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Six Kin Salvador
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
I played a PC match yesterday. And wow, I got destroyed the second match. I'm willing to be that the majority of you, who think the Assault Rifle is in a good place right now, probably play Instant battle 99% of the time, like me. The problem here is that the random players (and also thanks to 400wp debacle) are pretty terrible and the Assault Rifle is easy to ignore. I'm an Amarr Assault and specced into amarr ****, so to me, the Assault Rifle was no more different than the Scrambler Rifle. Just like some people are terrible with SRs, some people are terrible with Assault Rifles. Some people are really good with SRs, some people are good with Assault Rifles.
That's what I USED to think. Until **** hit the fan.
I played my first couple of competitive matches yesterday. The first game, I hardly died to assault rifles, died a few times to them but I felt all my deaths during the first match was fair. I think I went 14 kills and 7 or 9 deaths or something against Teamplayers.
Then the second match started and WTF.... Nearly every person I personally ran into had Assault Rifles and I must have died 10 or 12 times to Assault Rifles alone. This DEFINITELY put Assault Rifles on my radar. These things were inescapable. So I began thinking....
Casual vs Competitive (READ: kids who can't aim vs talented shooters)
The Assault Rifle cannot exist as it currently. No matter how you balance the weapon, it will either ruin competitive matches, or it will cease to become relevant at all even in casual matches. You see, when a competitive player uses non-Area of effect weapons (ARS, SMG, Semi AUTO rifles) against another, there are two competitions going on in the duel
1) Who can deal the most damage, the fastest 2) Who can avoid the most damage
When you give one of these very skilled players a Assault, guess what happens? He can't miss. His helpless opponent cannot dodge, strafe, run for cover at all. He has essentially denied the helpless man the "2) Who can avoid the most damage" rule of this game. ALSO, he has crippled the helpless man's ability to just "stand his ground" and out DPS the scrambler rifle because the AR is a hit-scan weapon and he only has to swipe it across the enemy for a kill. There is no reason to use any other weapon in a competitive match, (actually I take that back there needs to be a Forge gun sniping objectives). I try and go the High DPS route with my proficiency lvl 5, 2 cmplx dmg mods, charge shot imperial scrambler rifle, but all the DPS is meaningless in a duel with Assault Rifles. I could kill other suits/guns just fine if I got a bead on my opponent fast enough. But those ARs were impossible.
B-B-But Assault Rifles Takes Skill!
If you think the Assault Rifle takes a lot of skill to master, then you are probably really bad at aiming and shooting. Play instant battle and you will see how terrible Assault Rifle users are. Play PC and see how devastating Assault Rifles are.
The difference is that the Assault Rifles allow bad players (who would have terrible aiming) to, thanks to hitscan beam swiping, have "decent" aiming. These bad players can now complete with SRs and other weapons in casual public matches.
on the other hand...
ARs allow skilled players (who can aim well consistently) to have flawless aiming. Because of the hitscan, the damage per high rof, the damage, and the large magazine... the AR will out DPS anything mid/close-mid-mid/long (AKA SR territory) range.
So you still think the AR takes skill? Because of the projectile and time of flight? That's okay. Not trying to offend you or anything, but if you think an "easy-mode-hitscan-swipe-black-hole-for-anything-instakiller" takes skill, if it took you weeks to master the ARs hitscan swipe....
Conclusion
...then you are a bad player. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
829
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC. |
Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
515
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hahahahahahhaha!!!
OMFG, this made me lol hard.
+1 OP |
Six Kin Salvador
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC.
btw.. lvl 3 prof MD user It can be done with anything. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Six Kin Salvador wrote:I played a PC match yesterday. And wow, I got destroyed the second match. I'm willing to be that the majority of you, who think the Assault Rifle is in a good place right now, probably play Instant battle 99% of the time, like me. The problem here is that the random players (and also thanks to 400wp debacle) are pretty terrible and the Assault Rifle is easy to ignore. I'm an Amarr Assault and specced into amarr ****, so to me, the Assault Rifle was no more different than the Scrambler Rifle. Just like some people are terrible with SRs, some people are terrible with Assault Rifles. Some people are really good with SRs, some people are good with Assault Rifles.
That's what I USED to think. Until **** hit the fan.
I played my first couple of competitive matches yesterday. The first game, I hardly died to assault rifles, died a few times to them but I felt all my deaths during the first match was fair. I think I went 14 kills and 7 or 9 deaths or something against Teamplayers.
