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FATCannon - XOXO
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I need to know exactly which are the stacking penalties for each module. I know they aren't the same as EVE. Can you please tell us the %? I'm suspicious that you don't reveal stacking penalties in game or forums because you're constantly ninja-tweaking them. I need to know because it can be the difference from equipping an extra module or not.
-XOXO |
Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
834
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
They are the same as in EVE. |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Pure Innocence. EoN.
176
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
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Eldest Dragon
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
68
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:They are the same as in EVE.
This is what im going on, there is no for sure way to know, as of now though its the only info we have to go on. |
Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
834
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eldest Dragon wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:They are the same as in EVE. This is what im going on, there is no for sure way to know, as of now though its the only info we have to go on. No way to know for sure? Sure there is, and it's 100% confirmed that they are the same as in EVE. |
Eldest Dragon
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
68
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Eldest Dragon wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:They are the same as in EVE. This is what im going on, there is no for sure way to know, as of now though its the only info we have to go on. No way to know for sure? Sure there is, and it's 100% confirmed that they are the same as in EVE.
nice.. source? |
Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
408
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
I am monitoring this thread. |
FATCannon - XOXO
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
I stacked 3 basic rechargers (15% each).
The first 2 gave me 30% increase at 32.5 shield recharge: 25 x 0.30 + 25 = 32.5
But then I equip a third one and it gave 35.28 shield recharge. I can see a stacking penalty here because that's a 41.1% increase instead of 45%, but it's clearly not the same as EVE. The third module is giving more than 60% effectiveness.
-XOXO
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Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
541
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
the math is harder with resistance mods. Most people seem to think that without stacking penalties 2 10% resistance mods would result in 20% increased resistance.
Do it with cardio regulators instead. Less chance you'll mess it up.
Also the UI isn't necessarily truthful, and the stacking mods aren't necessarily correctly applied (I'm looking at you, ferroscale/reactive plates). |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Pure Innocence. EoN.
176
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
i just posted a way to find out the stacking penalties....whatever. 1st penalty(second module) is about 75.2% efficient, 2nd penalty is around 50% efficient and because the 3rd penalty is in the high 20% efficiency ratings it makes it useless to use more than 3 of any stacking penaltied modules |
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Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
836
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
FATCannon - XOXO wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
I stacked 3 basic rechargers (15% each). The first 2 gave me 30% increase at 32.5 shield recharge: 25 x 0.30 + 25 = 32.5 But then I equip a third one and it gave 35.28 shield recharge. I can see a stacking penalty here because that's a 41.1% increase instead of 45%, but it's clearly not the same as EVE. The third module is giving more than 60% effectiveness. -XOXO Using EVE's stacking penalty numbers:
25 * 1.15 * 1.1305 (87% of 15%) * 1.0855 (57% of 15%) = 35.28. |
Eldest Dragon
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
69
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:FATCannon - XOXO wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
I stacked 3 basic rechargers (15% each). The first 2 gave me 30% increase at 32.5 shield recharge: 25 x 0.30 + 25 = 32.5 But then I equip a third one and it gave 35.28 shield recharge. I can see a stacking penalty here because that's a 41.1% increase instead of 45%, but it's clearly not the same as EVE. The third module is giving more than 60% effectiveness. -XOXO Using EVE's stacking penalty numbers: 25 * 1.15 * 1.1305 (87% of 15%) * 1.0855 (57% of 15%) = 32.28.
We all know the numbers from eve ben, at least most of us, but where is this 100% confirmed bro.. id really like to know. |
Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
836
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Eldest Dragon wrote:We all know the numbers from eve ben, at least most of us, but where is this 100% confirmed bro.. id really like to know. It matches with the numbers you get ingame? A lot of people know for a fact it's the same numbers as in EVE. |
FATCannon - XOXO
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:FATCannon - XOXO wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
I stacked 3 basic rechargers (15% each). The first 2 gave me 30% increase at 32.5 shield recharge: 25 x 0.30 + 25 = 32.5 But then I equip a third one and it gave 35.28 shield recharge. I can see a stacking penalty here because that's a 41.1% increase instead of 45%, but it's clearly not the same as EVE. The third module is giving more than 60% effectiveness. -XOXO Using EVE's stacking penalty numbers: 25 * 1.15 * 1.1305 (87% of 15%) * 1.0855 (57% of 15%) = 32.28.
