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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3146
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. I've been hoping something like that would be implemented eventually. 2. Couldn't be happier. I'll actually feel like I'm being useful now when I support my Corporation. 3. Regnum made a post a week or so back about implementing a ranking system similar to EVE FW in Dust. Maybe have the strike given to the highest ranked "officer" on that side? Might cause the same problems you mentioned, but just throwing it out there. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3156
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Posted - 2013.08.15 16:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jade Hasegawa wrote:Really? The game is full of bugs and you want to feck about with the orbitals?
*sigh* ok my 0.02 ISK:
Leave the system as is for now, not all the corps are guaranteed to have EVE players and may not want to deal with that
What I WOULD like to see is various typesof them
Only way Ican see it working atm : SP into orbital targeting system with a choice of dif ones to go to;
IE precison strike that we already have, but its a war on a planet so why cant we have called in artillery strikes as off map support?
Also as an Orbitalwhy not a Missile/torpedo strike option? Are you serious?
CCP FoxFour wrote:DISCLAIMER: This is a discussion about stuff that has not happened yet and is not planned to happen for at least a few months at the earliest. There was a discussion on IRC about it yesterday and I wanted to keep the discussion going. Nothing in here is finalized yet, work has not even begun on it yet. /disclaimer I mean, you quoted the bloody post. Did you even read it? |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3157
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Posted - 2013.08.16 01:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:Eve pilot should do the targeting. If he kills a lot of blue dots should it affect his faction standings? NOPE.
Total game breaker right there. Remember all those threads about EVE players just randomly showing up and killing Dust players for kicks?
That's what that would result in. No amount of faction standing loss will prevent people from rolling new FW alts just to troll Dust players. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3308
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Posted - 2013.08.24 23:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Exionous wrote:I wouldn't trust an EVE player with my planetary conquest orbitals, where they are 10x more important anyway.
I wouldn't trust an EVE player with an overheated laser rifle... And see, this is the problem.
You play a game where the point is the connection with EVE, and then insist on being able to avoid anyone who plays EVE.
Unless this is a troll post, in which case I just ate it. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3328
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Posted - 2013.08.25 18:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Orbital Strikes need to have multiple ammo types and affects. While the warbage should be capable of giving operable support such as electronic warfare and the like.
Each space craft should be able to use any one of their weapons to drop a strike, however to make sure its not overpowered only spacecraft of a specific size or lower should be able to connect to the satilite. This adds the idea of going for a smaller ship for quicker weaker strike, or put in something a little bigger.
Laser weapons are all about prescion and range, so a laser strike will have a very small area of effect but carry a lethal total damage capable of destroying any vehicle or installation, but serves very little purpose against infantry. While plasma strike will be purely infantry based, even llav have chance to survive, the guy inside nit so much.
As for contracts for providibg support a faction should be capable of issue merc contracts which means for the length of the contract the affected parties will be shown as allies, information should be given via communications once the contract is accepted. Mercs should be able to take out these contracts even if they intend to awox later on!! Well, we already have multiple ammo types for EVE-delivered orbitals, and I actually addressed the size concern in an earlier post of mine.
Say that a frigate takes the same amount of time on the "beacon" to get a strike as it did in the FanFest tournament, so around 30 seconds.
For every size up, it takes longer.
60 for a cruiser. 90 for a Battleship. 120 for a Dreadnaught.
Like that. So you can wait for a bigger strike, but the enemy might use the delay to push up and wreck you. You have to take a calculate risk on larger assets. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3329
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Posted - 2013.08.25 20:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Orbital Strikes need to have multiple ammo types and affects. While the warbage should be capable of giving operable support such as electronic warfare and the like.
Each space craft should be able to use any one of their weapons to drop a strike, however to make sure its not overpowered only spacecraft of a specific size or lower should be able to connect to the satilite. This adds the idea of going for a smaller ship for quicker weaker strike, or put in something a little bigger.
Laser weapons are all about prescion and range, so a laser strike will have a very small area of effect but carry a lethal total damage capable of destroying any vehicle or installation, but serves very little purpose against infantry. While plasma strike will be purely infantry based, even llav have chance to survive, the guy inside nit so much.
As for contracts for providibg support a faction should be capable of issue merc contracts which means for the length of the contract the affected parties will be shown as allies, information should be given via communications once the contract is accepted. Mercs should be able to take out these contracts even if they intend to awox later on!! Well, we already have multiple ammo types for EVE-delivered orbitals, and I actually addressed the size concern in an earlier post of mine. Say that a frigate takes the same amount of time on the "beacon" to get a strike as it did in the FanFest tournament, so around 30 seconds. For every size up, it takes longer. 60 for a cruiser. 90 for a Battleship. 120 for a Dreadnaught. Like that. So you can wait for a bigger strike, but the enemy might use the delay to push up and wreck you. You have to take a calculate risk on larger assets. Well yeah but if you say it takes 120 for a dreadnaught but your getting attacked you could rush an attack for lesser accuracy So you mean get that same attack, but it has less of a chance to land where you want if the timer's not up?
