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Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
146
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Posted - 2013.08.10 13:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so Mortedeamor here, now i have been running lavs in dust 514 for over a year now. I have also run proto swarms for over a year, allot of people on these forums are crying about lavs a.k.a murder taxi's because we are driving around running them over. collision is being reworked actively by ccp we all know this we all know the collision crisis will most likely be over in 1.4. so beyond base collision reworking i wanted to make a thread to have valid discussion about reworking and balancing lavs. as i do not want to get kicked and i have a tendency to do so every time i make a post i ask that this convo be polite no hate wanted here no ranting about murder taxi's COLLISION IS BEING FIXED. so bearing that in mind lemme continue.
my general feeling about the three CLASSES of lav is that they do not fall along the lines of their class name so logi scout assault none of the 3 can actually claim to be logi assault or scout not in the way the suits are.
now im going to start with my thoughts on the SCOUT LAV as this is a big disappointment to me. the scout lav is not nearly fast enough. while it has the hp to be considered a scout it does not have the speed. also i don't think the scout lav should have a turret it does not have the pg and cpu to fit even a standard turret effectively. it needs a top speed buff and an acceleration buff and i would like to see the turret removed. i also think to account for the loss of the turret the scout lav should have on board nanites to resupply at close proximity similar to the logi lav repper mentioned later. this would make the scout lav prime for av teams the resupply function + the added speed will most likely post the scout lav back into that speed range where they can dodge swarms. and if anything the scout lav should be able to do such i know at some point that was the point ccp intentionally lowered swarm speed so they could be dodge able in chromosome right?
assault lav now this is a terrible joke if anything the saga and methana are to the charybdis and limbus as the sica and soma is to the gunlogi and madrugar. this is terrible, to balance this i think the saga and methana should have their base resistances buffed higher than the logi lavs. their speed should be kept the same. but i also think the turret should have a guard or cover on it to partially protect the user from frontal fire as it is intended to be an assault vehicle. also the rear hull should not have the weaknesses that the other 2 lav types do
LOGI LAVS now logi lavs need not really allot of work.
1 they need a speed nerf not top speed merely acceleration. it is impractical to use in pc you could not pull in close to teammates without risking running them over, especially not under dire circumstances.
2 the repper or shield transporter is ineffective and impractical and not useful at all in hard combat. it should be more like a automated repper that activates within a certain proximity of an injured suit (including those inside the lav) and attaches a rep beam. this would allow a logi to pull into a dire circumstance ..(post1.5 lock their 200k lav) tank dmg yet not murder taxi hop out res and heal while the area effect repper helps as well. and while i do see the need for an assault turret ona logi lav my suit hopping out is more deadly in most cases than a turret..i would find a logi turrent much more useful... maybe give us different type of logi turrets effective vs other vehicles ,suits?
i would like to hear other peoples thoughts who have specced into lavs as in 1.4 collision will be redone the next few builds ccp will attempt to fix vehicles. if any time is the time to be serious now it is. who knows what ccp will do with vehicles that they are making an attempt is a relief to me. the only thing we can really do is give them feedback or whine like children as i am not i child i am trying for a mature response here. maybe we can get a little improvement for this mindless lobby shooter i wasted so much time on. durp ship pilots make ur threads tankers now would be the time..ccp blams stain has been removed. can ccp save vehicles?
lol see you on the battle field pets my proto forge and swarm lets hope so i wanna fight some real tanks  |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
146
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Posted - 2013.08.10 13:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
also why cant i shoot out of the passenger side with my weapon if its a light weapon ccp make it happen i norm have a slayer in my shotgun |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
146
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Posted - 2013.08.10 13:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:Well basic LAVs are supposed to be faster than logi LAVs and slower than scout LAVs. This means scouts will be the fastest LAV so I highly agree on your scout LAV buff suggestion. But the basic are just that, basic so it doesn't have any skill bonuses (like dropsuits).
If collision gets reworked logi LAVs should keep their resistance while be much slower than they're now. I love the idea of a triage turret for repairing suits/tanks. But that would be a bonus, keep the shield/armor transporters and give us WP for repairing tanks and suits.
-XOXO
but for wp for repairing tanks from lav repper we will need the ability to heal vehicles with the logi lav repper. which atm it cant...wp for logi work is a serious need both for all shield transporting and all armor repping their should be bonuses. |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
146
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Posted - 2013.08.10 13:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Scout LAVs need a higher top speed, as you said, the ability to remove the turret and a built in Nitrous Injector (All specialised vehicles should have a built-in module) And of course, we need our Chassis modules back to take full advantage of the increased speed. The Logi LAV needs to have a 'Support' slot, not a turret slot, the Support slot will basically be an equipment slot for Logi LAVs. We will also need new support items.
