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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1112
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Posted - 2013.07.27 20:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make the skill cap the value of the total of all the weekly caps since the last SP reset. Increase this global skill cap on a daily/weekly basis based on the current SP of the current cap system.
This is the simplest possible solution to all SP dissatisfaction - it allows players to catch up to the maxed out players if they play an absolute fack-load but gives them no advantage if they only play casually. The intended speed of progression is still limited and prevents the maxed out people from streaking ahead, which would happen if the skill cap was removed entirely. |
richiesutie 2
Seraphim Auxiliaries
197
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Posted - 2013.07.27 20:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
But that would make this game more balanced. So No. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1119
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Posted - 2013.07.28 08:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
richiesutie 2 wrote:But that would make this game more balanced. Meh, not really. It would still take months of extra playing to stand a chance of catching up a few million SP.
The benefit of this system is that as long as you haven't hit the global cap, you can play as much as you want whenever you want without feeling like you're not making any progress. I could only envisage a small hardcore minority actually hitting the global cap.
One issue I'm seeing though is what effect boosters would have once you hit the global cap - would the cap be set at the amount that could be gotten through using boosters, even if you're not using booster? Or would it be set at the amount that could be gotten without boosters and using boosters raises that cap by another 50%? I think I'm leaning towards the former option but boosters do somewhat complicate the situation.
Using boosters before hitting the cap would still be useful in either case because they'd allow you to catch up faster. Also, with my prefered option once you do hit that cap, using boosters would allow you to hit the cap the next day/week much faster, so they'd still be a little useful, just not as much as they are currently and more for the lazy gamer. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
the rolling SP count has been suggested I don't think CCP would like it since it makes the boosters "better" and ud get a lot of SP from just one but they should have the rolling SP or no cap imo |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1120
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:the rolling SP count has been suggested I don't think CCP would like it since it makes the boosters "better" and ud get a lot of SP from just one but they should have the rolling SP or no cap imo The rolling SP count idea doesn't seem to take into account SP caps from the last SP reset - all that is currently talked about is rolling over the weekly skill cap each week, which is more complicated and individually based for each merc. Making it a global cap is a lot more simple and removes the individual element that adds the need for much more coding.
I also don't see how this system makes boosters 'better' - currently boosters add 50% which can not be gotten any other way than using boosters; so if anything, boosters would be less valuable in the global cap system. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:the rolling SP count has been suggested I don't think CCP would like it since it makes the boosters "better" and ud get a lot of SP from just one but they should have the rolling SP or no cap imo The rolling SP count idea doesn't seem to take into account SP caps from the last SP reset - all that is currently talked about is rolling over the weekly skill cap each week, which is more complicated and individually based for each merc. Making it a global cap is a lot more simple and removes the individual element that adds the need for much more coding. I also don't see how this system makes boosters 'better' - currently boosters add 50% which can not be gotten any other way than using boosters; so if anything, boosters would be less valuable in the global cap system.
whats global count mean? im kinda confused? is it the same as a rolling like since the beginning weve had a set number SP each week add it all up and it makes it rolling? but the boosters would need to be bought less if u take breaks and that makes me think they will say no |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1120
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:Django Quik wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:the rolling SP count has been suggested I don't think CCP would like it since it makes the boosters "better" and ud get a lot of SP from just one but they should have the rolling SP or no cap imo The rolling SP count idea doesn't seem to take into account SP caps from the last SP reset - all that is currently talked about is rolling over the weekly skill cap each week, which is more complicated and individually based for each merc. Making it a global cap is a lot more simple and removes the individual element that adds the need for much more coding. I also don't see how this system makes boosters 'better' - currently boosters add 50% which can not be gotten any other way than using boosters; so if anything, boosters would be less valuable in the global cap system. whats global count mean? im kinda confused? is it the same as a rolling like since the beginning weve had a set number SP each week add it all up and it makes it rolling? but the boosters would need to be bought less if u take breaks and that makes me think they will say no Yes, it kinda is the same as rolling since the beginning but from what I've understood, people haven't been talking about rolling it from the beginning; they've been talking about having it rolling from the start of the character, so if you started a few months late, you'd never be able to make up those few months worth of SP.
