DUST Search - Crooks Cheats Plunderers

Seymor Krelborn wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Seymor Krelborn wrote:

EULA be damned!...if they change something we spent money for we should not have to jump through hoops... they should be proactive...period... sorry if I sound irate, but I think hiding behind the EULA is cowardice, and I think a consumer defending a company over there own money is foolish...

Stomp all you want. It won't change anything. The entire gaming industry has been doing this for a very long time and it's all perfectly legal.

Im not stomping, and I resent the notion.... change comes from standing up and saying "no more!"

people throughout history have changed common practices by saying something, and doing something about it...it use to be legal to beat your wife, or own slaves, or do cocain!... it isn't anymore because people said "no more!" and I don't know if your in the loop, but there are huge legal battles going on now about consumer rights with digital products... do you want your rights? or are you ok with being a chump to big business?


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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3535	Posted - 2013.08.11 15:15:00 - [1] - Quote @Seymor Please excuse a few of the trolls you may see here. As for the others, some of them missed the point. I get your point and all, but you are also the one that missed the point as did everyone else on the reason why AURUM items get changed every so often. The most important (practically the most critical) point of these changes is that CCP originally promised since Fanfest 2013 and E3 2012-2013 is that Dust 514 will never have Pay-to-Win items. Pay-to-Win, as defined by industry standards, is an unfair advantage one player gains over a another via the purchase of an in-game item with actual cash while the in-game item in question has no free equivalent to match it. This practically means that if the item can't be accessed with anything other than cash and it gives you an unfair advantage, then it's pay-to-win. CCP wanted to introduce a microtransaction-based system that allows players to "side-grade" rather than "upgrade" with cash (such as the Raven Suits that you mentioned) or allow players early access to an item that is one tier away from being trained to without introducing any pay-to-win scenario. Pay-to-win carries a very bad stigma throughout the gaming industry and it's comething CCP is trying to avoid. After all, CCP did promise to everyone around the world that there will be NO pay-to-win in this game. I'm not sure if you were around or not, the entire forum was abuzz with thread after thread of people complaining that AURUM items like certain grenades, maybe a submachine gun like the 'Toxin' and some of the suits from the early days of Dust incidentally had a pay-to-win potential and almost all of us demanded them to be fixed so that any pay-to-win scenario can be eliminated. If you saw one of the AUR items changed recently, it's because CCP saw that there was a pay-to-win potential with the item and it needed to be corrected. More than likely some other player saw the problem and has already reported it to CCP demanding a change. Now comes the real question. Why avoid the pay-to-win scenario with microtransactions? It's because pay-to-win carries with it a very nasty stigma that many companies try to avoid. An increasingly large number of players are starting to become repulsed by pay-to-win and therefore are having a higher tendency of walking out on a game that has this stigma and therefore is becomes bad business for the game. Surprisingly World of Tanks and World of Warplanes is doing just fine despite the obvious pay-to-win that it has, but it seems the developers had intended for pay-to-win to occur. Overall, the changes you are witnessing are the result of a pay-to-win potential that was discovered that needed to be correct in order for CCP to keep its promise of "no pay-to-win" in Dust. Now, if the change is cosmetic such a paint job, then maybe I support your position. But if your complaint is about changes in stats, then you missed the point. I hope I cleared things up for you here.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3536	Posted - 2013.08.11 16:41:00 - [2] - Quote Bump
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3539	Posted - 2013.08.11 19:24:00 - [3] - Quote @Seymor You are treating the AURUM items (dropsuits, vehicles, weapons, and modules) as if they are your property. According to the EULA that you agreed to before playing, any item such as the dropsuits, vehicles, modules and weapons are property of CCP Games Inc. and therefore they have a right to make changes accordingly if needed. I'm not trying to convince you or change your mind here, but I am letting you know the truth that everyone else already knew about for ten years in regards to what CCP controls. CCP even has the right to confiscate a player's in-game property in both Dust and Eve Online if they find that they are involved in or are committing illegal activities such as RMT and BOTTING. Nothing you have in your hangar is yours in terms of legal property. It's yours in terms of gameplay, but nothing else. There is nothing