- Supply Depot: Basically a Supply Depot, but you carry it on the back of the LLAV. For each fitting changed you get 25WP (WP earns have a cooldown like the infantry Rep tool) and for ammo resupplied you get 10WP (Same WP earns as Nanohive)
- Bubble Shield: Pretty self explanatory, you activate the module, and it emits a 360 Degree shield. From each kill gotten within the Shield, you get 10WP (Has a WP Cooldown like other WP gains) The Shield takes damage, when it has taken enough damage it knocks off, the HP and radius goes up as you unlock higher meta shields.
I'd also like to see more Support modules.
- Nanite Injector: Works the same as the Infantry injector, but it instead works in a beam, and has a range, meaning you dont have to be over the player. WP gains are same as Infantry injector.
- Shield/Armour Reinforcer: Overloads Shields/Armour giving them a temporary buff in Max Shield/Armour. (Gain WP for every piece of damage the target takes while his shields are reinforced, amount of WP is based on the amount of damage sustained)
We need more modules because right now we only have Shield Transporters and Scanners for supporting troops/vehicles (Which we gain no WP for)
ooo yeah good one knight solitaire ive bought up a support slot for logi lav before i think it would be a great idea. |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
146
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Posted - 2013.08.10 13:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
that support slot would also add attack ability to the saga and methana combined with the turreter cover |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
147
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bump |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
147
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:also why cant i shoot out of the passenger side with my weapon if its a light weapon ccp make it happen i norm have a slayer in my shotgun could do it in halo Main reason is if they let LAV passengers shoot, theyd have to let DS passengers shoot. If they let DS passengers shoot, the game would be LOL because forge guns are broken. And this would make it more obvious Basically, LAVs cant have passengers shoot because forge guns are OP
that's why if you note i limit this function to light weapons |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
147
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
i mean i wouldnt want swarms to be allowed either a durpship with 2 people like me could kill so many tanks so fast av weapons would be obviously excluded but i wonder vs proto lvl vehicles balanced proto if even forges would be op used this way |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
148
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote:LLAV are good the way they are now but scout LAV on the otherhand are useless , stats are like stats of FREE LAV , i dont notice any speed increase over FREE LAV and dont tell me about turret rotation rate , you dont use it anyway and they more expensive than basic LAV
so far all LAV's , basic ,LLAV , scout have same speed
once collision is nerfed in 1.4 the only lavs that will even be worth anything are logi lavs and not for anything to do with their namesake LOGI that is an issue vehicles will be undergoing a reworking. i dunno what your trying to say about turrent rotation but i actually do use turret rotation enhancers i am quiet fond of them. allot of things are expensive fully specced lavs cost 200k on average cheap really same as a loaded proto suit |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
148
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Posted - 2013.08.11 02:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote:LLAV are good the way they are now but scout LAV on the otherhand are useless , stats are like stats of FREE LAV , i dont notice any speed increase over FREE LAV and dont tell me about turret rotation rate , you dont use it anyway and they more expensive than basic LAV
so far all LAV's , basic ,LLAV , scout have same speed once collision is nerfed in 1.4 the only lavs that will even be worth anything are logi lavs and not for anything to do with their namesake LOGI that is an issue vehicles will be undergoing a reworking. i dunno what your trying to say about turrent rotation but i actually do use turret rotation enhancers i am quiet fond of them. allot of things are expensive fully specced lavs cost 200k on average cheap really same as a loaded proto suit hard to belive you switch to turrent in your paper scout LAV made , and yeah my LLAV fit is only 300k
no i do not switch to my turret i run proto av according to the flow of battle in a charybdis and the massdriver logi lav on close maps some times i tank as well for scruberries but sometimes i like tormenting redline afkers with a charybdis and a skilled turreter. i do have rules because of theft and i never play with anyone i dont know am ina squad with and talking to ona mic. any time a blue dot enters my vehicle i will pull back to the redline and sit all you will do is afk me. |
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Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
148
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Posted - 2013.08.11 02:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote:xSaloLx wrote:I've made a few threads about my ideas for changes to the LLAV and the SLAV here, if you'd like my input. Also this comment on possible chassis option. Anyway, my ideas: LLAV: Tad slower, change repairer to AoE armour repair (no shield repair, or at least give points for it), remove/option for removal of turret for 2 extra passengers (4 troops total with driver) SLAV: Huge boost to turret damage (the idea is to be able to threaten other LAVS, but weak to AV/, tanks, etc), stock active scanner, huge base speed and maneuvering boost, bit more defences, price reduction or make it worth putting +150k isk into a paper car. LLAV/LAV's speed is ok , it doesnt need any nerf on the other hand scout LAV needs a speed buff description says SLAV has speed but its same stuff as for other LAV's
logi lav speed puts them out of the logi class and makes them impractical ina pc situation for healing when team firing is enabled that combined with they're terrible reppers makes them not really logi lavs at all but stonger attack lavs |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
148
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Posted - 2013.08.11 02:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
