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semperfi1999
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Posted - 2013.08.06 14:21:00 -
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Hey Aeon did you also know that for a direct hit in dust they add the direct dmg together with the splash dmg? So the proto flaylock for a direct hit did 480 dmg (not including any bonus or negative dmg). |
semperfi1999
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:55:00 -
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Aeon Amadi wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Hey Aeon did you also know that for a direct hit in dust they add the direct dmg together with the splash dmg? So the proto flaylock for a direct hit did 480 dmg (not including any bonus or negative dmg). Do you have evidence to back this claim up? I have no reason to believe it being as I have heard of it maybe once before and there was no evidence behind it either.
Well the only evidence you can present is the dmg is does to enemies. A single direct hit from the flaylock will insta kill almost every armored heavy (assuming they have no shields). The direct dmg before the latest patch only did enough dmg to maybe do 300 dmg. But heavies start with more armor than 300......a direct hit from the flaylock actually did 600 dmg against armor before the nerf and the only way to get that much dmg in one shot is to add the direct dmg and the splash dmg together.
Plus this is how the MD works.......in testing out the MD myself a direct hit will insta kill most of the enemies you face. The only way for that to be true (especially at standard lvl) is to add the direct dmg and splash dmg together. |
semperfi1999
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:38:00 -
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FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:The Flaylock nerf doesn't really seem that bad. I still see players use effectively. Did agree after I talked to some people that it was OP. But damage wise. They nerfed the radius now aything below the core sucks. It's pretty hard to get a direct hit and. Most if the. Time I've noticed it doesn't registere a lot. Probably due to the hit detection. I think they shouldn't had touched the ammo and radius. before i was nerfed I used to aim it at people, now that doesn't seem to work. Most of the time it flies right passed them or doesn't even do damage so I've been using smg lately and I've gotten very good with it that I use it as my main lol. Maybe that'll get nerfed also I believe ALL explosive guns should make the user focus on the direct hit. Making a gun do massive damage on splash is IMO foolish. You should not want the user to focus on splash damage. The splash damage should be there as a small bonus for missing the direct shot and still doing damage. I don't agree with most of these explosive weapons having so much splash damage that awards the user for concentrating mostly on splash damage. Other wise why have direct damage at all. It's a grenade launcher. Grenades mostly kill due to splash damage. Well let's take it real world. Grenades mostly kill due to the shock waves it creates. Not because a direct hit. And still direct hits with a mass driver is very hard, especially since hit detectionis soooo bad. Like how the shot gun doesn't register at times. Because now the flaylock even the direct damage got nerfed. When already getting a direct hit is pretty much hard. Tbh its not hsrd to counter explosives, I've done it many times against proto mass driver's while I only own a level 3 mass driver. I tend to switch to assault rifle and pick him off at a distance.
LOL are you serious?? You really dont know anything about explosives do you? The majority of anti personel explosives are deadly due to the concussive force???? LOLOLOLOLOL..... let me break it to you...... No that is not true. The majority of anti personel explosives are effective due to fragmentation!! IE the explosive force destroys the casing making small pieces (fragments if you will) and propels them an unbelievable speeds into all objects in the area. A frag nade generally has a potential kill/wounding radius of 15 meters. A concussion nade (nade that uses only the forces you have mentioned how all nades work) has an effective radius of 2 meters. Concussion nades are generally used for enclose spaces since it is not that effective outside as there is nothing to contain/magnify the blasts concussive force. But throw it in a room and it can easily clear out a room or severally injure everyone in a room due to the concussive force being kept in the enclosed area.
Also any RPGs that are designed for anti personal are of the fragmentation variety.....so no the majority of grenades tend to be frag nades....although concussion nades are used as well they have a much more limites usage.
