DUST Search - I thought the Mass Driver was okay until...

ZDub 303 wrote:

Big Issues:
1. Hit detection for hit scan weapons in CQC needs to be addressed for sure, its a serious issue.
2. Explosive damage fall off needs to be reviewed, I know it has some sort of damage fall off mechanic in place but its not right atm, its too high atm and encourages explosive use over all else.
3. Flux grenades need to be reevaluated, 7.2m and 1800 damage means you will lose all of your shields in an unavoidable 7.2m radius, in a game with such high TTKs, having insta kill weapons with 7.2m of blast radius, carrying 3 at a time and having an essentially infinite supply from proto nanohives is BAD for gameplay.
4. Locus grenades need to reevaluated as well, 7.2m blast radius and some sort of strange bonus to armor that can cause hits of up to 900-1000 damage from a single grenade, something is very wrong there, esp for a nade with 7.2m of blast radius.
5. Explosives increase in blast radius and damage, cause a huge rift in power from std to proto, that power gap needs to be addressed and tightened. Explosives should increase in power or increase in radius but not both. This applies for both explosive weapons and grenades.


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Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 204	Posted - 2013.08.10 15:25:00 - [1] - Quote I think the biggest aspect of this whole issue that only serves to exacerbate the Mass Driver's prevalence is the really shabby hit detection. This is not as bad in pub matches, but PC matches still to this day are plagued by bad frame rates and abysmal hot detection. I know this for a fact because I've been trying to collect some video evidence from different guns. The biggest issue is with single shot weapons like tr TAC AR and Shotgun. It seems like only 1/3 to 1/2 of shots will ever actually register against people. I've had so many cases where I see the bullet hit, see the blue shield flash, crosshairs confirms the hit, and yet there is 0 damage done to the person. It's most noticeable on single shot guns because these guns put accuracy of that one shot above everything, but when the game is refusing to register your hits it becomes incredibly frustrating to deal with. Now multiply this times your rapid-fire weapons like ScR, AR, SMG, HMG, etc. This in effect creates an atmosphere where it comes down to killing players as effectively and assuredly as possible. This is where the Mass Driver steps in. Don't get me wrong, the MD is not the only gun at fault here nor is it something we should be necessarily blaming on the MD. Flaylocks, Core Locus, MDs, all these ways of killing people only require you land your projectile in the general area of the player which increases your chance to hit tenfold. The issues MDs were having pre-1.2 are now equivalent to what most hitscan weapons now seem to be having. So, my suggestion is CCP really needs to get down on the hit detection issues before proceeding onto weapon balance. I'm not sure what's going on, but this game can't keep going on like this if CCP actually intends for people to take their "tournaments" or whatever seriously. In fact, the tournament wi probably show which corps are willing to abuse broken mechanics the most, and which corp is best at abusing said mechanics.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.08.10 15:39:00 - [2] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: And yet nothing will be done about forge abuse. You know in that match they had 2 or 3 forges on the tower that can only be reached by dropship, which because they are utter **** noone else can get up there after thee.first couple minutes. 1st match we got killed up top by the m/d spam from soul on top. 2nd match we got up top and had one forger (Himiko reigning down with the kamehameha), and doc holiday managed to get up their later in the match cause we killed each other 1ce. 3rd match our forger d/ced and we played with 15 for the whole match, no forger up top. I'd love it if the splash radius was drastically reduced, as vehicles are big enough that you can hit them fine, and infantry would take a absolute direct impact to kill, instead of splashing people to death. just my opinion though. Not sure how to help the mass driver. But I know if you were getting 1-2 on you the hole game danny and fiddle must have been in quite the sync. Splash physics are what need to be modified. It seems like now it's either you take 100% direct or 100% splash from everything but grenades. There needs to be a damage falloff curve implemented for splash damage so that even if you're just barely on the edge of a blast you don't take full splash damage. Players are having issues pre determining how to dodge explosions because the physical aspects of them don't fall in line with real physics.