You wouldn't need to buy boosters to catch up but you'd have to have the time to play 50% more than people who do use boosters to keep up, so they'd still be valuable - just not offer the SP that can't otherwise be gotten in the current system. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Django Quik wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:the rolling SP count has been suggested I don't think CCP would like it since it makes the boosters "better" and ud get a lot of SP from just one but they should have the rolling SP or no cap imo The rolling SP count idea doesn't seem to take into account SP caps from the last SP reset - all that is currently talked about is rolling over the weekly skill cap each week, which is more complicated and individually based for each merc. Making it a global cap is a lot more simple and removes the individual element that adds the need for much more coding. I also don't see how this system makes boosters 'better' - currently boosters add 50% which can not be gotten any other way than using boosters; so if anything, boosters would be less valuable in the global cap system. whats global count mean? im kinda confused? is it the same as a rolling like since the beginning weve had a set number SP each week add it all up and it makes it rolling? but the boosters would need to be bought less if u take breaks and that makes me think they will say no Yes, it kinda is the same as rolling since the beginning but from what I've understood, people haven't been talking about rolling it from the beginning; they've been talking about having it rolling from the start of the character, so if you started a few months late, you'd never be able to make up those few months worth of SP. You wouldn't need to buy boosters to catch up but you'd have to have the time to play 50% more than people who do use boosters to keep up, so they'd still be valuable - just not offer the SP that can't otherwise be gotten in the current system.
but on peoples alts if we had a since the beginning SP it might sell more boosters I can see a lot of people jumping on that to make a second, third, another account characters and it might not remove the sale of current boosters since people want to stay ahead of the pack |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1120
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:Django Quik wrote: Yes, it kinda is the same as rolling since the beginning but from what I've understood, people haven't been talking about rolling it from the beginning; they've been talking about having it rolling from the start of the character, so if you started a few months late, you'd never be able to make up those few months worth of SP.
You wouldn't need to buy boosters to catch up but you'd have to have the time to play 50% more than people who do use boosters to keep up, so they'd still be valuable - just not offer the SP that can't otherwise be gotten in the current system.
but on peoples alts if we had a since the beginning SP it might sell more boosters I can see a lot of people jumping on that to make a second, third, another account characters and it might not remove the sale of current boosters since people want to stay ahead of the pack Not sure I get what you're getting at here - if you made an alt, you'd still have to play it a lot to catch up at all; just sticking some passive boosters on will do nothing to change the situation from what we have currently. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Django Quik wrote: Yes, it kinda is the same as rolling since the beginning but from what I've understood, people haven't been talking about rolling it from the beginning; they've been talking about having it rolling from the start of the character, so if you started a few months late, you'd never be able to make up those few months worth of SP.
You wouldn't need to buy boosters to catch up but you'd have to have the time to play 50% more than people who do use boosters to keep up, so they'd still be valuable - just not offer the SP that can't otherwise be gotten in the current system.
but on peoples alts if we had a since the beginning SP it might sell more boosters I can see a lot of people jumping on that to make a second, third, another account characters and it might not remove the sale of current boosters since people want to stay ahead of the pack Not sure I get what you're getting at here - if you made an alt, you'd still have to play it a lot to catch up at all; just sticking some passive boosters on will do nothing to change the situation from what we have currently.
but I think they would buy if we can convince CCP or CPM that it would still sell boosters we should be able to have it in game
people have to specialize and I have a AR assault, Heavy and Logi
my heavy and logi r really really hurting but if I could have a rolling cap and im sure others would buy the boosters so they can play as them a week and get a lot further (I cap out my main in 2.5 days) |
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1120
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:but I think they would buy if we can convince CCP or CPM that it would still sell boosters we should be able to have it in game
people have to specialize and I have a AR assault, Heavy and Logi
my heavy and logi r really really hurting but if I could have a rolling cap and im sure others would buy the boosters so they can play as them a week and get a lot further (I cap out my main in 2.5 days) Okay, I think I get what you're saying now - basically, you agree with the global cap idea and think that boosters would still be bought to increase your rate of progression? |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
136
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:but I think they would buy if we can convince CCP or CPM that it would still sell boosters we should be able to have it in game
people have to specialize and I have a AR assault, Heavy and Logi
my heavy and logi r really really hurting but if I could have a rolling cap and im sure others would buy the boosters so they can play as them a week and get a lot further (I cap out my main in 2.5 days) Okay, I think I get what you're saying now - basically, you agree with the global cap idea and think that boosters would still be bought to increase your rate of progression?
