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Putting Together a AV vs HAV 'Think Tank'

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daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.08.05 15:56:00 - [1] - Quote This is a great idea and might lead to a fruitful discussion. It would be important to make a list / script during the conference and upload it later for public. However, many questions in tank vs AV discussions are heavily influenced by personal opinions. For example, one of the big questions: Considering equal skill and equipment meta level, standard Dust 514 territory, how many AV players should it take to kill a tank? When I asked my tanker colleagues I heard numbers from 1 to 6. Yet, this is a really fundamental question. Another point are bugs in the game and problems of the game engine, which have big influence on tank vs AV battles. To name a few, invisible forgegun shots, invisible swarm rockets, missing rendering for railgun turrets ... But yeah, give it a try.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:28:00 - [2] - Quote Another small thing, you shouldn't talk so much about special, gamebreaking situation. For example, on some open maps a single guy with a proto swarm launcher, standing on top of the mcc will suppress every tank play. Those swarms, most of the time invisible (if the merc isn't drawn, the rockets are also not drawn) will hit perpendicular to the surface. There is practically no cover. Also, snipers won't reach him due to the strange mcc hitbox. If you avoid stuff / situations like this (which are clearly no topic for balance but for technical fixing) in your discussion, you'll find that the tank vs. AV stuff isn't so far off balance. Actually, I personally enjoy it the way it is right now. I like to be driven back by clever AV player some games, heavily limiting my radius of action 50% of the battle time. This is fair. Overextending kills you, that's fair too. Tanks should never be able to roll over 16 people.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:41:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I slightly disagree with this because HAVs are actually not that expensive when put up against someone in a Prototype suit with all complex mods, which can run in the 100,000 - 200,000 ISK range. Regardless, it's something that will be brought up in the Think Tank and I'm honestly looking forward to seeing what everyone else has to say because, as I've previously stated, my opinion is -my- opinion and even if the numbers look awry it could work out in actual execution - thereby, I need more people to tackle this one. I fully agree on this point. A good tank costs 800k ISK, with best mods and Adv. Turret. (Don't take proto, isn't worth it for regular public use w/o squad). A proto AV fit costs also up to 100k ISK. I have to fear only the AV guy. He has to fear me and the other 10+ infantry guys in my team. I think it is fair this way. As I said, the whole tank vs. AV thing isn't that off balance. People here tend to cry really often and long. Most annoying thing are the bugs / graphic engine problems.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:58:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the main issues that I'm going to be bringing up in the think tank (provided I ever actually get volunteers - hint hint) is the disparity in skill point dispersal between the two playstyles. Put it to you this way, it's 1,500,000 SP cheaper getting Vehicle Core Upgrades/Electronics/Engineering to 5 than it is to get the Infantry Core Upgrades/Electronics/Engineering. Granted, Engineering for Vehicles is about useless - but I digress. I don't know about the infantry core skills shame, I put all my SP into tanks. Yet, I think there is a fundamental difference in those Core Skills between tanks and infantry. For example, Vehicle Engineering (2x) is important for PG modules and that's all, the bonus is good, but can be neglected at first (for madrugars). Vehicle Armor Plating (5x) however is way more important, since you won't be able to fit a good tank without the -5% for Armor Plates it gives each level. I can only speak for armor tanks, but w/o 3m SP you won't fit a proper Madrugar. After those 3m invested, all you have is a basic Madrugar (with much space to improve) and that's it. No versatility. Edit: Basic Madrugar: Active Heat Sink, best armor plate, best repper, 2 resistance
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2013.08.05 20:31:00 - [5] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: AV here. Pretty much all I do nowadays. 14 Mil SP Heavy w/ Proto Forge (L4 Prof) ADV Amarr w/ Proto Swarm Launchers (L4 Prof) Proto Grenades Complex damage mods across the board And way too many confirmed tank kills to count. I hate you.

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