Ok thanks. Seems like the stacking penalties start after equipping the third module and it applies to the second module as well. Thanks again.
-XOXO
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Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
408
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
32.28 =/= 35.28
Did someone make a typo or is this still a mystery? |
Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
836
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:32.28 =/= 35.28
Did someone make a typo or is this still a mystery? Yes it was a typo that I have now corrected |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Pure Innocence. EoN.
176
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
the math is harder with resistance mods. Most people seem to think that without stacking penalties 2 10% resistance mods would result in 20% increased resistance. Do it with cardio regulators instead. Less chance you'll mess it up. Also the UI isn't necessarily truthful, and the stacking mods aren't necessarily correctly applied (I'm looking at you, ferroscale/reactive plates). Well the only things to give you extra resistance is a skill in vehicles that gives you up to 10% base resistance, so if u have that buy an MLT vehicle that isnt the race uve specced into, to start at 0.00% resistance then do it. This is literally the easiest way to do it, no skills to add efficiency to the mods and no skills to add base resistance. |
Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
837
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 18:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
FATCannon - XOXO wrote:Ok thanks. Seems like the stacking penalties start after equipping the third module and it applies to the second module as well. Thanks again.
-XOXO
No, there is a stacking penalty on the second module as well, as you can see in the calculations. |
FATCannon - XOXO
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:FATCannon - XOXO wrote:Ok thanks. Seems like the stacking penalties start after equipping the third module and it applies to the second module as well. Thanks again.
-XOXO
No, there is a stacking penalty on the second module as well, as you can see in the calculations.
Yeah I noticed it when I calculated again for 2 stacked mods. Thank you.
-XOXO |
FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
379
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Posted - 2013.08.07 04:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
Ok I tried this with supplemental shield amplifiers (11% each). I have 6% damage resistance from the shields skill. When I equip the amplifier it gives 16.34 % shield resistance. When I equip another, it gives 24.something %
Following the formula our friend used earlier it should give me:
28.92% = 1.06 (initial resistance) * 1.11 (first mod) * 1.0957 (87% of 11%, second mod)
Is something wrong with the dropsuit stats list or am I doing the wrong calculation...
-XOXO
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1075
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Posted - 2013.08.07 04:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
don't do this^ resistance stack against itself as well as stacking penalties, while damage mods don't.
this is correct S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2] or use this |
FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
379
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Posted - 2013.08.07 04:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
ladwar wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
don't do this^ resistance stack against itself as well as stacking penalties, while damage mods don't. this is correct S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2] or use this
Hey you know about tanks what's happening with the damage resistance is it bugged or did I make a wrong calculation.
-XOXO
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1075
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Posted - 2013.08.07 05:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:ladwar wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
don't do this^ resistance stack against itself as well as stacking penalties, while damage mods don't. this is correct S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2] or use this Hey you know about tanks what's happening with the damage resistance is it bugged or did I make a wrong calculation. -XOXO look up harpyja post on it. basically they stack on w/e resistance is left. if only 50% is left the next module is 50% left effective after stacking penalties.
take 10% , 15% no stacking penalties 90% of 15% is 13.5% giving a totall of 23.5% |
plasma plasma plasme
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 06:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties
Just put in the values and it will give you the result. |
Altina McAlterson
Pure Innocence. EoN.
669
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Posted - 2013.08.07 06:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Everything confirms the penalties are the same as EVE. When it comes to resistance mods it's all the same too, only thing to remember with them is the penalty is applied in the opposite order when using modules of different values.
If you use a 10% damage mod and a 5% damage mod the penalty will be applied to the 5%. But with a 10% resistance mod and a 5% resistance mod the penalty will be applied to the 10% mod.