Then the second match started and WTF.... Nearly every person I personally ran into had Assault Rifles and I must have died 10 or 12 times to Assault Rifles alone. This DEFINITELY put Assault Rifles on my radar. These things were inescapable. So I began thinking....
Casual vs Competitive (READ: kids who can't aim vs talented shooters)
The Assault Rifle cannot exist as it currently. No matter how you balance the weapon, it will either ruin competitive matches, or it will cease to become relevant at all even in casual matches. You see, when a competitive player uses non-Area of effect weapons (ARS, SMG, Semi AUTO rifles) against another, there are two competitions going on in the duel
1) Who can deal the most damage, the fastest 2) Who can avoid the most damage
When you give one of these very skilled players a Assault, guess what happens? He can't miss. His helpless opponent cannot dodge, strafe, run for cover at all. He has essentially denied the helpless man the "2) Who can avoid the most damage" rule of this game. ALSO, he has crippled the helpless man's ability to just "stand his ground" and out DPS the scrambler rifle because the AR is a hit-scan weapon and he only has to swipe it across the enemy for a kill. There is no reason to use any other weapon in a competitive match, (actually I take that back there needs to be a Forge gun sniping objectives). I try and go the High DPS route with my proficiency lvl 5, 2 cmplx dmg mods, charge shot imperial scrambler rifle, but all the DPS is meaningless in a duel with Assault Rifles. I could kill other suits/guns just fine if I got a bead on my opponent fast enough. But those ARs were impossible.
B-B-But Assault Rifles Takes Skill!
If you think the Assault Rifle takes a lot of skill to master, then you are probably really bad at aiming and shooting. Play instant battle and you will see how terrible Assault Rifle users are. Play PC and see how devastating Assault Rifles are.
The difference is that the Assault Rifles allow bad players (who would have terrible aiming) to, thanks to hitscan beam swiping, have "decent" aiming. These bad players can now complete with SRs and other weapons in casual public matches.
on the other hand...
ARs allow skilled players (who can aim well consistently) to have flawless aiming. Because of the hitscan, the damage per high rof, the damage, and the large magazine... the AR will out DPS anything mid/close-mid-mid/long (AKA SR territory) range.
So you still think the AR takes skill? That's okay. Not trying to offend you or anything, but if you think an "easy-mode-hitscan-swipe-black-hole-for-anything-instakiller" takes skill, if it took you weeks to master the ARs hitscan swipe....
Conclusion
...then you are a bad player.
awesome :) |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC.
btw.. lvl 3 prof MD user
are ars being spammed a problem too? because i'm really tired of having to carry an ar to be competitive. it's boring. |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
225
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is trollin at it finest. |
BrownEye1129
SVER True Blood
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Point proven, now waiting for a LR thread : ) |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1114
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Epic post. Well done. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
832
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Six Kin Salvador wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC.
btw.. lvl 3 prof MD user It can be done with anything.
sure, but as effective?
if so, why do most of the holders wanting to guarantee clone sales income go with bombarding with MD instead of a scrambler pistol?
If you can tell me why 75% of an entire team in a PC match religiously uses this to secure a battle over any other tactic when all other tactics perform just as well , without saying it is better or more effective.. you win |
|
Six Kin Salvador
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 16:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Six Kin Salvador wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC.
btw.. lvl 3 prof MD user It can be done with anything. sure, but as effective? if so, why do most of the holders wanting to guarantee clone sales income go with bombarding with MD instead of a scrambler pistol? If you can tell me why 75% of an entire team in a PC match religiously uses this to secure a battle over any other tactic when all other tactics perform just as well , without saying it is better or more effective.. you win Hit detection in pc is wonky, while aim assist has been removed entirely. Once aim assist returns and they continue work on hit detection, AR will be absolute king again. Mass drivers were vastly more powerful last build with up to 9 meter explosion radius and more damage than the current standard mass driver. They weren't used like this because ARs were just better, people had aim assist and they would tear the md users apart if they were exposed on the roof or shooting down.
With aim assist off, even the much nerfed and weaker mass drivers of today have become popular in pc because they can almost guarantee damage, not much damage, but some.