The issue is that if they go with the precedent set by Templar One, "danger close" would be 900 meters. I don't think a reduction in accuracy would stop you from pasting whatever you aimed that kind of firepower at. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3382
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Posted - 2013.08.30 16:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
SolusNothos wrote:I'm late to this party and haven't read any of the other replies yet.
1: Yep remove warbarge strikes form FW/PC, or cut the WP needed for Orbitals. Either is fine by me.
So onto some thoughts and ideas for Orbitals and Eve-Dust Link in general.
1: Make orbitals more substantial. Currently it doesn't FEEL any better than a Warbarge strike. Hard to convince people to use the Orbital if they don't see the point. 2: Damage patterns. Allow the Capsuleer to set how the orbital strike lands, such as a line, a spread or all in one small cluster. 3: Intel map when connected. Give the Capsuleer a window that has a map with icons on it representing where all the Dust stuff is located. Only has to update with server tick's. GIves the capsuleer something to do while waiting. 4: Orbital repositioning. Nothing sucks more than an orbital that misses everything. Allow the capsuleer to adjust, up to a point, the precise strike location. 5: Allow the Capsuleer to deploy corp assets such as Tanks himself. Offload some of the strategic logistics. All assets dropped this way have to be donated to the Corp from Dust beforehand. 6: Indirect strikes. Split the map up into grids and allow the Capsuleer to bombard a section randomly. NO precision with these, they just drop haphazardly. Could force a certain minimum time bombarding a section, like say 45 seconds. A way to earn WP for a capsuleer. I'm going to add to this joining the Team channel. One of the biggest issues with trying to offer support is having to put everyone in a custom channel just so the EVE player can talk to them.
You can set up connecting to the district itself as a trigger that links you to your allies' Team channel. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3389
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Posted - 2013.08.31 01:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I still stand by my original post in the thread, as quoted below. I'd want to edit a few typoes, but I'm half asleep and can't be bothered right now. Garrett Blacknova wrote:For PC at least, I think it's worth keeping the NPC Precision Strikes. Not every PC-capable Corp in DUST is going to have EVE support on call. For now, most do, and in future, most will, but not all, and not forever. I understand (and agree with) encouraging the EVE-DUST link, but this isn't encouraging, it's forcing it. DUST-exclusive Corps need to be capable of functioning - if at a slight disadvantage - without the reliance on EVE players. Corps with limited EVE support need options when their Capsuleers are unreachable.
And on that note, for PC, I think there should be a WP limit on squads calling in Orbitals, AND a limit on EVE players being available for them. So you need to capture the beacon so your team has access to an Orbital Strike, AND the ground forces need to build up their WP to call it in. When a squad has called in their first strike, they need more WP before they can call in another, making it more likely that other squads will have the WP and that top squad won't any more. If it looks like the space battle is turning against you, Precision Strikes are still available. If your team can't capture the beacon and you need urgent support, you can also use a Precision Strike instead of waiting. The EVE support would be more effective/powerful, and ideally you want to wait for that opportunity, but that won't be the only option.
Faction Warfare is less likely to have these problems. You're automatically being targeted on areas in which there's an active space battle, which means there will usually be ships present fighting for both sides. In this situation, the elimination of Precision Strikes is more reasonable, and helps to make FW feel more like it's empire vs. empire combat rather than the player-owned Corporations or the regular NPC Corps going against one another.
Also for FW, it might work better to have sequential orbital requests. Availability could determined purely by EVE players controlling the beacon, and the highest WP count for a squad would mean they get priority on the strike. If a squad uses the strike, they become ineligible for another strike until all other squads have had a chance. Or they have their accumulated WP total reset for purposes of determining priority on an Orbital. The former option would mean that you guarantee to "cycle" through the squads during the course of the match, with the "best" players getting the first orbital, and the team's lesser-skilled players providing support later in the match. Using the other option would allow a particularly dominant squad to take all the orbital support themselves, but they would have to be performing a LOT better than the rest of the DUST Mercs on that side of the conflict. A Corp that's trying to do PC with no EVE players should suffer for that.
Most Corps are forming alliances that also have EVE Corps, which was part of the intention of this game all along: to have us both cooperate.
If this has to wait until those orbital cannons can be finished, then fine, but NPC strikes just eliminate any interest in working with EVE players for orbitals. Even though our strikes do more damage, people will still gravitate toward the "easy" and "safe" option, even when it makes no sense to do so. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3404
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Posted - 2013.09.02 17:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:A Corp that's trying to do PC with no EVE players should suffer for that.
Most Corps are forming alliances that also have EVE Corps, which was part of the intention of this game all along: to have us both cooperate.
