I dunno, truth be told we haven't seen any major nerf-ing lately. The gaylock was made into a more direct fire weapon and the TARs were changed just enough that they don't outperform regular ARs while hip-firing.

If you have a Dev post about some kind of branching grenade skill tree please share.

Anyone who is seriously concerned about having their weapon nerfed should just train ARs.

How about no?

Vehicle nerfed 5 builds in a row, even after release, the skills the mods the turrets the hulls everything has taken a nerf

But because your crutch gets a nerf you want your SP back?

Lowratehitman crying?

Oh this is rich.

Please continue.

No crying.... just a RETORT to all the QQ ing I see everyday on this fourm over AV nades.

Im not dying by AV nades..and I understand that only things that KILLs players is the things they complain to be op

I just think it should be broke down into 3 skill trees and that would lower the av nade problem for a minute

Up the dmg on prox mines and fix the contact so that they are useable tools..i would use them.

There are certain vehicle users who do indeed cry quite a lot. That is because, I assume, they are juvenile persons who struggle with some of the realities of vehicle vs AV balance, and also how to balance expectations with reality.

There are also those who have tried to have rational discussions with the AV users, to little or no avail, because of the same mentality affecting certain AV users.

Lets try and step above that type of behaviour, because quite frankly, the Devs need all the help they can get on producing an actually balanced vehicle vs AV dynamic.

We could try and have a real discussion on AV nades, but just like the other thread currently going on it, it eventually just turns into people pointing fingers and whining. I am really getting tired of even trying to get involved in those discussions.

I am requesting the SP that I have invested in grenades back ahead of time. If you would like to break the grenades into 3 skill trees, one for each type of grenade, that would be more acceptable than a nerf.


I want an official list of items that are NOT "OP" and that will not be "NERFED" so that I can skill into those items, and not lose my investment 3 months down the road.....unless CCP is willing to give SP back to the players on items they Balance. I myself grow tired of seeing the same threads everyday......


How about creating a bank in where I invest my SP into that until all the items are right and I will not fear investing into a skill or item that is advertised, only for that item to be changed "balanced" a month later? A bank where 1.5% interest is made on stored sp......

I am going to go have my crumpets and tea now while I QQ.... :)

Your vehicles got an across the board BUFF that it did not deserve. We put up with indestrutable free and logi lav's for too long.

Because your crutch DID get nerfed and could actually be destroyed... why you mad now?

I have MANY ways to destroy your clone..you use the word "crutch" too loose friend.

What buff was that?

Crutch a HAV lolno, basic vs proto AV completely different story

Many ways, top AV weapons are lolprotonoskillswarms with lolnoskillAVnades, FG are next best but not used by many because need a heavy suit, cant whack on 5damage mods and also requires aim

lolAVnades are a crutch - never miss, always hit, **** armor stupidly fast, can be launched from decent distances and also are stronger than AV mines lol, are used by some as a primary AV weapon

I agree with you, and I am sure you agree with me that this is a "squad" based game. How many "squad" based vehicle users do I see on the field, I know many tank driver that rambo the field, and the are my friends, and I tell them the same thing....

If I rambo into a squad of players I have a low chance of survivability, and that is the same for vehicles. Half the time my av nades dont even "hone" on its target or detonate on contact.... but I dont cry about that all day.

There are very few tankers who roll solo. Even fewer of the really good tankers roll solo consistently. I do it when I have time in the morning and my corp channel is pretty much vacant, but generally that means I play in an entirely defensive mindset, where I retreat at the first sign of AV. There are many games where the only method I have of self preservation is a wholesale retreat to the redline every time the enemy decides to focus any sort of interest on me. I don't have a problem with this.

The tankers you know who claim to rambo a whole team are either lying, or only tanking when they see an enemy team with no 6 man squads on it.

When a tank rambos a whole team and lasts through a match of PC, then we can talk about tanks being too strong, but right now, in a PC match, a tank that gets within throwing distance of a couple of infantry goes pop, even without them running dedicated AV, which is kind of garbage.