I am fine with the MD having an AOE...the issue is that its AOE is too large for the number of rounds/dmg it does. So something needs to change. I think changing the dmg would not be the correct way to go. I am good with decreasing the rounds to 4 for the standard and 6 for the assault. If you dont want to change the number of rounds then the only other option is to lower the AOE of 6 meters (standard) and 9 meters (assault) down to more reasonable levels. ~ 4 meter radius for a fully upgraded standard would be about right and ~6 meter radius for assault would be about right. That or CCP needs to completely rework their splash dmg such that you take significantly less dmg as you move away from the blast (currently this is not the case). |
semperfi1999
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Posted - 2013.08.06 17:55:00 -
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Aeon Amadi wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Hey Aeon did you also know that for a direct hit in dust they add the direct dmg together with the splash dmg? So the proto flaylock for a direct hit did 480 dmg (not including any bonus or negative dmg). Do you have evidence to back this claim up? I have no reason to believe it being as I have heard of it maybe once before and there was no evidence behind it either. Well the only evidence you can present is the dmg is does to enemies. A single direct hit from the flaylock will insta kill almost every armored heavy (assuming they have no shields). The direct dmg before the latest patch only did enough dmg to maybe do 300 dmg. But heavies start with more armor than 300......a direct hit from the flaylock actually did 600 dmg against armor before the nerf and the only way to get that much dmg in one shot is to add the direct dmg and the splash dmg together. Plus this is how the MD works.......in testing out the MD myself a direct hit will insta kill most of the enemies you face. The only way for that to be true (especially at standard lvl) is to add the direct dmg and splash dmg together. I've actually answered this question before and I still have the paper that I wrote all the math on when I answered it. A Core Flaylock (at the time) with 3 Complex Damage Modifiers and Proficiency 5 will dish out 597 direct damage to Armor. Whereas, adding Direct and Splash damage together = 590 Being as there is no in-game mechanic that could allow the combination of both direct and splash damage (both having different efficiency ratings, for one example) it might appear this way but there's nothing out of the realm of believable that this fit was potentially used.
One of the guys I play with frequently did not use a set up like you mentioned....not at all....and he noted (back before the flaylock had become the FOTM) that the flaylock was doing WWWAAAYYYY more dmg than it should based on the numbers involved. We did testing and he was pretty much removing all shields from shield heavy suits with a single shot when it was a direct hit. Testing could be done more extensively if the corp battle option was still available.....but its not..... so its very difficult to actually sit down and truly test weapons out and obtain numbers. However I dont really understand how people can question this.......How does my standard MD that does 225 direct dmg (I use no dmg mods on it and have only lvl 1 so no proficiency) OHK standard suits with a direct hit when they have full HP? Even assuming that they have absolutely no HP mods on them (which is a rediculous assumption) these suits have standard more HP than the direct dmg gives out. Even the lowest HP suit (minmatar) has plenty of HP to absorb a single direct hit....but it doesnt. Instead it gets OHKed (and I am sure that they are using some sort of HP mod too surely every single person i OHKed did not use only dmg mods that thought is just rediculous). |
semperfi1999
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:00:00 -
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Daxxis KANNAH wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Hey Aeon did you also know that for a direct hit in dust they add the direct dmg together with the splash dmg? So the proto flaylock for a direct hit did 480 dmg (not including any bonus or negative dmg). Do you have evidence to back this claim up? I have no reason to believe it being as I have heard of it maybe once before and there was no evidence behind it either. Well the only evidence you can present is the dmg is does to enemies. A single direct hit from the flaylock will insta kill almost every armored heavy (assuming they have no shields). The direct dmg before the latest patch only did enough dmg to maybe do 300 dmg. But heavies start with more armor than 300......a direct hit from the flaylock actually did 600 dmg against armor before the nerf and the only way to get that much dmg in one shot is to add the direct dmg and the splash dmg together. Plus this is how the MD works.......in testing out the MD myself a direct hit will insta kill most of the enemies you face. The only way for that to be true (especially at standard lvl) is to add the direct dmg and splash dmg together. A source other than anecdotal evidence would be the best thing. You have also couched your argument with "has no shields" when all foes have some level of them and explosive weapons only do 70% to shields. If what you said was true then a direct hit would wipe out most (if not all) of the lower shielded foes and it doesnt. We need clarification from CCP or at least from people who have extensively tested the scenario.
The problem with this is that CCP has "clarified" many things before...just for testing to prove them incorrect...then CCP does more testing on their end...and the next thing we know CCP comes back and mentions that things are not working properly. So yea CCP "clarification" means about as much as cow poop. They can tell us how they are wanting it to work...but how they are wanting it to work and how it actually works can and many times is two extremely different things. |
semperfi1999
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:45:00 -
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Aeon Amadi wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:
The problem with this is that CCP has "clarified" many things before...just for testing to prove them incorrect...then CCP does more testing on their end...and the next thing we know CCP comes back and mentions that things are not working properly. So yea CCP "clarification" means about as much as cow poop. They can tell us how they are wanting it to work...but how they are wanting it to work and how it actually works can and many times is two extremely different things.
Well you still havent given me any proof  but this post I do agree with. Though I rather them have to go on record and then have to clarify if proven wrong - much better than tin-foiling it I do hope Aeon does some testing as he has done some with the MD re splash. Testing what, exactly?
He is asking you to test if direct dmg and splash dmg are added together. |
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