If this has to wait until those orbital cannons can be finished, then fine, but NPC strikes just eliminate any interest in working with EVE players for orbitals. Even though our strikes do more damage, people will still gravitate toward the "easy" and "safe" option, even when it makes no sense to do so. Re-read my post. Precision Strikes don't have advantages under my proposed system. The only arguable advantage is the result of the "smaller blast radius" disadvantage - they have less collateral damage and can be used with less risk of friendly fire in mid-range combat. Also, if there's a cooldown on the use of the Precision Strikes, then EVE Orbitals will be able to "fill in" when a Precision Strike is still on cooldown, meaning EVE players can provide more consistent fire support. The devs have directly stated that they DON'T WANT TO FORCE players to rely on the EVE/DUST link. I agree that it should be encouraged, and should give an advantage when it's used, but I disagree that going without should totally gimp your Corp in one of the primary aspects of being a Corp. EDIT: Also worth mentioning, I think there needs to be a delay between calling for a Precision Strike and the Warbarge actually firing. That would negate the one area where people can legitimately argue that there's an advantage to Precision Strikes. I guess I can see that, but I would still say that the "NPC" strikes wouldn't be necessary if we had the means to fire back into orbit in-game. That way, even if you didn't have EVE players for support, you would still be able to defend yourself from them if your opponent brought some.
Don't forget that while they said they dont' want to force cooperation, they have said that War Barges are going to be EVE ships piloted by EVE players, which is where the "NPC" strikes come from in the first place.
By that reckoning, it looks like one way or another, using EVE players would be the only way to attain orbital strikes outside of an Instant Battle. |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3854
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Posted - 2013.11.25 00:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack Vanus wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:SolusNothos wrote:I'm late to this party and haven't read any of the other replies yet.
1: Yep remove warbarge strikes form FW/PC, or cut the WP needed for Orbitals. Either is fine by me.
So onto some thoughts and ideas for Orbitals and Eve-Dust Link in general.
1: Make orbitals more substantial. Currently it doesn't FEEL any better than a Warbarge strike. Hard to convince people to use the Orbital if they don't see the point. 2: Damage patterns. Allow the Capsuleer to set how the orbital strike lands, such as a line, a spread or all in one small cluster. 3: Intel map when connected. Give the Capsuleer a window that has a map with icons on it representing where all the Dust stuff is located. Only has to update with server tick's. GIves the capsuleer something to do while waiting. 4: Orbital repositioning. Nothing sucks more than an orbital that misses everything. Allow the capsuleer to adjust, up to a point, the precise strike location. 5: Allow the Capsuleer to deploy corp assets such as Tanks himself. Offload some of the strategic logistics. All assets dropped this way have to be donated to the Corp from Dust beforehand. 6: Indirect strikes. Split the map up into grids and allow the Capsuleer to bombard a section randomly. NO precision with these, they just drop haphazardly. Could force a certain minimum time bombarding a section, like say 45 seconds. A way to earn WP for a capsuleer. I'm going to add to this joining the Team channel. One of the biggest issues with trying to offer support is having to put everyone in a custom channel just so the EVE player can talk to them. You can set up connecting to the district itself as a trigger that links you to your allies' Team channel. Have the EVE player make the channel... its a lot easier for him. You're missing my point, though.
The whole idea is that you connect into the same channel that all the Dust players get put into automatically when they drop into a match. You want to make the coordination between both games as simple as possible.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3855
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Posted - 2013.11.25 12:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack Vanus wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Jack Vanus wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
You can set up connecting to the district itself as a trigger that links you to your allies' Team channel.
Have the EVE player make the channel... its a lot easier for him. You're missing my point, though. The whole idea is that you connect into the same channel that all the Dust players get put into automatically when they drop into a match. You want to make the coordination between both games as simple as possible. No, I get what you are writing... the problem is in the operational coordination... getting into comms by connecting is already too late. If you are getting pilots that way anyway make two or three dedicated channels to have your groups use them. its not hard. What you are postulating actually limits your ability to coordinate ops. What I will state more clearly is if the pilot is not already in comms with a team long before the point at which the ground team are going to start a match on the ground that ground team is unlikely to get many OB. It just doesnt work well. We coordinate plenty of OB and not just for our own teams but with others as well. The team channel connection at the point of connecting to the channel is sub optimal... and probably actually a drawback for a number of reasons I wont get into on here. I will let you figure them out on your own. When I was in CRONOS I was pretty much the only EVE player who even bothered providing orbitals, which had me running all over the place every day to cover our PC matches. Coordinating before a match wasn't hard at all because I could just has out details over text and then join into the audio chat when the time came. As well, our EVE-side directors would update the Alliance bulletin with a full list of all our PC matches so pilots knew where to be and at what time at a glance.
Many Dust Corps also have custom channels that they use, which can be used to hash things out over audio if preferred. A factor you might not have considered is that having the entire team in a custom channel with other players, both Dust and EVE, seems to contribute to lag in PC matches.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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