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The point of battle academy should be to train new people.

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Hawkin P Molon Labe. League of Infamy 163	Posted - 2013.08.07 04:51:00 - [1] - Quote Pitting them up against the rest of the community (most of whom have over 7mil SP) after getting 8 kills (400 Warpoints) is just going to make the any new player delete this game off their PS3. "but our metrics suggest the median new player is scoring about 100 WP per battle, so this has them graduating from the Academy after probably 3-5 battles" Are you kidding me? Yes you TOO can master dust after playing only 3-5 battles. I could agree after 3-5 battles they should be able to CHOOSE to play any gamemode they want, but they should have the option to play Battle Academy long after 10k Warpoints. Nevermind 400.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1072	Posted - 2013.08.07 04:54:00 - [2] - Quote Silly Hawkin, you're such a noob with only 5 kills. Come back when you have at least 8 kills, until then you don't have any understanding of Dust to make a valid point. 8 kills = Elite Duster
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 385	Posted - 2013.08.07 04:56:00 - [3] - Quote You could do: 0 - 400WP: Ambush 400 - 1000WP: Domination 1000 - 2000WP: Skirmish @2000WP: New Eden 'Unlocked', but you can continue through the battle academy rotation again if you would like (With higher/scaled WP values). Maybe you at a marker or flag to denote how many times someone has gone through the entirety of the battle academy and only allow people who have gone through the academy an equal number of times to queue into the same match.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1072	Posted - 2013.08.07 04:58:00 - [4] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: You could do: 0 - 400WP: Ambush 400 - 1000WP: Domination 1000 - 2000WP: Skirmish @2000WP: New Eden 'Unlocked', but you can continue through the battle academy rotation again if you would like (With higher/scaled WP values). Maybe you at a marker or flag to denote how many times someone has gone through the entirety of the battle academy and only allow people who have gone through the academy an equal number of times to queue into the same match. That would require a larger player base than we currently have. We already have to combine Ambush OMS with normal Ambush.
Zekain Kade TeamPlayers EoN. 1406	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:00:00 - [5] - Quote What if they don't kill? what if they only hack, or revive?
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1072	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:05:00 - [6] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: What if they don't kill? what if they only hack, or revive? If you hack 4 null cannons or revive 7 people you too are an elite Duster with full understanding of the mechanics and will be a valuable asset to your team as well as a formidable foe to your prototype enemies.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 385	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:05:00 - [7] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Piercing Serenity wrote: You could do: 0 - 400WP: Ambush 400 - 1000WP: Domination 1000 - 2000WP: Skirmish @2000WP: New Eden 'Unlocked', but you can continue through the battle academy rotation again if you would like (With higher/scaled WP values). Maybe you at a marker or flag to denote how many times someone has gone through the entirety of the battle academy and only allow people who have gone through the academy an equal number of times to queue into the same match. That would require a larger player base than we currently have. We already have to combine Ambush OMS with normal Ambush. Sure, but the numbers aren't important right now. We're just throwing out hypothetical on a forum. The most important thing is the idea behind it. Is the idea fair? If it is, if and when the player base rises, we could use this one (or whichever idea is more popular/useful).
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Pure Innocence. EoN. 176	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:07:00 - [8] - Quote This is them admitting that the academy is useless in terms of training, so they said f*** it and made it almost non existent. I think til the academy is actually good, might be better this way. Fix the academy> Make it 20k war points.(this actually is pretty substantial for noobies) Make all modes selectable (Academy-ambush, Academy-domination, Academy-skirmish) Release the cap for new players til 2million SP. Add a STD & militia only game mode for everyone. Add a no squad game mode too.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 35	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:09:00 - [9] - Quote Get rid of Academy and introduce tiered PVE challenges. Open the real DUST up from the start so vets can go straight in, but have challenges for players to familiarize themselves with the game until they are comfortable.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1072	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:15:00 - [10] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: This is them admitting that the academy is useless in terms of training, so they said f*** it and made it almost non existent. I think til the academy is actually good, might be better this way. Fix the academy> Make it 20k war points.(this actually is pretty substantial for noobies) Make all modes selectable (Academy-ambush, Academy-domination, Academy-skirmish) Release the cap for new players til 2million SP. Also Add a STD & militia only game mode for everyone. Add a no squad game mode too. The STD & MLT mode would be popular for both squads & solo dudes so many people would play it, meaning the no squad mode wouldn't soak up all solo dudes & reg matches soak up all squads. I like all these ideas except a STD & militia game mode. If there was a mode where I could be at the highest level of effectiveness using just standard gear, then why would I want advanced or prototype gear? Just stick with standard and I'm already at the top, defeats the purpose a bit IMO.