else to say about it really. Sorry I can't give you any good news or hope. That's just the way it is and I'm certain other game companies do the same thing. I have played Halo since 2004 and have seen many changes made to the games even to the current titles. Take Halo 4 as an example. I have spent $60 getting that game and enjoyed using the binary rifle because of it's ability to take out almost every vehicle in 3 shots or less. But then came the weekly update and the binary rifle got nerfed. This is just like how it was with Halo 2 with the dual-wielding needlers (especially dual-wielding a needler and a pistol) before an update came along that nerfed it. Halo 3 didn't even come out yet during that time. Has Microsoft reimbursed me for the changes because I have spent $60 for the game only to see it get changed? No. They didn't. And this is a multi-billion dollar company we are talking here.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3539	Posted - 2013.08.11 19:54:00 - [4] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: You can be compensated. Read the EULA. It will still be at their discretion though. Originally, during open beta, we were expected to get a refund of all the AURUM Blueprint Originals (BPOs) as CCP wanted to clear our assets and stuff in preparation for the official release. But then word broke out that doing so will enable certain players to unexpectedly gain ludicrous amounts of AURUM in their wallets when they didn't spend that much to begin with. What happened was that during closed beta, the AUR price of the BPOs were dirt cheap to the point that a 40,000 AUR merc pack would let you buy an entire stockpile of BPOs (one of each at the very least). Some players even went as far as buying over a hundred units of each unique BPO knowing that all they have to do is wait for the market to open up so as to sell it for ISK to other players. BPOs for modules and weapons at the time were like 100 AUR a piece. Then came open beta when the price of the AUR BPOs were jacked up to about 1,200 AUR (give or take 100). Then came the news from CCP that they were going to remove the BPOs as part of an official launch of Dust (except for the BPOs that came in a merc pack) while the players get a refund of the current value of the BPOs (the jacked up prices). Someone from within the community then posted a thread calculating that he would gain between 500,000 and 1,000,000 AURUM as extra because the large stockpile of BPOs that he has were bought back when BPOs were only 100 AUR a piece. As a result, CCP decided to just let everyone keep their BPOs (all of them) and therefore not reimburse anyone. It turned out that having such an influx of AUR magically appearing without more money involved was too problematic.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3539	Posted - 2013.08.11 19:55:00 - [5] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: EULA be damned!...if they change something we spent money for we should not have to jump through hoops... they should be proactive...period... sorry if I sound irate, but I think hiding behind the EULA is cowardice, and I think a consumer defending a company over there own money is foolish... Stomp all you want. It won't change anything. The entire gaming industry has been doing this for a very long time and it's all perfectly legal.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3539	Posted - 2013.08.11 20:03:00 - [6] - Quote PS: Morality takes back seat in most industries. It's been like this since the industrial revolution. It don't matter it's right or wrong. If it's legal, people will do it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3539	Posted - 2013.08.11 20:17:00 - [7] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: EULA be damned!...if they change something we spent money for we should not have to jump through hoops... they should be proactive...period... sorry if I sound irate, but I think hiding behind the EULA is cowardice, and I think a consumer defending a company over there own money is foolish... Stomp all you want. It won't change anything. The entire gaming industry has been doing this for a very long time and it's all perfectly legal. Im not stomping, and I resent the notion.... change comes from standing up and saying "no more!" people throughout history have changed common practices by saying something, and doing something about it...it use to be legal to beat your wife, or own slaves, or do cocain!... it isn't anymore because people said "no more!" and I don't know if your in the loop, but there are huge legal battles going on now about consumer rights with digital products... do you want your rights? or are you ok with being a chump to big business? People thought Bill Gates and Steve Jobs helped improve the computer and music industry as a whole. They did. But now we see them as our enemy. Microsoft dominates two thirds of the PC market and are working with Apple to curb stomp any competitor from undermining their bottom line by being patent trolls. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3540	Posted - 2013.08.11 20:26:00 - [8] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: and absolute power corrupts absolutely... But it rocks absolutely too.