Sincere question:

Did you take ARs into a compound, I.e. a CQC area?

Let me rephrase the question:

Did you take mid-range weaponry into a short range confrontation?

lol, we had our dedicated Mass Driver Fiddle, and danny from synergy was m/ding part time. And you went 0/14 the 2nd game, it stuck out or i'd tell you your first match as well I have the pic somewhere. GG.

You come off very smug.

Whose to say that people who arent the best at aiming, or twich reflexes (perhaps older folks not up to par with the younger generationn) shouldnt have weapons that will make the game more enjoyable for them? Just because someone is not skillful with an AR type weapon doesnt mean they are a bad player. Maybe in your limited scope they are. Those players may be great thinkers, tankers, supporters, tacticians, hackers, pilots, defenders... just bad at tracking bunny hopping strafing players.

One might give your post some more credit if you werent so condescending.

-1

Stupid question: wouldn't MD users be completely defenseless against one or two decent snipers?

More of a waste than constantly and ineffectively throwing bodies at the enemy to be repeatedly slaughtered?

Maybe that's the problem?

If the entire enemy team is running MDs, then obviously nobody is left to counter-snipe, and they'd be like fish in a barrell for one or two decent snipers on your team which should, in turn, force them to alter thier tactics, shouldn't it?

(I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, I really am curious about this and why it wouldn't be a reasonable counter tactic in this situation)

Except the only broken mechanics are hit detection and aim assist. Once those are fixed, MD situations you are seeing right now will not be viable anymore.

Did I say they had to clear out the compound completely? No, I didn't.

Only that they do enough damage to force your opponents to change their tactics, then they might not ALL be running MDs, and then your infantry guys might have a chance.

"Fail to see..." or "refuse to see..."?

So what's the difference between you being stomped by point and shoot ARs, and you being stomped by MD users? Especially when the AR has more than double the amount of usage the MD gets?

You and I are pretty much on the same page. I've created several posts about most of those points throughout the feedback forum. The last point I'd like to add is some sort of deterrent to equipment spam. My suggestion to that is to change it so that all equipment has a hard cap of 3 active units per person, and that any new equipment laid down would destroy the first accordingly. This is to prevent the insane uplink/repping nanohive spam on rooftops that every PC match comes down to.

I've become so bored with trying to argue tactics with my corp because it's all the same. Every PC match comes down to two things: (a) get the high ground, (b) spam uplinks. That's the big secret to winning the "strategy" side of PC. After that it just comes down to who can spam AoE weapons the best to clear out the enemy.

last i checked geks will hit you effectively out to 70m. which pretty much makes me think you didn't check anything.

last i checked the splash damage i'm hiting for is 140. what's that, like 5 bullets from a gek? how may rounds a minute do you fire? somebody get me an abacus.

I have to say that after reading this post, PC doesn't sound like a very fun game play experience.... imagining the scenarios that are described in this thread makes me enjoy pub matches all the more where I run across a variety of weapons and play styles..... given the competitive nature it seems like having balance in this game mode is going to be very hard to achieve.

I was of the mind that MD's are fine, but then again I've never experienced an entire co-ordinated squad of them in CQC.

So, there are no effective counters other than engaging attempting to engage in CQC? A squad or two of LR users or snipers would not help clear out the compound (due to cover?). What about distance weapons with some splash damage such as a few rail tanks?

Let me get this straight.

This is your thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101179&find=unread
You main either a scrambler rifle or sniper rifle.
You couldn't deal with mass drivers.
And you think the problem is on their end.

I think the Mass Driver is fine where it is. Not because "Get gud scrub" or "It is hard to use". Because this game needs diversity. If CCP Nerfs this gun into uselessness, that's one more gun that no-one uses anymore. It will all continue to fall into the nerf basket until every gun fires flowers at people.


The Mass Driver is an area denial weapon, So it will clear out places and keep people from getting to them. It shouldn't be touched. Most people hate it because they get killed by it multiple times. That and the fact that some people know how to make it such a beast weapon. A MD with fluxes and damage mods are a sure killer, as it should be.

I wouldn't be too upset if it got a nerf (As in it is less powerful but is still very effective) but that's still the problem. It would still be effective. That's what the MD is, effective. People cry ITS OP because it's effective at what it does, and won't stop crying until it becomes ineffective.


IDK. There isn't a nerf that can satisfy both sides of it. The MDers will be mad if it gets nerfed into hell, the Non- MD users will be mad if it can still be very effective.

The MD really isn't OP. Just another weapon that can be used usefully besides the normal pot of weapons. Just that people hate diversity.

Here fixed that for you. Im not going to say the MD is fine or doesnt need further tweaking. But I will say that if your basis for your argument is because TP spammed MD in a PC and beat your side, that is not enough of a case my friend.