THEAMAZING POTHEAD Pure Innocence. EoN. 176	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:25:00 - [11] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: This is them admitting that the academy is useless in terms of training, so they said f*** it and made it almost non existent. I think til the academy is actually good, might be better this way. Fix the academy> Make it 20k war points.(this actually is pretty substantial for noobies) Make all modes selectable (Academy-ambush, Academy-domination, Academy-skirmish) Release the cap for new players til 2million SP. Also Add a STD & militia only game mode for everyone. Add a no squad game mode too. The STD & MLT mode would be popular for both squads & solo dudes so many people would play it, meaning the no squad mode wouldn't soak up all solo dudes & reg matches soak up all squads. I like all these ideas except a STD & militia game mode. If there was a mode where I could be at the highest level of effectiveness using just standard gear, then why would I want advanced or prototype gear? Just stick with standard and I'm already at the top, defeats the purpose a bit IMO. PC,FW(once its important) and specific modes, if you want to only play ambush, or a specific mode, you should have to choose that mode, because STD&MLT, or non squad modes will be either mix of all modes, or one mode(like STD&MLT ambush only) The point is to give noobs a hideout to not get outgeared 24/7, but give them incentive to play other modes, I'd be fine if the STD&MLT mode gave a payout of half the normal isk but was ambush only.
castba Penguin's March 52	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:25:00 - [12] - Quote New Player Experience should be (and always should have been) PvE where they can slowly build up skills and get used to how the game controls/responds. Once they have found that they like the game, then they can dip their feet in PvP, go back to PvE after the initial stomping and get a bit better. Then go back and give PvP another go. Repeat until they are comfortable in PvP. Baptism by fire is all well and good for stubborn buggers that can see the potential in the game and strive to get better, but Dust is in a market that has a high priority on instant gratification. Getting routinely stomped early on would not lead to enjoyment... and being that there is no monetary investment, no issue moving on to one of the 11ty billion other FPS games floating around. Throwing in some PvE stuff - even if it was cleaning drones out a Skirmish map - would give newer players somewhere to go to get better and enjoy the fitting depth that the game has to offer. It would also give the vets something different to do. Seriously, I would have thought that it would have been a higher priority than "on the shelf for safe keeping" as IWS stated in another thread.
Sampson David Molon Labe. League of Infamy 32	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:34:00 - [13] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Pitting them up against the rest of the community (most of whom have over 7mil SP) after getting 8 kills (400 Warpoints) is just going to make the any new player delete this game off their PS3. "but our metrics suggest the median new player is scoring about 100 WP per battle, so this has them graduating from the Academy after probably 3-5 battles" Are you kidding me? Yes you TOO can master dust after playing only 3-5 battles. I could agree after 3-5 battles they should be able to CHOOSE to play any gamemode they want, but they should have the option to play Battle Academy long after 10k Warpoints. Nevermind 400. Who cares about community feed back our server data is all need. It wasn't like it wasn't a pub stomp before! Brilliant idea ! New player retention here we come! Enjoy newberries!
Chimichanga66605 Vader's Taco Shack 2	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:41:00 - [14] - Quote It's up to all Mercs who've been around any decent amount of time in New Eden to help new players. Forget the Academy, they are all over Local Chat looking to squad-up and needs to know what they're doing. Help them out, if anything else it helps the grind. Or you can just enjoy the Turkey-Shoot while it lasts before they delete....your call. Chimi out, 07
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1076	Posted - 2013.08.07 06:17:00 - [15] - Quote see.. i been saying real tutorial for a while, the nooby area doesn't work. and the brick wall of words one currently is not effective on new people who never played AND like(d) EVE. wonder when this is going to sink in some.
Hawkin P Molon Labe. League of Infamy 165	Posted - 2013.08.07 07:32:00 - [16] - Quote I just started playing eve a little bit about a month-ish a ago and when I started I had friend warn me, that there might a bit of a learning curve to fully understand EVE. He showed me this pic to demonstrate. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1 CCP thinks the Eve model is going to work with Dust with FPS's. What they don't understand is that EVE is the only game like it out there. They have no competition. They could require everyone that played to have to sit on a carrot while singing the theme to My Little Pony and they would still have a large following. With FPS games you have alot, no Sorry ALOT! more Competition. So you keep your 5 year plan, and I'm hoping you finally get it right, in a year. But by then I will probably be playing Destiny.