A group of tac snipers or forge gunners can remove them from their position and let you get the hack. Vehicles are also good counters. A set of logi-lavs can out pace their damage with remote repair. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
832
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 17:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Six Kin Salvador wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Six Kin Salvador wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC.
btw.. lvl 3 prof MD user It can be done with anything. sure, but as effective? if so, why do most of the holders wanting to guarantee clone sales income go with bombarding with MD instead of a scrambler pistol? If you can tell me why 75% of an entire team in a PC match religiously uses this to secure a battle over any other tactic when all other tactics perform just as well , without saying it is better or more effective.. you win Hit detection in pc is wonky, while aim assist has been removed entirely. Once aim assist returns and they continue work on hit detection, AR will be absolute king again. Mass drivers were vastly more powerful last build with up to 9 meter explosion radius and more damage than the current standard mass driver. They weren't used like this because ARs were just better, people had aim assist and they would tear the md users apart if they were exposed on the roof or shooting down. With aim assist off, even the much nerfed and weaker mass drivers of today have become popular in pc because they can almost guarantee damage, not much damage, but some. A group of tac snipers or forge gunners can remove them from their position and let you get the hack. Vehicles are also good counters. A set of logi-lavs can out pace their damage with remote repair.
oh yes, surely it must be the hit detection. I mean my AR just NEVER hits a damn thing even with all the QQ about them. and aim assits.. aim assist.. wtf, I thought all these pc pros were all like who needs aim assist get gun game types.. must have been wrong.
Sorry, but this answer does not win.
|
BrownEye1129
SVER True Blood
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 17:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Six Kin Salvador wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Six Kin Salvador wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:seriously you fkn dipshits. Admit the MD can be a problem in it's current state while being SPAMMED by protos in unison in PC ( organized battle).
Stop trying to act like it can be done with everything, it is not the case. If it were, you would see a lot more variety in PC.
btw.. lvl 3 prof MD user It can be done with anything. sure, but as effective? if so, why do most of the holders wanting to guarantee clone sales income go with bombarding with MD instead of a scrambler pistol? If you can tell me why 75% of an entire team in a PC match religiously uses this to secure a battle over any other tactic when all other tactics perform just as well , without saying it is better or more effective.. you win Hit detection in pc is wonky, while aim assist has been removed entirely. Once aim assist returns and they continue work on hit detection, AR will be absolute king again. Mass drivers were vastly more powerful last build with up to 9 meter explosion radius and more damage than the current standard mass driver. They weren't used like this because ARs were just better, people had aim assist and they would tear the md users apart if they were exposed on the roof or shooting down. With aim assist off, even the much nerfed and weaker mass drivers of today have become popular in pc because they can almost guarantee damage, not much damage, but some. A group of tac snipers or forge gunners can remove them from their position and let you get the hack. Vehicles are also good counters. A set of logi-lavs can out pace their damage with remote repair. oh yes, surely it must be the hit detection. I mean my AR just NEVER hits a damn thing even with all the QQ about them. and aim assits.. aim assist.. wtf, I thought all these pc pros were all like who needs aim assist get gun game types.. must have been wrong. Sorry, but this answer does not win. How about this one, they have the high ground. Most likely in a compound somewhere. You ever been up there watching a squad close together moving through? Screams someone MD us all please. In a tight area wherever the MD hits, you will take splash damage. Try to fight MD where they have the disadvantage, with range? Catch one in an open field? If you can get above them even better hard to aim the MD UP and kill anything. A skilled MD user will still be able to put up a fight even in a situation that favors their enemy. But that is where skill comes into play and you find out who really knows how to wield a MD. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
834
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 17:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm not talking about going up against a single MD user at all, that is not even close to what I am talking about and neither is your argument. I was asking him why when the match starts and ends in most pc matches where the team wants to keep their clone sales they field 3/4 of team with MD in key places that they can effectively spam and control area.. when he says everything can be just as effective.
I am not bitching about mass drivers in general , hell i'm not really bitching bout them.. I don't even PC normally. I have no problems with them when encountering in pub matches, because you just don't get that level of organization. They are becoming a problem though when you see the effects they have when piled up together.. it gets ugly. What they really need to do though is just work on explosions, it needs a big overhaul on how the dmg works at different ranges from center of blast. Getting rid of camera shake would be good to. |
BrownEye1129
SVER True Blood
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 18:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
You hit he nail on the head. When they are piled together. But that is the MD's intended use isn't it area denial? That is the joy of PC though. If they want to use a tactic like that with MD then you as a competitor have to find a way to over come. Lets look at football for example. We will go with high-school since that is where the biggest differentiation between player skill is. If team A has recievers that the defense can't cover but no running game what is going to happen. Those receivers are men among boys and are going to be great. You're not going to see team A run the ball just because Team B's defense can't counter the receivers. Instead of Team B running man coverage and standing no chance they will start to play zone and work as a team to cover the threats. PC is the same way adapt and overcome play to your advantages not the enemies. Don't blame the competition for using tactics that work for them. You as a competitor need to look for the real problem, maybe your own tactics? Swallow your pride and ego and adjust to the situation. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2899
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 18:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
It takes away any need for specialization. If the regular AR can't fill an anti-infantry role, the tactical AR can.