regardless of what they do with collision the logi lav needs a speed nerf not a top speed but an acceleration i do not use speed modules at all on every vehicle except my blaster charybdis and the base speed and accel is absurdly high for a logi class vehicle meant for up close logi work and team support. the logi lav has the hp it has so it can take av fire while supporting the team with both logi's possible reinforcements and even vehicle based healing. it does not need the speed it currently has to accomplish this. and the repper is no where near sufficient to the task. if your arguing because you dont want lavs changed get over it. ccp is reworking vehicles and attempting to give us balance the will be nerfing collision which will put lavs ina weird place and then they will be reworking all vehicles. would you rather they have a few dozen cry threads, and their own resources (which have gotten us such great results in the past), or would you rather they have logical intelligent conversation on the forums with real player feedback too look at. i would like to see vehicles balanced for once i think the majority of the community agrees with me on the logi lav needing more logi to it and not needing the speed it has. |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
148
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Posted - 2013.08.11 02:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
scout lav fast light to no weaponry
standard attack strong fast with attack abilities
logi lav slower tankier with repping abilities and team support
this is how the should be |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
148
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Posted - 2013.08.11 02:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
xSaloLx wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:scout lav fast light to no weaponry
standard attack strong fast with attack abilities
logi lav slower tankier with repping abilities and team support
this is how the should be Why would I use a +80k isk minimum SLAV whose only only benefit is being slightly faster (but with less defenses) over my free Blood Raider? The SLAV needs to fill some niche over being an expensive taxi.
i agree it should be fast enough to dodge swarms i personally want it to exclusively carry on board nanites that resupply you as this would make it a prime av vehicle fast for heavies resupplies em |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
150
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
xSaloLx wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:scout lav fast light to no weaponry
standard attack strong fast with attack abilities
logi lav slower tankier with repping abilities and team support
this is how the should be Why would I use a +80k isk minimum SLAV whose only only benefit is being slightly faster (but with less defenses) over my free Blood Raider? The SLAV needs to fill some niche over being an expensive taxi.
but also in comparison not using purchased bpos scout lavs are the cheapest ...logi lavs the most expensive weird how price ranges are the only thing ccp got right with lavs lol |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
151
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:When they do away with the BS carmageddon, they should make the logilav a moving nanohive with area effect healing abilities that heal infantry around them for a short period of time with a long cool down, a built in CRU would also be appropriate, this would offset the QQ from making it so they only push players around rather then kill them.
IMO the scout LAV should have a significant bonus to the small turret and a powerful bonus to vehicular active scanning, range and strength.
i agree with everything except the scout lav turret bit i would rather it were just removed its not useful the scout lav doesnt have the hp or speed to make a turret anything but a burden. i dont use scout lavs because whats the point they arnt faster and they have less hp atm...in speed attack power and tanking ability the scout lav is inferior to the standard lav as the standard lav is inferior to the logi lav. support module would be nice though sighs |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
152
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Posted - 2013.08.11 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:regardless of what they do with collision the logi lav needs a speed nerf not a top speed but an acceleration i do not use speed modules at all on every vehicle except my blaster charybdis and the base speed and accel is absurdly high for a logi class vehicle meant for up close logi work and team support. the logi lav has the hp it has so it can take av fire while supporting the team with both logi's possible reinforcements and even vehicle based healing. it does not need the speed it currently has to accomplish this. and the repper is no where near sufficient to the task. if your arguing because you dont want lavs changed get over it. ccp is reworking vehicles and attempting to give us balance the will be nerfing collision which will put lavs ina weird place and then they will be reworking all vehicles. would you rather they have a few dozen cry threads, and their own resources (which have gotten us such great results in the past), or would you rather they have logical intelligent conversation on the forums with real player feedback too look at. i would like to see vehicles balanced for once i think the majority of the community agrees with me on the logi lav needing more logi to it and not needing the speed it has. do you post wall of text in hoping people wont bother to answer you therefor having the last word and considering you right? there are light vehicules , any nerf to speed and they not light vehicules anymore i swear the nerf demanding are ridiculos by the day you people ignore FACTS just because you cant adapt and you die... grow up for gods sake
no its just how i type and the logi lav will most likely get a speed nerf it is my main lav and i would think it is needed the base speeds need to be adjusted so the scout lavs is faster. the saga and methana are medium, and logi is the slowest assuming the repper becomes as awesome as we describe here this would be balance i have massacred more than enough in my charybdis since uprising most charybdis users would agree its a needed nerf. vehicle balance is crucial to the success of a game and this game's vehicle balance is anything but balanced. in order for a proper war everything must be balanced according to their class. even with the speed nerf speed tanking is always viable on lavs with chasis once they are back and jovians and nos
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