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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1294
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:19:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory.
 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
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        |  low genius
 the sound of freedom
 Renegade Alliance
 
 261
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:22:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 
 Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 
 you could have made it look a lot worse with reload times, but even with these very optimistic numbers it's well said.
 
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        |  BullsON Parade
 YourCorp NameHere
 
 19
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:24:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 And if there are two heavys standing there with a lodgee... Then who is doing more dps?
 
 Op or not...time will tell. When everyone is using it...then you will know... If not...no harm no fowl.
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        |  Zero Notion
 Red Star Jr.
 EoN.
 
 159
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:25:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 Yeah, it's not an OP weapon. It's just being utilized in a way that is OP; no FF in pub = world of MD spam.
 
 Boring.
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        |  FATPrincess - XOXO
 Shining Flame
 Amarr Empire
 
 395
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:27:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 Well the heavy will be easier to kill with splash damage. With the AR you have to make every bullet count so it takes more skill. With MD you just equip the assault variant and let the explosives spammage do the job.
 
 -XOXO
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        |  Lucifalic
 Baked n Loaded
 
 44
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:28:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 What about damage to armour bonus? And this is assuming every round from ar hit. Don't get me wrong I'm not an avid ar user but you can't exclude those variables. Nerf them both and let freedom reign with a shotgun blast!!
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1297
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:28:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 
 FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:Well the heavy will be easier to kill with splash damage. With the AR you have to make every bullet count so it takes more skill. With MD you just equip the assault variant and let the explosives spammage do the job.
 -XOXO
 
 It only takes 4x longer..
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1297
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:30:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 
 Lucifalic wrote:What about damage to armour bonus? And this is assuming every round from ar hit. Don't get me wrong I'm not an avid ar user but you can't exclude those variables. Nerf them both and let freedom reign with a shotgun blast!! 
 Some variable left out to keep calculation simple, I chose the sentinel though because it has an even amount of shield and armor, before adding tank mods.
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        |  mikegunnz
 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
 
 633
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:32:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 
 Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 
 I hadn't played the game in a month, just started back up several days ago. Same with forums... so I missed out on all the Flaylock/MD arguments. But, your comparo is a bit apples/oranges. There are a number of factors you're overlooking.
 Just a couple:
 1. If you miss with MD, you still cause damage. If you miss with AR, you do 0 dmg. (this is HUGE, in a game where players have high mobility and hit detection is questionable... at best) Leading into point 2...
 2. TTK is only a small factor into the effectiveness of a weapon. Especially since many players strafe. (or atlest are running while being shot) This nullifies the TTK stat a bit, especially in a game that has high mobility.
 3. Getting hit with MD causes victim's aim to be thrown off, and vision impaired slightly. Not the case with AR.
 
 While I do think the MD is OP, I won't bother arguing for/against it here. Just point out that the argument has a lot more "grey" not just black and white.
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        |  Cosgar
 ParagonX
 
 4033
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:34:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 Oh no! OP used math! How will the nerf brigade counter?
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        |  ReGnYuM
 TeamPlayers
 EoN.
 
 694
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:38:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 
 Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 
 Paren is this how you plan your battles before going into a match by doing basic math.
 
 Might be the reason why you're doing so bad in PC
  
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1301
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:41:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
 
 mikegunnz wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 I hadn't played the game in a month, just started back up several days ago. Same with forums... so I missed out on all the Flaylock/MD arguments. But, your compared is a bit apples/oranges. There are a number of factors you're overlooking.  Just a couple: 1. If you miss with MD, you still cause damage. If you miss with AR, you do 0 dmg. (this is HUGE, in a game where players have high mobility and hit detection is questionable... at best) Leading into point 2... 2. TTK is only a small factor into the effectiveness of a weapon. Especially since many players strafe. (or atlest are running while being shot) This nullifies the TTK stat a bit, especially in a game that has high mobility. 3. Getting hit with MD causes victim's aim to be thrown off, and vision impaired slightly. Not the case with AR. While I do think the MD is OP, I won't bother arguing for/against it here. Just point out that the argument has a lot more "grey" not just black and white. 
 Like I said, certain variables left out. These 2 weapon systems have completely different functional roles (main rifle vs area denial) The mass driver direct damage is just a bonus for scoring a direct hit, which I can get consistently by timing my shots instead of spamming.
 
 If you want to account for missing shots with the AR and bad hit detection, double its time to kill. You will have to double the MD direct time to kill as well. Still better than the splash time to kill.
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1301
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:44:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
 
 ReGnYuM wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 Paran is this how you plan your battles before going into a match by doing basic math. Might be the reason why you're doing so bad in PC   
 heh, saw garbage on your team ending with KDR in 4-17....
 
 In PC, with equally skilled and speced players, AR beats MD, as you saw first hand.
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        |  xLTShinySidesx
 Sardaukar Merc Guild
 General Tso's Alliance
 
 566
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:45:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
 MD is not op, people are just mad that there's now another viable weapon available.
 
 I think it's more of a shock factor for the people getting killed by something new (fixed).
 
 
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        |  Vespasian Andendare
 Resheph Interstellar Strategy
 Gallente Federation
 
 10
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:45:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
 
 Zero Notion wrote:Maybe this addresses the problem on a larger scale. I'm not saying to add strict FF in public matches, but if there was some reduced damage FF implemented, and of course a method to kick players, then I think it'd address much of the spammy weapon behavior that we see so prevalent in public matches.no FF in pub = world of MD spam. 
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        |  ReGnYuM
 TeamPlayers
 EoN.
 