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 209	Posted - 2013.08.10 16:07:00 - [3] - Quote What's with the strawmen arguments going on here? Yes, every gun has the potential to kill someone with a mass driver, cool. The point of the discussion is about whether or not the mass driver itself is too potent of a weapon. People who don't participate in PC battles shouldn't really commenting. I'm not trying to be elitist by saying that, but PC is where the best players will use the best possible means to kill each other. So when you see all the best players spamming MDs because hit detection is so wonky, it may be time to reevaluate its role.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 211	Posted - 2013.08.10 16:20:00 - [4] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: One mass driver, not so bad. Two mass drivers, pretty annoying. Three or more in one area and it's a death trap. By itself the weapon isn't that bad and be countered. In large numbers, yes it is horrible. Overall this game has a problem with "spam" tactics. competitive DUST 514 in a nutshell MD by itself isnt a problem as this dude said its when its spammed it becomes a problem just like any other weapon in the game or equipment (lookin at u uplinks) or nades game promotes spam tactics Those "spam tactics" are perpetuated because explosions and area of effect are way too effective in this game. I'm sure if everyone was spamming ARs in PCs people wouldn't be complaining nearly as much because it still requires you to aim, shoot, and pray the bullet registers. The MD doesn't seem to have the those problems nearly as much. And don't even start on uplinks. I've already created several posts about that to no avail.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 211	Posted - 2013.08.10 16:27:00 - [5] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: So what's the difference between you being stomped by point and shoot ARs, and you being stomped by MD users? Especially when the AR has more than double the amount of usage the MD gets? If you read the post, this issue is primarily most prevalent in Planetary Conquest battles where corps are using the most effective tactics to win, that being the MD. At that level, you typically don't get "stomped" by ARs because you have time to duck, dodge, and get behind cover to avoid them. You don't get that luxury with an MD in closer-quarters combat. Until it gets fixed, my main counter-tactic is to literally bear hug MD users while gunning them. That way if I die they at least have a chance to blow themselves or their teammates up with me. That's what we really need: more people forcing MD users to be aware just how stupid their own splash damage is.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 213	Posted - 2013.08.10 16:38:00 - [6] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Big Issues: 1. Hit detection for hit scan weapons in CQC needs to be addressed for sure, its a serious issue. 2. Explosive damage fall off needs to be reviewed, I know it has some sort of damage fall off mechanic in place but its not right atm, its too high atm and encourages explosive use over all else. 3. Flux grenades need to be reevaluated, 7.2m and 1800 damage means you will lose all of your shields in an unavoidable 7.2m radius, in a game with such high TTKs, having insta kill weapons with 7.2m of blast radius, carrying 3 at a time and having an essentially infinite supply from proto nanohives is BAD for gameplay. 4. Locus grenades need to reevaluated as well, 7.2m blast radius and some sort of strange bonus to armor that can cause hits of up to 900-1000 damage from a single grenade, something is very wrong there, esp for a nade with 7.2m of blast radius. 5. Explosives increase in blast radius and damage, cause a huge rift in power from std to proto, that power gap needs to be addressed and tightened. Explosives should increase in power or increase in radius but not both. This applies for both explosive weapons and grenades. You and I are pretty much on the same page. I've created several posts about most of those points throughout the feedback forum. The last point I'd like to add is some sort of deterrent to equipment spam. My suggestion to that is to change it so that all equipment has a hard cap of 3 active units per person, and that any new equipment laid down would destroy the first accordingly. This is to prevent the insane uplink/repping nanohive spam on rooftops that every PC match comes down to. I've become so bored with trying to argue tactics with my corp because it's all the same. Every PC match comes down to two things: (a) get the high ground, (b) spam uplinks. That's the big secret to winning the "strategy" side of PC. After that it just comes down to who can spam AoE weapons the best to clear out the enemy.