Lets say you completely removed Mass Drivers from the game.

You dont think TP will find another weapon to (ab)use to get the W?

They could come out with 16 Laser rifles/Nova Knives and figure out a way to shut down other teams. They are just that good together.

- Nerf TP, not the weapon because TP spammed it.

- Collect more data and prove a point as to why the MD needs nerfing. CCP does this already.

- Balance weapons for BOTH pub matches and PC. While I agree that weapon balancing should take PC battles into effect, the majority of the player base is not participating, nor has any desire to participate in PC. It was supposed to be the End Game, but it simply is not. The mechanics behind it are borked and weird and only the top elite corps have any chance at being "successful" there and even they will admit the success is not all that grand, yet.

I think you are missing the big picture I am trying to paint fo ryou. GO back in history.. how many weapons have people cried for nerfs? Before PC, during and After? The list is endless. The difference now, instead of 8v8 corp battles and pubs to slowly draw attention to the FOTM weapons, we now have PC. A direct proving ground where everyone will use any weapon they can to gain the W.

There will ALWAYS be a FOTM weapon. Until the day CCP decides to go the route of other FPS shooters and remove the diversity. Thats what diversity is all about. Who can come up with the latest and greatest way to skill up their merc, use equipment, and terrain to get the W. If you do not adapt yourself and use something to counter, or use the same FOTM weapon, these nerf threads will never end.

Tweak this, tweak that, go right ahead and tweak/nerf/buff all day long. These threads will never go away because teams that use teamwork, coordination, strategy and the most useful weapons will always come out on top in PC. It is the quintessential min/max game mode. If you are waiting patiently for your weapon of choice to become relevant in PC you will be waiting a very long time. If you have the patience, great. If you want to compete, adapt anyway that you can.. To say there is no counter to MD spam is to lie to yourself. Get better.

Friendly fire is the answer. As to why the developer continue to want to create a care bear game is beyond me, but as long as explosives can be spammed on top of groups of blues that are actually engaged in a gun battles this will happen. Add friendly fire and mass drivers will decrease, when your killing three blues for every one red people will see what situations are appropriate for its use and will diminish them when not appropriate.

The second match was one sided. Danny did a great job. I didn't do so well, but my squad was able to accomplish it's objective. That was the TWO mass driver users. TWO. Exmaple was all up on it last night too... Shotgun in an open field against MD... what do you expect? There are ways that you can deal with TWO mass drivers... You just aren't doing them.

Most of the time I saw you in those matches, you were oblivious... You are going to die a lot like that. I am all for complaiing about PC balance, but there are so many people on your team more qualified to do such things.

You run slow suits and put yourself out of position... You deserve every death you got. I've never seen you before in any of the IE/AE exile matches, and you are going to come in here and complain about TWO mass drivers?

Name an FPS where FOTM does not exist? Something has to be better than the next for certain situations otherwise we might as well go play checkers. The most successful people tend to use the best weapons for those circumstances. The people who cry about it are those who failed to do the same. See every FPS in the history of gaming as an example.

Is this your first time at the rodeo son? Perhaps you dont know what you are talking about... thats cool, nobody is perfect. :)

MD are OP we need that nerf back in uprising 1.0.

I am sure you noticed how the gun was infrequently used in PC at that point. It was VERY ineffective from elevation due to the inability to track players due to projectile speed. Personally I specced into just about everything I could for my fit before I got MD proficiency up. I still used it, because I realized the practice potential and figured they would fix it sooner or later. But it was by no means "alright" or "good". There were very few players who kept the MDfaith during that period.

Ill mention again that it is strong against scouts... and should be. I think that might flavor your preception

if it still is aim knocking then that needs to be removed but i've fought other mass driver and have not had my aim knocked since before we moved to tranq, unless for some reason another mass driver is not effected by aim knock. all and all i dont believe it still aim knocks.

+1 best trolling toy ever

Hm...

I'm pretty sure this is only happening because of broken aiming, I hardly had issues vs other MD users back on Chromosome. The MD as it is now is actually nerfed, if it didn't get nerfed then the base splash dmg on the PRO would've been around 150 (10% dmg bonus done to weapons in Uprising update).

CCP, take notice! ^^ Lot's of good ideas and discussion ITT!

I honestly can't believe this thread has maintained civility...

EVERY weapon has its counter...
Heavy FG > MD > AR > Heavy FG.

This applies to every other weapon, i just used this 3 as an example BECAUSE they are 3 eapons taht are in a good place now... (NOT OP, just doing their job)

So what you are saying is that you are a troll by definition, unable to debate the topic because you are stubborn and refuse to accept that your thinking may be wrong, and a hypocrite.

Pretty much sums it up? cool.