Seriously, one battle, my laser was being out-ranged by a few ARs. |
Six Kin Salvador
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 19:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It takes away any need for specialization. If the regular AR can't fill an anti-infantry role, the tactical AR can.
Seriously, one battle, my laser was being out-ranged by a few ARs. Exactly |
Lillica Deathdealer
Mango and Friends
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 19:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Six Kin Salvador wrote:I played a PC match yesterday. And wow, I got destroyed the second match. I'm willing to be that the majority of you, who think the Assault Rifle is in a good place right now, probably play Instant battle 99% of the time, like me. The problem here is that the random players (and also thanks to 400wp debacle) are pretty terrible and the Assault Rifle is easy to ignore. I'm an Amarr Assault and specced into amarr ****, so to me, the Assault Rifle was no more different than the Scrambler Rifle. Just like some people are terrible with SRs, some people are terrible with Assault Rifles. Some people are really good with SRs, some people are good with Assault Rifles.
That's what I USED to think. Until **** hit the fan.
I played my first couple of competitive matches yesterday. The first game, I hardly died to assault rifles, died a few times to them but I felt all my deaths during the first match was fair. I think I went 14 kills and 7 or 9 deaths or something against Teamplayers.
Then the second match started and WTF.... Nearly every person I personally ran into had Assault Rifles and I must have died 10 or 12 times to Assault Rifles alone. This DEFINITELY put Assault Rifles on my radar. These things were inescapable. So I began thinking....
Casual vs Competitive (READ: kids who can't aim vs talented shooters)
The Assault Rifle cannot exist as it currently. No matter how you balance the weapon, it will either ruin competitive matches, or it will cease to become relevant at all even in casual matches. You see, when a competitive player uses non-Area of effect weapons (ARS, SMG, Semi AUTO rifles) against another, there are two competitions going on in the duel
1) Who can deal the most damage, the fastest 2) Who can avoid the most damage
When you give one of these very skilled players a Assault, guess what happens? He can't miss. His helpless opponent cannot dodge, strafe, run for cover at all. He has essentially denied the helpless man the "2) Who can avoid the most damage" rule of this game. ALSO, he has crippled the helpless man's ability to just "stand his ground" and out DPS the scrambler rifle because the AR is a hit-scan weapon and he only has to swipe it across the enemy for a kill. There is no reason to use any other weapon in a competitive match, (actually I take that back there needs to be a Forge gun sniping objectives). I try and go the High DPS route with my proficiency lvl 5, 2 cmplx dmg mods, charge shot imperial scrambler rifle, but all the DPS is meaningless in a duel with Assault Rifles. I could kill other suits/guns just fine if I got a bead on my opponent fast enough. But those ARs were impossible.
B-B-But Assault Rifles Takes Skill!
If you think the Assault Rifle takes a lot of skill to master, then you are probably really bad at aiming and shooting. Play instant battle and you will see how terrible Assault Rifle users are. Play PC and see how devastating Assault Rifles are.
The difference is that the Assault Rifles allow bad players (who would have terrible aiming) to, thanks to hitscan beam swiping, have "decent" aiming. These bad players can now complete with SRs and other weapons in casual public matches.
on the other hand...
ARs allow skilled players (who can aim well consistently) to have flawless aiming. Because of the hitscan, the damage per high rof, the damage, and the large magazine... the AR will out DPS anything mid/close-mid-mid/long (AKA SR territory) range.
So you still think the AR takes skill? That's okay. Not trying to offend you or anything, but if you think an "easy-mode-hitscan-swipe-black-hole-for-anything-instakiller" takes skill, if it took you weeks to master the ARs hitscan swipe....
Conclusion
...then you are a bad player.
quoting full post. Because this man deserves it for his forum warrior status. Praise be to him, for he speaks for me, and all other non AR individuals.
...I say individuals because we try to fight against the uniform AR spam despite our lack of combat effectiveness alot of the time. |
Six Kin Salvador
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 20:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Something must be done! |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 20:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Six Kin Salvador wrote:Something must be done! Reduce the clip size to 45 rounds? |
|
Cyrius Li-Moody
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
669
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 20:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Is this a dust copypasta? |
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
83
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 20:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 op |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 20:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
The sad thing is that this is more true than even the originating thread. |
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