Lucrezia LeGrand Delta Enterprise 43	Posted - 2013.08.07 07:55:00 - [17] - Quote 400?? 400!!! bwahahahahaaha. wow. I'm really glad I got started way before this. 400 WP teaches you how to aim and how to pull the trigger... maybe. At 400 WP you don't even have a full understanding at how dropsuit fittings work. Good luck figuring out everything else.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 215	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:00:00 - [18] - Quote Raw data wont tell you everything CCP,just ask lightbox interactive...
Godof Thisage M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command 0	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:29:00 - [19] - Quote it is rediculous, u can easely get 400 WP without shooting a gun once. or even seeing any reds
chuckuall RestlessSpirits D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 19	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:35:00 - [20] - Quote It's all just broken these guys at ccp are determined to keep the playerbase as low as possible and continue to milk the few players they have for cash because they simply can't build the game they said. Bash me and say what you like but you know its true, the only guys left on this game are the ones who have spent mad cash. I've been here since the first build in beta and I won't lie they've burned me for about a 100 bucks but enough is enough. Stop paying to win at a free to play game and make these guys give us something worth our time and money.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7029	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:52:00 - [21] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: I just started playing eve a little bit about a month-ish a ago and when I started I had friend warn me, that there might a bit of a learning curve to fully understand EVE. He showed me this pic to demonstrate. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1 CCP thinks the Eve model is going to work with Dust with FPS's. What they don't understand is that EVE is the only game like it out there. They have no competition. They could require everyone that played to have to sit on a carrot while singing the theme to My Little Pony and they would still have a large following. With FPS games you have alot, no Sorry ALOT! more Competition. So you keep your 5 year plan, and I'm hoping you finally get it right, in a year. But by then I will probably be playing Destiny. BUWHAHAHAHAHA. The closest Eve model of how we're teaching Dust 514 players is quite similar to the days before they put in a tutorial in Eve and that was about what? 8 years ago? Anyways the current Eve model is something to get Dust 514 modeled after, to do this you need to do the following. Step 1. Zone Off 12 Planets in High Sec: Label these as starting planets for mercenaries. Make sure the said planets are not SHARED with Eve Starter systems that would cause some confusion when one player asks which shield booster is best for him and gets answered aclinarity shield warden a module only Eve has atm or even worse get told to use a module that is shared between the two but the performance disparity is quite different. Then Zone off another 12 for holding NPC corps of people who quit player made ones so they won't clutter the starting planets. This also requires to physically move players up and about within new eden in terms of location instead of being in the 'ether' Step 2. Create a new training facility area similar to merc quarters, create a neutral navigation Tutorial that would get a person familiar with Dust 514's controls of walking around in quarters, and both sides of the neocom and interacting with objects in this mode. This training facility would have other new players there and the default channel here is Dust Help which is joinable by outsiders. Create some NPC trainer agents on the facility. Each one will issue a variety of different tasks but each agent will be themed and each mission will be focused on the new idea brought in and give opportunity to use previous knowledge throughout the chain of missions that are in succession a bit more difficult. Each mission would have tutorial walk through to assist the soldier in completion the agent: Finances and Training (Shopping, Wallet, Skill Tree, Certificates, Fitting, Assets Browsing, Restocking) These missions have no deployment. Once completed the following unlocks your starting skill set and starting SP and Starting Isk as a reward and the following agents are then recommended to complete. Battlefield Basics (Movement, Soldiering, Support, Sensors, Hacking, Cover, Respawning) Advanced Battlefield (Command, Orbital Support, Communications, Squad Management, Resistances/Effectiveness, Electronic Warfare) Weaponry (Quick run down on your own races classes of weapons) Ground Vehicle Operations. (Anti-Vehicle, LAV, MAV, HAV) Flight Operations (Anti-Air, Drop Ship, Fighter, Gunship) Completion of every mission in the chain gives free copies of militia items related to the lesson so a Biotic would be given for passing the Movement Mission. Completing an entire chain gives the player a BPO starter fit or maybe the AURUM early access military grade item related to the training in significant quantity. Once all these solo missions are completed the player gets a shiny ribbon, certificate and is shipped out to his NPC's corps station and start working for his NPC corp. NPC corps taxes profits made from fights but offers tax free selling of looted items. Leaving NPC corps for a player one may eliminate the Tax on profits but puts the taxes on sold items. Increasing faction warfare loyalty would reduce the