yeah but CCP or CPM members need to agree or it wont happen |
lithkul devant
Cerberus Network. The Superpowers
9
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Posted - 2013.07.28 14:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Boosters aren't going away, that I know they make plenty of money off the passive boosters, however, the active ones I am sure they are looking to make better and put some changes onto it. The idea of rolling over on the SP from week to week is really needed, since I can get rather burned out playing a game each week and sometimes I just want to sit down play with a couple friends about and spend out that SP. It really is something I would spend 10,000 AUR to have activated on my account, not a fantastic amount of real life money, but enough to give them incentive to actually do it. I'm still unsure about the global sp count, vetern players might get rather pissed off and claim that they have priority on the characters they have created since beta, so a global could be implimented as if it started a few weeks after beta I guess? I'm not a beta player by any means I am just about to hit 5 mil in my sp, so I want lots more SP to burn through when I can have it, just don't want to annoy everyone doing it. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1130
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Posted - 2013.07.28 14:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:Boosters aren't going away, that I know they make plenty of money off the passive boosters, however, the active ones I am sure they are looking to make better and put some changes onto it. The idea of rolling over on the SP from week to week is really needed, since I can get rather burned out playing a game each week and sometimes I just want to sit down play with a couple friends about and spend out that SP. It really is something I would spend 10,000 AUR to have activated on my account, not a fantastic amount of real life money, but enough to give them incentive to actually do it. I'm still unsure about the global sp count, vetern players might get rather pissed off and claim that they have priority on the characters they have created since beta, so a global could be implimented as if it started a few weeks after beta I guess? I'm not a beta player by any means I am just about to hit 5 mil in my sp, so I want lots more SP to burn through when I can have it, just don't want to annoy everyone doing it. I don't think vets would be that upset by this system because it would be pretty difficult for anyone to catch up to them unless they started pretty close to launch date. Making up a gap of a million SP might be possible within a few weeks or a month but anything greater would take a long time to make up. I don't think people should have an innate and insurmountable advantage over others just because they started playing the game from day 1 and others joined a month or so down the line. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
216
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 17:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Make the skill cap the value of the total of all the weekly caps since the last SP reset. Increase this global skill cap on a daily/weekly basis based on the current SP of the current cap system.
This is the simplest possible solution to all SP dissatisfaction - it allows players to catch up to the maxed out players if they play an absolute fack-load but gives them no advantage if they only play casually. The intended speed of progression is still limited and prevents the maxed out people from streaking ahead, which would happen if the skill cap was removed entirely.
I applaud the idea, and agree that this would make it more fun to grind all week long. Some weeks I have more time or energy to grind my SP up and others I don't, this is a great idea. Don't forget to add the 3x SP periods to the total rather than the normal total for that time as it is SP that could have been earned. |
Delta90212
Dust2Dust.
15
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Posted - 2013.07.28 18:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 Nice idea. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
39
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Posted - 2013.07.28 18:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
yes, more SP for everyone!! noobs need to catch up to vets. (I am a noob) |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
506
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Posted - 2013.07.28 19:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
My problem with this is that it screws everybody who's put in solid time after the cap (~1K WP/match). So, more realistically, the cap would be every week's SP cap plus all the excess WP you've gained in the past |
Mintqueer
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2013.07.28 21:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
NeverTM
CCP does not likes when the boosters can be used at their full potential, normally It takes me 1 day to fully cap. They love people buying boosters and capping earlier. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1147
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Posted - 2013.07.28 22:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:My problem with this is that it screws everybody who's put in solid time after the cap (~1K WP/match). So, more realistically, the cap would be every week's SP cap plus all the excess WP you've gained in the past It would only screw people over in that way if they reached the global cap but then this system would mean that they're ahead of the cap and wouldn't have to spend as long to reach it everytime it's extended, whether that happens daily or weekly. |
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1148
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Posted - 2013.07.28 22:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mintqueer wrote:NeverTM
CCP does not likes when the boosters can be used at their full potential, normally It takes me 1 day to fully cap. They love people buying boosters and capping earlier. I like how many people think they know what CCP thinks or likes. How about we just talk about what we think or like and they can see our opinions and hopefully see the benefit of what we say? |
Pseudogenesis
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
66
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Posted - 2013.07.29 00:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
This would entirely ******* defeat the purpose of the skill cap. Now the effective cap is literally the maximum possible amount of skill points you could have up to this point. It'd remove any semblance of skill balancing and allow protobears to destroy newbies even more than they do now. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
39
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Posted - 2013.07.29 01:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pseudogenesis wrote:This would entirely ******* defeat the purpose of the skill cap. Now the effective cap is literally the maximum possible amount of skill points you could have up to this point. It'd remove any semblance of skill balancing and allow protobears to destroy newbies even more than they do now.
not really. If there is a set SP cap that is relative to how long this game has been active, then everyone has the potential of reaching that cap, and not the select few that have been playing since the start. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1151
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Posted - 2013.07.29 07:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:Pseudogenesis wrote:This would entirely ******* defeat the purpose of the skill cap. Now the effective cap is literally the maximum possible amount of skill points you could have up to this point. It'd remove any semblance of skill balancing and allow protobears to destroy newbies even more than they do now. not really. If there is a set SP cap that is relative to how long this game has been active, then everyone has the potential of reaching that cap, and not the select few that have been playing since the start. What this guy said.