Last pc battle i fought aginst MAPLE...he had no threat from my av..nor did the other 3 tanks...

So if there is no problem with av nades in a PC battle...why such a problem in pub matches?

Its all about being 100% honest..... You do understand that I have rode and recoreded video with some of the best tank drivers that indeed do run rambo in pub matches.

Really...you have alot of forum time in that is easy to see, but you cant remember 2 months ago when all the "free" murder taxis running rampant due to being near invencible? As I stated before, I have av nades that do not hone and do not explode on contact. And for you to say av is a crutch is laughable when all you have is crutch lav users. While I am hacking objectives in the trenches putting work in vs people that never leave the seat of a lav due to running ppl over worrying about their kd...you say av nades are my crutch...that is truly laughable

So no one brought flux grenades? No disrespect to maple, but any of the upper tier armor tankers would have ripped him apart in short order, because of the imbalance of shields v armor. Just because you brought anti armor weapons to use against a shield tanker does not make them balanced, it just means you broke out the wrong tools for the job.

Also, using AV nades versus a shield tank is not the issue, it is mostly AV nades versus armor tanks, because of the bonuses versus armor that explosives get.

If you are riding and recording with a tanker, are you firing the turret? Are you hopping out to kill or hack something? If so they are not really riding solo are they?

But please, post a whole match video where you ride in a turret, don't get out, don't fire the gun, and are the only two guys in a squad versus some real opposition where the tanker runs rambo over the enemy. No LOL ambush though, that is scrub tanking.

Oh you mean when they took away 2 skiils away from the vehicle tree and added that missing hp to all vehicles so infantry scrubs got the buff while vehicle specalists lose 2 skills, really they should take them 2 skills away from infantry also and just add the missing hp to all dropsuits anyways so we can use them also - That is such a buff its a nerf you tit

Sure they replaced the skills with new ones but they took skills away from the vehicle tree instead of just adding the new skills into the tree so its more to skill into, it wasnt needed and no one asked for it

If that is a buff to you then the PG nerf outweights the buff anyways because it screwed up every fit anyone had, not too mention the removal of the sagris/surya to be replaced with the enforcers aka milita stat tanks with more slots which was a nerf also

AV nades home in on target, i have seen it, i have done it, lolnevermiss, explode on contact

Crutch LAV lolno, putting in work holding O button lolno

And it may sound that im doubting your word, which I promise im not. But You said 2 infantry throwing av nades. In your opinion, how many infantry should it take throwin nades when the "hardeners" have expired to "pop" a tank?

I can do that, and I will...do you run a tank? I can ride with you! And I will not help fight av. But I will say that when you say "real" opposition, im not clearly understandin, cause all im hearing is that us "av" users have a "no" skill crutch.

Without hardeners or reps, 4 AV grenades will pop any Madrugar that isn't built for hiding in the redline, but those wouldn't be out in the field anyway.

I think a better number would be six, but even five would be better, if only to prevent the whole bumrush with AV grenades thing that happens quite often. Where this breaks down though is that if you nerf AV grenade damage then you make them less effective against Logi LAV's which are already insanely durable, which would be counter productive.

This is why there needs to be that total rework of vehicles and AV that is currently in progress, there is too much disparity between the power needed to pop a Logi Lav and a well fit tank. If you turn down AV to make tanks more survivable, then LLAV's run amok, and if you bump tank HP to be more resilient, then they could pubstomp like you describe.

Overall, I think AV nade damage at proto could remain at its current level if there were a longer delay for restocking and a higher set of fitting requirements to use them. This would enforce the compromise that players should take for running an AV option on an anti-infantry suit.

There should be a push from CCP to make AV a role where it requires a complete spawn to be effective. You dedicate that clone to tank popping, instead of AR, Sidearm, and oh yeah, I also have these tank poppers in my back pocket.