selling tax. From here the player is then thrown into his first matches, starting with ambush, By then matchmaking true skill system should be in place so that he will only be faced against other neophytes and will only face harder players as he gets better. As warppoints accumulates he then gains clearance gaining access for more 'mission types' based on current game types that would be ordered from Ambush to Domination to Skirmish, Faction Warfare, then Player Contracts for planetary conquest or faction warfare or even Corp v Corp. All players will get a new item in the room a training holographic pod where he can 'field test guns before ever bringing them onto the field or wasting SP on them. Paper targets will be the norm as usual it is not a means to play against bots. Corp Finder Tool is also added. Corp Advertiser Tool is added for corps. Squad Finder Tool is brought in as well. More Game types should be made. Players skipping the 'academy' will still receive starting isk and SP and startfit BPOs but no other items or isk/SP. That would be copying Eve more closely.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 1664	Posted - 2013.08.07 09:09:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hawkin P wrote: I just started playing eve a little bit about a month-ish a ago and when I started I had friend warn me, that there might a bit of a learning curve to fully understand EVE. He showed me this pic to demonstrate. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1 CCP thinks the Eve model is going to work with Dust with FPS's. What they don't understand is that EVE is the only game like it out there. They have no competition. They could require everyone that played to have to sit on a carrot while singing the theme to My Little Pony and they would still have a large following. With FPS games you have alot, no Sorry ALOT! more Competition. So you keep your 5 year plan, and I'm hoping you finally get it right, in a year. But by then I will probably be playing Destiny. SNIP. Far more convoluted than it needs to be and frankly insulting to teach people that you move the left stick to walk around **** like that is why people skip tutorials Far simpler way is cut out the academy completely, it does more harm than good Put in a nice simple tier based system for selecting matches with scaling rewards of isk and salvage, note I said selecting matches not matchmaking As for the other more complicated but not really things IE skill system, fittings, orbitals most of those are UI problems since lets be real here, the fittings arent really that more complicated than COD fittings and the skill tree could still be streamlined so much more while orbitals and other squad commands are the one thing that is fairly out of norm and could use some explaining but not in a heavy handed wall of text manner Maybe a short pop up in nice attention grabbing bold when you first create a squad as the leader telling you there are now squad commands and a sentence on each, possibly with a "Would you like to know more" leading to the long winded delivery Also let CCP know that the remaining characters counter for a post is not accurate, it stopped me from typing at 51 characters remaining hence the snip
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7032	Posted - 2013.08.07 10:27:00 - [23] - Quote I will say though we need to get rid of the page long tutorials.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 287	Posted - 2013.08.07 10:47:00 - [24] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: It's up to all Mercs who've been around any decent amount of time in New Eden to help new players. Forget the Academy, they are all over Local Chat looking to squad-up and needs to know what they're doing. Help them out, if anything else it helps the grind. Or you can just enjoy the Turkey-Shoot while it lasts before they delete....your call. Chimi out, 07 I was just thinking this very same thing. In a game that (as I understand it, at least) is supposed to be player-driven, there seem to be an awful lot of people that expect CCP to train the new players for them, rather than taking the initiative to recruit and train these players themselves. Sure, there's Dust U and a couple others that do this, but the majority seem content with stomping the newbs, chasing them away, and then coming to the forums to blame CCP for allowing them to do it. Just like AFKing: people complain about it constantly, tear CCP apart for not doing anything about it, and then AFK themselves, and brag about it in the forums. We, as a community, sure are good at pointing fingers and criticizing, but not so good at stepping up and taking responsibility for governing ourselves. CCP made our world, so the mechanics of how it operates is their department but, ultimately, it's up to us, as a community, to choose how we behave and interact with one-another within it.
Hawkin P Molon Labe. League of Infamy 171	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:00:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [quote=Hawkin P] ...That would be copying Eve more closely. I meant the EVE model of moving slowly, building the game up over time, having a 5 year plan for Dust when there is very little to get people interested in the game now. Battle academy is far from a perfect solution, NPC matches would be great, as well as a long list of other things. But players should have the option to go into Battle Academy long after earning 10k WP. I mean 80-90% of the pubs matches I play end up in red lines some noobs within the first 3 minutes of a game of skirmish or Domination.


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