DUST Search - Shield vs. Armor

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

The title is certainly better.

Now, more on topic, your last paragraph that mentioned the Amarr got me to thinking about DS vs DS on the racial scale:

If the Amarr ADS is the (potential) counder to the Caldari ADS, then that means that the Amarr is also the counter to the Minmatar ADS (as both the caldari and minmatar emphasize shields, though not to the same extent).

Also, the Caldari ADS beats out the Gallente ADS, as you noted. But, the Minmatar seem like they will also be able to counter the gallente, as their weapons are best against armour (potentially).

Where does this leave the Gallente? Is it the counter to the Amarr? Given that the Amarr seem keen on dual tanking, and have the highest EHP, it seems like that is a long shot. Is it the counter to the Minmatar? The minmatar may have low EHP, but they focus on shields and speed and will be able to run laps around the Gallente ADS.... so, where does the Gallente fit into the picture?

I can't help but think that, on a Dropship vs. Dropship scale, the Gallente may become completely without use vs other dropships once more content is released. Unless, of course, something is done to fix the imbalance you noted.


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Kaminoikari Intrepidus XI EoN. 39	Posted - 2013.08.09 06:25:00 - [1] - Quote You know Caldari > Gallente in terms of dropships when: A) They can put on shield resistance modules along with shield extenders B) No turret is effective against it in a one on one battle C) They use a missile turret Now, you may think "Oh, that's not true." or "Armor > Shield". In terms of Dropships, no. Here's why: The Caldari Assault Dropship - Natural shield resistance Low CPU cost on Shield Extenders Low CPU cost on Shield Boosters Couple this with a natural resistance to missiles, and small railgun turrets (anything railgun oriented). Now, you might thnk, "well, get close enough and use a Scattered Ion Cannon!" the problem with that, is even up close it does hardly any damage before you have to break for a cooldown. This leads it to be nearly impossible to kill aside from another Caldari Assault Dropship against it. (As in 2 CADS' duking it out.) why, might you wonder? Gallente Assault Dropship - Natural armor resistance High PG cost Armor Plates High PG cost Armor Repair The natural armor resistance on a Gallente DS is 4%. 4% of 455 is 18.2. That means for ever hit past your shields, an XT turret will do 436.8 damage. Now, you might think that's not much, right? If you stack 3 Armor Hardeners on it, you get 35.11% armor resistance. Okay, so 35% armor resistance is decent, right? Wrong. Round to while numbers, 35% of 455 is 159 damage negated. That means an XT turret would do 296 damage. Seems balanced, right? Now let's add in the fact that missiles do bonus damage to armor. (I might be wrong, someone please correct me on this if so.) Missiles do 15% bonus to armor. That then changes things up and now 15% of that 35% is negated. That makes the XT do 20% less damage. The XT will ten be doing 364 damage. Couple this with how Caldari can stack two damage mods on for 10% increase and the XT will do (I'm sure I'll be weong on this) about 16% more damage. Okay, so 16% plus that armor damage bonus and you have 29% damage increase. This negates any armor hardeners pretty much entirely. This means the XT will be doing nearly full damage against a Gallente Dropship. Let's also add in that Caldari ships are faster because they do not sacrifice speed for health whereas a Gallente ship does. Now, even if you don't use armor plates, but instead 1 armor rep and 3 armor hardeners, you have 1700 HP. Even without the gimping armor plates, the Gallente ship is still slower, and even if you fit an afterburner on, if you are facing a decent pilot, he will be able to get you down before you can run. But even assuming you do get down, you're now out of the air for the duration of the match. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been my sharing experience with you as to the Shield vs. Armor fight, but with Dropships. I consider myself a rather good pilot, but when facing a CADS with a decent pilot, I have no choice but to retreat or get show down. As of now, the only way to counter this rather obvious and shield heavy imbalance, I'd suggest us getting laser turrets. Why? Because they would be the only thing to counter against a Caldari Dropship effectively. I would like to hear any counter arguments to this as well. (Also, if any CCP member decides to read this please share your thoughts as well.)
Kaminoikari Intrepidus XI EoN. 39	Posted - 2013.08.09 06:43:00 - [2] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: I'll just sit on my mountain with my 80GJ compressed. Aim, fire, dead derpship. Unless its a super tanked out logi. Then, it's two shots. EDIT: fun fact, blasters are the current "anti-shield" turret. they are plasma, which gives a 110% against shield and 90% against armor. railguns are reversed, with 110 against armor and 90 against shields. As I've stated, even with the extra damage against shields, you have to be up close and personal for it to be even remotely good and in doing so you make yourself an easy target.
Kaminoikari Intrepidus XI EoN. 39	Posted - 2013.08.09 06:51:00 - [3] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Railguns do more to shields than armor unless its been changed recently. They shouldbe the other way but its been bugged for over a year That tid bit was un true. Other than that, who cares. I two shot your ** with a militia forge. Don't you have bigger issues at hand? Railguns are +10 to armor, I believe. Also; daishi mk03 wrote: Armor = Shield in my opinion. I shoot down every DS in 2 shots from my railgun. It's a Dropship** comparison, therefore tankers for infantry, tanks and Forgegunning holds no relevance. It's not that complicated to see by the OP.
Kaminoikari Intrepidus XI EoN. 39	Posted - 2013.08.09 07:05:00 - [4] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Never mind, I guess... title is a tad misleading. Title changed.
Kaminoikari Intrepidus XI EoN. 39	Posted - 2013.08.09 22:45:00 - [5] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: The title is certainly better. Now, more on topic, your last paragraph that mentioned the Amarr got me to thinking about DS vs DS on the racial scale: If the Amarr ADS is the (potential) counder to the Caldari ADS, then that means that the Amarr is also the counter to the Minmatar ADS (as both the caldari and minmatar emphasize shields, though not to the same extent). Also, the Caldari ADS beats out the Gallente ADS, as you noted. But, the Minmatar seem like they will also be able to counter the gallente, as their weapons are best against armour (potentially). Where does this leave the Gallente? Is it the counter to the Amarr? Given that the Amarr seem keen on dual tanking, and have the highest EHP, it seems like that is a long shot. Is it the counter to the Minmatar? The minmatar may have low EHP, but they focus on shields and speed and will be able to run laps around the Gallente ADS.... so, where does the Gallente fit into the picture? I can't help but think that, on a Dropship vs. Dropship scale, the Gallente may become completely without use vs other dropships once more content is released. Unless, of course, something is done to fix the imbalance you noted. Exactly. Without some sort of vehicle tweaking, Gallente is bound to fail in terms of Dropships. They're slower, bigger (by a small margin), and require afterburners. Now, Amarr is the slowest class in terms of speed if you look at the infantry, so by this, their ADS would also be the slowest, but as said, with the most eHP. Given it'd be the most easies to take down because of it, dual tanking probably wouldn't be the best idea because a slow Dropship is a dead Dropship. It's already plainly visible in battles when you see a Gallente ship flying around, it's slow enough that you have no problems killing it if you really wanted to. In terms of Minmatar, they would be the fastest but have the least PG CPU. I can't offer much variation in opinion on them besides what you've stated. But as it stands right now, even in the skies, Caldari reigns supreme in a battle... Unless the pilot is horrible.