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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
370
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
There just arnt enough players active at any one time for it to make a difference unless you want 30min wait times for games to start.
they are trying to create a system that is more fine tuned to work with the games pitifully small core player base but in reality there isnt much more that can be done.
let me explain.
the que process works something like this
player searches for game
if player = first player then start new pre lobby player roster
for 30 seconds add all new players to current active pre lobby player roster
balance teams based on available players in pre lobby player roster
start lobby
for 120 seconds all add new players to current lobby and balance based on exsisting teams
in order to create more balanced teams you would have to both extend the pre lobby roster settings past the 30 seconds ish that it currently waits to well into the few minuite markers (meaning you would get "searching for game" for minuites at a time before it put you into a lobby
THEN it would probably have to extend the lobby timers in order to give enough time for similarly ranked players (internal matchmaking ratings) to que up and be able to join that game.
the problem is that right now the player numbers are so low that in any 5-10 minuite timespan there arnt enough players of equil ranking who arnt already in a squad with each other (and therefore forced to be on the same team) to balance out the teams properly without creating wait times in excess of 15-20 minuites
so stop bitching about matchmaking, with our current numbers its just not possable to make it any better than it is (well it is but the work to be done on it is not trivial and not abelt o be done in a short period of time since it has to not only work but also be scalable in the event that player numbers increase and decrease AND not produce wait times in the 15-20 minuite mark |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
2464
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Actually, the game uses an ELO system (confirned during E3 presentation), however because there are so many variables in gear choice as well as squads, it doesn't work near as well as it does on, say, League of Legends. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
787
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
well about time somebody said it. One thing I never whined about was match making. cause well I was thinking about how you balance 5000-4000 players? |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
370
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 16:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Actually, the game uses an ELO system (confirned during E3 presentation), however because there are so many variables in gear choice as well as squads, it doesn't work near as well as it does on, say, League of Legends.
i am aware of the ELO rankings it uses, wich is the same ranking system used in chess i believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
wiki for it
this system doesnt use gear at all and instead uses individual player skill.
the internal matchmaking basically averages out all the players on a single teams ELO rating and trys to match up both sides to be as even as possable.
the problem is that not every player with a high ELO rating has access to proto gear, or is going to use proto gear so teams that are balanced as far as internal ELO matchmaking are concerned may not be balanced as far as gear is concerned.
also with the current player pool its not entirely possable to balance out teams ELO ratings against each other in addition to the gear not being factored in.
gear isnt as big an issue as far as matchmaking is concered, as player skill > gear |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
370
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 16:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
if you guys want i can create a group of extemly detailed examples of exactly how this sytem works and why it prouduces the problems we see every day and how that is unavoidable with the player count we currently have. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2848
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's being divided into teams that pisses me off.
It's not uncommon for a team of randoms to be pitted against 2 large corp squads |
R F Gyro
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
452
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:
the internal matchmaking basically averages out all the players on a single teams ELO rating and trys to match up both sides to be as even as possable.
Ahhhhh. If that is the case then it explains a fair bit.
Complete newbs will still be thrown into battles with protovets, but the sides will be (theoretically) balanced.
It is "fair" because the protovets on team A will be pubstomping the newbs on team B just as much as the vets on B will be stomping the newbs on A.
Of course, it still sucks to be a newb.
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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
371
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's being divided into teams that pisses me off.
It's not uncommon for a team of randoms to be pitted against 2 large corp squads
the reason this happens is because after the first large squad joins it will fill the other team with the closest matching players (ELO rating wise) in order to balance the teams in both rating and numbers.
because of this and the nature of the fact that there are alot of solo players with really high ELO ratings what will happen is that the team without a large squad will have either a higher ELO rating or simply have more players in it. and so the next large squad ends up on the same team as the first in order to balance things out as best as possable.
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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
371
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:
the internal matchmaking basically averages out all the players on a single teams ELO rating and trys to match up both sides to be as even as possable.
Ahhhhh. If that is the case then it explains a fair bit. Complete newbs will still be thrown into battles with protovets, but the sides will be (theoretically) balanced. It is "fair" because the protovets on team A will be pubstomping the newbs on team B just as much as the vets on B will be stomping the newbs on A. Of course, it still sucks to be a newb.
this is exactly correct
the only real difference between the teams in most pubstomps is that one teams vets will be solo players and the other teams vets will be in organised squads.
i oftin find myself one of 3-4 useful vets on a team filled with low rated players against a full proto squad with their rest of the team filled with low rated players.
its the proto squad that makes if feel imbalanced but rating wise the teams are fairely evenly matched.
im usually hunting their low rated players in matches like this trying to avoid the main squad thats flattening the newbs on my team.
the other thing of note is that the vets on the non proto team arnt very likely to be using proto while solo due to most saving their proto suits for when they are in full squads.
that and ocasionally you will find yourself against multiple full squads of proto with no proto in sight on your team (mostly due to the ELO ratings having nothing to do with what gear you are wearing and have acess to)
it is very very possable to have a high ELO rating and yet have less than 2m SP and no proto.
so games will be balanced VS skill averaged over the team but they will NEVER be balanced gear wise as thats just not possable. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
114
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Posted - 2013.08.09 18:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well in that case I want CCP to give everyone who is playing right now with at least 3 mil sp full proto spec gear for giving a damn about their game at a critical time in its development.
They're going to need that player base if they want to hang on and go anywhere with this game. |
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2861
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Posted - 2013.08.09 18:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's being divided into teams that pisses me off.
It's not uncommon for a team of randoms to be pitted against 2 large corp squads the reason this happens is because after the first large squad joins it will fill the other team with the closest matching players (ELO rating wise) in order to balance the teams in both rating and numbers. because of this and the nature of the fact that there are alot of solo players with really high ELO ratings what will happen is that the team without a large squad will have either a higher ELO rating or simply have more players in it. and so the next large squad ends up on the same team as the first in order to balance things out as best as possable.
Well, that's a pretty bad system because coordination gives a huge advantage. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
373
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 22:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's being divided into teams that pisses me off.
It's not uncommon for a team of randoms to be pitted against 2 large corp squads the reason this happens is because after the first large squad joins it will fill the other team with the closest matching players (ELO rating wise) in order to balance the teams in both rating and numbers. because of this and the nature of the fact that there are alot of solo players with really high ELO ratings what will happen is that the team without a large squad will have either a higher ELO rating or simply have more players in it. and so the next large squad ends up on the same team as the first in order to balance things out as best as possable. Well, that's a pretty bad system because coordination gives a huge advantage.
i cant believe someone whos in a position to train others how to play the game can honestly have that opinion, if you dont understand the value of teamwork and understand its supreme importance in a game you have no buisness training anyone in that school.
co-ordination isnt something that you can measure with statistics or any computation whatsoever.
basically you cant balance a team based on how well it co-ordinates and the entire sucess or failure of a team depends entirely on co-ordination.
basically the matchmaking ensures that whoever has the most co-ordination wins rather than whoever has the highest rating/gear level/sp wins.
so working as designed and working as best as can be expected givin the player counts we have
its up to the players to co-ordinate if they want to win, and if you want to win and do well, jump in a squad of 6 with full comms and enjoy. its not anyones fault if you fail to play as a team in a game balanced around team play.
its a GREAT system and outside a few weapon and gear imbalances (wich can be mostly overcome with supirior teamwork) it works great at ensuring that the team that has the most co-operation wins.
IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
everyones complaints about the matchmaking basically boils down to "OMG nerf teamwork CCP" |
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