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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1489
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Posted - 2013.08.08 17:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes it's OP. It has no real downsides and far too many upsides.
The only reason not to use the AR is if you don't want to be an AR crutch wielder.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1498
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Posted - 2013.08.08 17:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:
Or another way to look at it is this: If you have a battle between 32 snipers, forge guns, or mass drivers, the gameplay is going to suck (not everyone will agree with this...). A battle between 32 ARs is going to be just fine, whether you find it boring or not. That's why it is the default weapon for most people, and will always be the most common choice.
So no, I can't give you a yes or no answer because you are not asking the right question.
To me, what you describe as "fine" gameplay is the entire problem. That's the epitome of brainless, no tactics lowbrow FPS. I hope Dust never even comes close to this.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1513
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:
Or another way to look at it is this: If you have a battle between 32 snipers, forge guns, or mass drivers, the gameplay is going to suck (not everyone will agree with this...). A battle between 32 ARs is going to be just fine, whether you find it boring or not. That's why it is the default weapon for most people, and will always be the most common choice.
So no, I can't give you a yes or no answer because you are not asking the right question.
To me, what you describe as "fine" gameplay is the entire problem. That's the epitome of brainless, no tactics lowbrow FPS. I hope Dust never even comes close to this. Specialised weapons enrich the game and spice things up. But as a foundation of core gameplay mechanics, they are unsuitable. If any weapon is so bad that you hardly ever see it on the battlefield, then that's a pity and something to be rectified (hello plasma cannon). But complaining that the AR is the most used and most effective weapon in general is pointless. One weapon has to fill that role, and it better be one that makes for good gameplay. A battle between 32 mass drivers would not be any more tactical than a battle between 32 ARs. It would be a bloody mess.
I agree with this. It's diversity that's important. We don't have that now. The AR, in pub matches, amounts to kills almost equivalent to 11 of the total 14 weapons combined.
So, this is the exact problem you describe. Most weapons are being far underused in favor of the OP AR. It's be one thing if the AR, was say, used as much as two or three other weapons combined, but it isn't. It's used as much, or almost, as eleven of them combined.
Sad. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1513
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:
Or another way to look at it is this: If you have a battle between 32 snipers, forge guns, or mass drivers, the gameplay is going to suck (not everyone will agree with this...). A battle between 32 ARs is going to be just fine, whether you find it boring or not. That's why it is the default weapon for most people, and will always be the most common choice.
So no, I can't give you a yes or no answer because you are not asking the right question.
To me, what you describe as "fine" gameplay is the entire problem. That's the epitome of brainless, no tactics lowbrow FPS. I hope Dust never even comes close to this. Specialised weapons enrich the game and spice things up. But as a foundation of core gameplay mechanics, they are unsuitable. If any weapon is so bad that you hardly ever see it on the battlefield, then that's a pity and something to be rectified (hello plasma cannon). But complaining that the AR is the most used and most effective weapon in general is pointless. One weapon has to fill that role, and it better be one that makes for good gameplay. A battle between 32 mass drivers would not be any more tactical than a battle between 32 ARs. It would be a bloody mess. I agree with this. It's diversity that's important. We don't have that now. The AR, in pub matches, amounts to kills almost equivalent to 11 of the total 14 weapons combined. So, this is the exact problem you describe. Most weapons are being far underused in favor of the OP AR. It's be one thing if the AR, was say, used as much as two or three other weapons combined, but it isn't. It's used as much, or almost, as eleven of them combined. Sad. You must get owned a lot to have this delusional vision of the AR.
That's funny. See, my "vision" comes from the killfeed. Hardly delusional. It's actual data.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1514
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:Buster Friently wrote:I agree with this. It's diversity that's important. We don't have that now. The AR, in pub matches, amounts to kills almost equivalent to 11 of the total 14 weapons combined.
So, this is the exact problem you describe. Most weapons are being far underused in favor of the OP AR. It's be one thing if the AR, was say, used as much as two or three other weapons combined, but it isn't. It's used as much, or almost, as eleven of them combined. I fundamentally disagree that usage equivalent to more than 20-30% is indicative of an imbalance on the core version of the most general full auto weapon we have. Infact I'd argue that if the killfeed showed this ratio for the AR it would indicate it was underpowered when accounting for the preference of general purpose weapons, underuse of weapons which are UP, starter fit configurations, reasonably prevalent BPO's with no equivalents across comparable weapons and for that matter a lack of directly comparable weapons.
Well, we have a different definition of diversity them.
That's fine. I understand your point, but I disagree. 11 out of 14 is too much IMHO, far too much. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1517
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Posted - 2013.08.08 21:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
RydogV wrote:I don't agree the AR is OP just overused by most players. And its overuse is not a product of superior stats either. It is a product of Map Design. Most current maps favor the strengths of the AR and its mid-range combat effectiveness. As someone who has played primarily with the AR, mostly because as a Logi with no sidearm I value its versatility, I find no distinct advantage with the AR outside of the mid-range zone.
I am often bested by HMG's, Mass Drivers and Shotguns at shorter ranges. And I fall victim to Scrambler Rifles and Snipers at longer ranges. This is as it should be. I am seeing more diversity lately but keep in mind a lot of folks dumped SP in AR skills and it will take a while to get similar proficiency with alternate weapons. The skills make a big difference with most weapons.
The AR doesn't need to be nerfed. It just needs time for folks to gravitate to other weapons and get good with them. Once other weapons make the scene the AR will become less and less predominate. Just gotta give it more time.
Except this isn't the trend.
And each time people do migrate to other weapons, they get nerfed - keeping the AR with a firm grip on OP status.
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