 695
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:47:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
 
 Paran Tadec wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 Paran is this how you plan your battles before going into a match by doing basic math. Might be the reason why you're doing so bad in PC   heh, saw garbage on your team ending with KDR in 4-17.... In PC, with equally skilled and speced players, AR beats MD, as you saw first hand.  
 MD + FLUX beats Ar all day everyday
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1306
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:50:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
 
 ReGnYuM wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crutch much?
 Paran is this how you plan your battles before going into a match by doing basic math. Might be the reason why you're doing so bad in PC   heh, saw garbage on your team ending with KDR in 4-17.... In PC, with equally skilled and speced players, AR beats MD, as you saw first hand.  MD + FLUX beats Ar all day everyday 
 So AR users cant carry grenades now??????
 
 AR range > grenade throwing range.
 
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        |  Arkena Wyrnspire
 Turalyon 514
 
 2417
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:52:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
 These numbers are assuming you're hitting with all your shots, which is much much easier to do with the MD. You barely even need to aim with it.
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1306
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:54:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
 
 Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:These numbers are assuming you're hitting with all your shots, which is much much easier to do with the MD. You barely even need to aim with it. 
 Try again, if you miss half of the shots with the AR, it still kills faster.
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        |  Kekklian Noobatronic
 Goonfeet
 Top Men.
 
 290
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:56:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
 
 Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 Crutch much?
 
 In a world with poor control systems, broken aim assists, and all around horrible input methods, it does not matter how much damage you do on paper with an AR, the MD's explosion radius means it lands more shots more often than a spray and pray AR user. That's why it's OP - it has larger explosion radius than a grenade with healthy damage, all in an easy-to-aim package.
 
 That's why it's broken. So, how about you take your paper maths and get out.
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        |  xLTShinySidesx
 Sardaukar Merc Guild
 General Tso's Alliance
 
 569
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:58:00 -
          [21] - Quote 
 
 Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:These numbers are assuming you're hitting with all your shots, which is much much easier to do with the MD. You barely even need to aim with it. 
 You don't "aim" with it, you walk rounds into the target because of the awful aiming mechanism paired with the fact that the round drops off the table after being shot..
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        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1311
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 15:58:00 -
          [22] - Quote 
 
 Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 Crutch much?
 In a world with poor control systems, broken aim assists, and all around horrible input methods, it does not matter how much damage you do on paper with an AR, the MD's explosion radius means it lands more shots more often than a spray and pray AR user. That's why it's OP - it has larger explosion radius than a grenade with healthy damage, all in an easy-to-aim package. That's why it's broken. So, how about you take your paper maths and get out. 
 I know reading comprehension isnt something goons excel at, but please reread the thread, accounting for poor hit detection and misses, the AR still outperforms the mass driver's splash.
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        |  XeroTheBigBoss
 TeamPlayers
 EoN.
 
 900
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 16:02:00 -
          [23] - Quote 
 
 Paran Tadec wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 Crutch much?
 In a world with poor control systems, broken aim assists, and all around horrible input methods, it does not matter how much damage you do on paper with an AR, the MD's explosion radius means it lands more shots more often than a spray and pray AR user. That's why it's OP - it has larger explosion radius than a grenade with healthy damage, all in an easy-to-aim package. That's why it's broken. So, how about you take your paper maths and get out. I know reading comprehension isnt something goons excel at, but please reread the thread, accounting for poor hit detection and misses, the AR still outperforms the mass driver's splash. 
 
 You are such a failure.... I guess when you suck at the game as bad as you do you gotta try to be relevant at something. 3-12 much?
  It's not the fact that you got your face smashed in. That's to be expected. It's the FACT that the first game you were bragging that even though you loss the first match you went positive as if to say you are a good player and did what ya could but your team fell short. Well the very next game 5 mins later you went 3-12 LMFAO! | 
      
      
        |  Paran Tadec
 Ancient Exiles
 Negative-Feedback
 
 1311
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.08.08 16:06:00 -
          [24] - Quote 
 
 XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Lets take a look at the Duvolle AR, and the Freedom mass driver. Both are the prototype level V weapon in their catagory. 
 At Operation V the Duvolle does 37.4 dmg, and the Freedom does 266.2 (127.6 splash). Add Prof 3, and you get an extra 9% damage, raising the damage to 40.8 and 290.2 (138.6) respectively.
 
 The Duvolle has a ROF of 750 RPM. The Freedom, 60 RPM. Without including time for reloading each weapon, the Duvolle has a DPS of 467.5 at Op V, 510 at Prof III. The Freedom has a DPS of 266.2 (direct) and 127.2 (splash) at Op V, 290.2 (direct) and 138.6 (splash) at Prof III.
 
 
 Approx time to kill a standard Sentinel:
 AR: 1.58 sec.
 MD direct: 2.79
 MD splash: 5.84
 
 Tell me again how the MD is OP.
 
 Crutch much?
 In a world with poor control systems, broken aim assists, and all around horrible input methods, it does not matter how much damage you do on paper with an AR, the MD's explosion radius means it lands more shots more often than a spray and pray AR user. That's why it's OP - it has larger explosion radius than a grenade with healthy damage, all in an easy-to-aim package. That's why it's broken. So, how about you take your paper maths and get out. I know reading comprehension isnt something goons excel at, but please reread the thread, accounting for poor hit detection and misses, the AR still outperforms the mass driver's splash. You are such a failure.... I guess when you suck at the game as bad as you do you gotta try to be relevant at something. 3-12 much?    It's not the fact that you got your face smashed in. That's to be expected. It's the FACT that the first game you were bragging that even though you loss the first match you went positive as if to say you are a good player and did what ya could but your team fell short. Well the very next game 5 mins later you went 3-12 LMFAO! 
 
 Keep bringing it up, because all it shows is that in PC with equally equipped teams, the AR > MD. The only thing you've brought to the table is a 13-1 pub stomp. I wonder how puny and insignificant your life must be if you have to chestbeat this much on a gaming forum.
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