This would give people who didn't start on day 1 a chance, if they play extra, to catch up but stop those that are already at the max from increasing their lead even further, which would happen if the cap were removed entirely like many people seem to want. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
42
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Posted - 2013.07.31 01:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have seen posts about an idea for a rollover system for weekly caps; I hope that a universal cap is implemented. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
293
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Posted - 2013.07.31 04:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
OMG! Someone stop that man from walking across that line ahead of me or I will never be able to cross that line myself like he did!
This is what your "catch up" arguments sound like.
Another example...
Holy crap! That F1 Racer is ahead. Limit him to third gear and give me an overdrive boost or I'll never cross the finish line!
Just because you started later, or don't play as much doesn't mean you should get special treatment to artificially "catch up" to the players who do invest a lot of time.
Before you call me a no-lifer, I'm lucky if I get to play 10 hours a week and I have only ever hit the weekly cap once. I understand that because I don't have the time to play every waking moment, it'll take me longer to get to where someone else is already. But when I do get there, my SP will be the same as that other player's SP and I will have "caught up" in that particular skill. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1256
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Posted - 2013.07.31 04:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eh, 'catching up' isn't that important. you tend to bottom out most specialties at a few million. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
223
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Posted - 2013.08.01 06:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:OMG! Someone stop that man from walking across that line ahead of me or I will never be able to cross that line myself like he did!
This is what your "catch up" arguments sound like.
Another example...
Holy crap! That F1 Racer is ahead. Limit him to third gear and give me an overdrive boost or I'll never cross the finish line!
Just because you started later, or don't play as much doesn't mean you should get special treatment to artificially "catch up" to the players who do invest a lot of time.
Before you call me a no-lifer, I'm lucky if I get to play 10 hours a week and I have only ever hit the weekly cap once. I understand that because I don't have the time to play every waking moment, it'll take me longer to get to where someone else is already. But when I do get there, my SP will be the same as that other player's SP and I will have "caught up" in that particular skill. Hey bro, I still think the global cap would be better than the weekly one which gets surpassed by most everyone every week. This is so that when you can play for 4-7 days in a row non-stop morning to server downtime that you can actually make some SP (more than 1000 per match) if you haven't capped every week. This is much less of an overdrive than what you would think because it limits you to what the max amount of SP that would have been available from the start of the launch. This hurts no one and would allow players who (although they took a break for whatever reason) want to put in the hours to get their skills to a better level. This would not hurt anyone and only would benefit this game as people take breaks to deal with RL stuff and to get their heads out of the game for a few days of the week. Taking a break from a game isn't a bad thing and I don't believe that it is entirely fair to anyone to be missing out on the benefit of capping out every week if they want to sit down and play until they can't keep their eyes open for a few days in a month to keep their skills up. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1177
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Posted - 2013.08.01 07:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:OMG! Someone stop that man from walking across that line ahead of me or I will never be able to cross that line myself like he did!
This is what your "catch up" arguments sound like.
Another example...
Holy crap! That F1 Racer is ahead. Limit him to third gear and give me an overdrive boost or I'll never cross the finish line!
Just because you started later, or don't play as much doesn't mean you should get special treatment to artificially "catch up" to the players who do invest a lot of time.
Before you call me a no-lifer, I'm lucky if I get to play 10 hours a week and I have only ever hit the weekly cap once. I understand that because I don't have the time to play every waking moment, it'll take me longer to get to where someone else is already. But when I do get there, my SP will be the same as that other player's SP and I will have "caught up" in that particular skill. Take your F1 example but make all the drivers start at different times. Then limit them all to the same top speed no matter how well they drive. That's the current system. No one will ever close in on anyone who started before them unless the front runners decide not to race anymore. Removing the car entirely would be like a race where physics no longer apply and everyone can go at infinity mph.you think the grind is bad now? Imagine if you had to play every spare moment just to stay competitive, let alone catch up to guy who started a week before you. My system gives everyone a chance, no matter how small. It's like a real f1 race. If the leader drives really well for the whole race, he can stay ahead the entire time but if the other drivers drive really well too and try hard for a really long time, they can close the gap on that guy and as soon as if slips up, boom, first place baby! |
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