EDIT: I should also mention that's the way they work in EVE as well. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1076
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Posted - 2013.08.07 06:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Everything confirms the penalties are the same as EVE. When it comes to resistance mods it's all the same too, only thing to remember with them is the penalty is applied in the opposite order when using modules of different values.
If you use a 10% damage mod and a 5% damage mod the penalty will be applied to the 5%. But with a 10% resistance mod and a 5% resistance mod the penalty will be applied to the 10% mod.
EDIT: I should also mention that's the way they work in EVE as well. they is no penalty on the skills that give resistance btw it still the highest to lowest. LLAV have a base 30% and then if you add the type resistance skill max(10%) you get 37% base not 40%. think about that and the answer will show itself to you, maybe. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
883
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Posted - 2013.08.07 09:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Only think i know that stacking more than 2 is pointless in most cases, except for some exceptions, like Sniping with "weapon upgrades" for example, you don't really need shields for Sniping so you can stack 3 or 4 weapon upgrades and still benefit from it... but as an Assault stacking more than 2 weapon upgrades is useless, because you will benefit allot more from shields. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
204
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Posted - 2013.08.07 09:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Only think i know that stacking more than 2 is pointless in most cases, except for some exceptions, like Sniping with "weapon upgrades" for example, you don't really need shields for Sniping so you can stack 3 or 4 weapon upgrades and still benefit from it... but as an Assault stacking more than 2 weapon upgrades is useless, because you will benefit allot more from shields.
That's kind of the point isn't it? 57.1 % effectiveness (for the 3rd mod) isn't worthless but may not be as good as using 100% from a different mod or mods that have no penalty (opportunity cost). |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2013.08.07 10:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
do some testing in game its really the only way to tell, frankly CCP doesn't have a clue, there is so much in this game they are missing a lot that is not working as intended, the only way to be sure is to test it in a match and not rely on the fitting ui. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
294
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Posted - 2013.08.07 10:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:do some testing in game its really the only way to tell, frankly CCP doesn't have a clue, there is so much in this game they are missing a lot that is not working as intended, the only way to be sure is to test it in a match and not rely on the fitting ui. Thank you for educational post. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7032
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Posted - 2013.08.07 10:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP confirmed this a few months back they're the same stacking penalties. |
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
513
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Posted - 2013.08.07 11:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CCP confirmed this a few months back they're the same stacking penalties.
Neat. So instead of just typing out a number in the item description, we have to play an entirely different game to find the information to make our dropsuits? Or head online to find a wiki on it? Why can't the info just be in the UI somewhere? I purposely avoid stacking anything with penalties just because the info is so muddled.
Even in this thread, filled with math, and on the specific subject the best current answer is "that info exists somewhere else" |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
375
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Posted - 2013.08.07 12:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
These are the values of the stacking penalties: http://i.imgur.com/eB44xRO.png?1
In other words you get 100% benefit of the 1st module, ~86% of the 2nd, etc. |
CoD isAIDS
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
137
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Posted - 2013.08.07 13:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
Not all of us were good at math. |
FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
379
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Posted - 2013.08.07 13:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
ladwar wrote:FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:ladwar wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Grab a calculator. Buy a shield or armor militia vehicle. Buy some militia damage resistance modules for 10% each. It will tell u total damage resistance for armor & shield so just do the math yourself after each module you put on.
don't do this^ resistance stack against itself as well as stacking penalties, while damage mods don't. this is correct S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2] or use this Hey you know about tanks what's happening with the damage resistance is it bugged or did I make a wrong calculation. -XOXO look up harpyja post on it. basically they stack on w/e resistance is left. if only 50% is left the next module is 50% effective after stacking penalties. take 10% , 15% no stacking penalties 90% of 15% is 13.5% giving a totall of 23.5% or 50%, 50%,50% no stacking penalties applied 50% of 50% is 25% giving 75% and 50% of 25% is 12.5% for a grand total of 87.5% rather than the 150% you would think. (50+25+12.5)
Excellent, now I get it.
0.94 * 0.89 = 0.8366
100 - 83.66 = 16.34 %
Which is exactly what appears in the stats page. You sir are a genius and a gentleman <3
-XOXO
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