy should be optional up to whatever the cut-off numbers are. |
Amber Dexterus
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 08:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Four matches? This character hit 950 WP in the first match and was sent to the meat grinder.
As I recall, there was no academy for a long time. New characters jumped right into it. When new players started going up against character that had amassed 5m skill points, that really became a problem - the academy was started to cushion that imbalance. (I can't imagine any relevant data being deduced from a 400 WP setting - it's too far out of sync with the other data to be relevant. Besides, equivalent data should still exist from the 'pre-academy' days.)
The other really challenging part about the rude introduction to DUST514, is that there is no chance to build up ISK before getting proto-stomped. Some of the skill books are pricey, given the starting ISK.
The unfortunate new players who started their character during the 400 WP academy, probably won't be playing DUST for long. Although, maybe they could use AURUM gear to level the playing field a little - but then again, it would be wrong to take real money from new players so that they can compete in a F2P game. |
Bettie Boop 2100190003
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
100
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 09:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Experiment 4:
All players have WP and SP reduced to 100 and 1,000,000 respectively.
You wanted a respec, you got it! |
steadyhand amarr
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1056
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 09:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
All it would take is pve mission stepping you through each area leading to a big battle. Like every other freaking shooter |
Hasa Hakira
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 09:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Queen of Uranus wrote:Biomass your character. Show CCP how people "Adapt" to stupidity.
Edit: Academy should last for at least the first couple million SP.
*BANE voice* You merly adopted stupidity , CCP were BORN in it  |
Hasa Hakira
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 09:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Experiment 4 - Allow PROTO players from the other brackets to randomly apear in the Acadamy matches so that the new players can get used to beeing sacrificed over and over again  |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7137
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 09:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well maybe if you saw the numbers, you too would be baffled what is to blame for what.
Unfortunately they only confirmed my suspicions of what was going on, after all those who are affected the most will NEVER have a chance to post here. |
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Lazy Scumbag
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 10:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:next week:
You graduate after moving 100 meters.
The fact that the logic behind the 400 sp graduation was not given makes me wonder. I think starting sp should be at least five to ten times what it is now. Basic fits have no benefit outside of ISK management. Maybe this will help some new players work on their tactics, but most will just quit. |
Lazy Scumbag
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 10:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:Yea, the duvolle assault rifle only needs to aim at the scout and he dies.
Have had some eerily easy matches lately; and I don't run proto anything. |
Jade Hasegawa
Intrepidus XI
EoN.
40
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
When I quit in the open beta I dont think there was the academy, when I came back and joined the 1st corp (still with same ppl but we changed things around a bit) I had I thnk 8k WP from the beta maybe 10k. Never went to academy as I was playing with my corp mates, this nearly rage quit me from the game, one of the captains took me to one side talked me through it and then gave me ISK from CORP funds so I could resupply and start having fun.
That was just before CCP decided to take cash off players and made me 2.5 million negative so evidently they have ppl working analysis who cannot read numbers at all, as I was told this was because I had money that I should not have earned and as such they had taken it off me, got it back eventually ofc but what a joke!
CCP need to do a couple of things to fix the game
1) Play it! See what happens in each game mode so they can see for themselves what is going on
2) Put OMS and regular abmush separate once again for Stachkos sake!
3) Stop panic nerfing everything just because eve1 comes here whining as they got wrecked by something, the only gun that ever annoyed me was the pre nerf flaylock and that wasnot due to its power, as the way ppl relied on the blast rather then aiming it.
4)Maybe send out an email to the players with a survey askign what they feel about the game
5) New content soon
6)FIx the bugs
7)Fix the scout suits, all those poor sods who die just because someone looks at them!
8) Beofre doing anything, make sure its thought through and not a knee jerk reaction to all the crying and whining, thats the mistake DICE made on BF3 by making it more like COC just to try and steal market share. Didn't help that EA told them what to do there, just as Sony forced CCP to come out of beta too soon
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IIphalanxII
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
do you treat new players like experiments??
imagine that a pro DUST player is being massacred by protos and advanced suits a noob player will sit and wait till his good???
i believe that you don't understand how console gamers think... it is smth like:
I DON'T LIKE THIS *deletes game
the only reason that dust is still alive is because console players aren't buying anything at all cause in november there will be huge money going for next gen consoles ang gaming! heck i am one of the most fanatic FPS gamers and i still play here and there the games called DUST....
now you will say: WHY ARE YOU STILL PLAYING AND WRITING ON THE FORUMS???
it's because i always was part of the community i played and always state my mind on what is good and what is bad...after november i will just delete myself to DUST.. till then it is better for me crying to CCP about fixing the *it was a good idea game* then doing nothing.
P.S. i wonder if the dust community is composed only by EVE players..... |
Beld Errmon
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
776
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
They need to do some experiments with splitting squads away from solo players, a dude in militia gear can take down a proto guy, but surviving 6 of them running together on comms, not a chance, many matches you can pretty much tell the outcome based on whether there is a squad on either side.
The match maker compounds this more by putting a squad in a match first, grabbing 7 solo players then throwing another squad on the already squaded side, outcome is usually very predictable and not fun for anyone.
*edit* lol at another ****-sucker trying to make eve players the scapegoat for developers mistakes. |
IIphalanxII
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 12:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:
*edit* lol at another ****-sucker trying to make eve players the scapegoat for developers mistakes.
dude DUST needs some BASICS and in the requests there are VIRUSES, VEHICLE CAPACITORS, CORPORATE WAREHOUSE, FLAMETHROWERS.
this game needs the BASICS not IDEAS anymore. i can't believe the developers are so stupid as too watch these when they have core related problems.
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Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
233
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 12:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:All it would take is pve mission stepping you through each area leading to a big battle. Like every other freaking shooter
fairly much this, *looks at you EvE tutorials*
and Then they get put into Academy Matches.
the only saving grace is that new players will mostly have no idea that they are being treated as mere data collection tools :P
PS: i've also had more then my fair share of wtf battles... taking on 4-5 newberries (albeit in a tanked out gallente adv Logibro).
Its good that newberries know to go for the points, its bad they don't have any idea how underpowered they are against someone with most of the core suit skills.
Really need that tutorial, perhaps the PvE department could run up the mission structures as practice for when they are finally allowed to publish ... anything :P
Fitting
Armor and tanking
Shield and tanking
Stamina
Ammo and "ammo" types against shield and armor
Stealth, Movement, Detection and Flanking tactics.
tutes should also focus the lessons thru the:
Battle Roles by suit type, along with free suits and weapons.
Vehicles, along with a free LAV, HAV and DS
Each Tutorial may need more than one mission depending. Only the most basic AI is needed as the newberries should be booted to Academy after completing the tutorial... it would be a good place to start testing drone AI, perhaps repurposed medbots would serve the lore and RP of the clone soldier. |
R F Gyro
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
459
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 17:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:All it would take is pve mission stepping you through each area leading to a big battle. Like every other freaking shooter
Agreed. And proper matchmaking as well, so newbs aren't thrown into battle againts protovets.
Any suggestions what they should do while building this though?
They can tweak the WP threshold. team sizes and battle rotation, so what values should they use? |
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