|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
211
   |
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do they insist upon giving armor tanking a negative movement speed when it is the least useful tank in the game? Why make it even less useful?
Incomprehensible... |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
217
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Wait, what? What did you expect from these two new armors? 60 for complex is almost as much as a complex shield extender, did you honestly expect it to eb MORE than a shield extender? 45 + 2 regen is in between enhanced and complex shield regen AND gives you a small armor regen. Keep in mind, the difference between a small armor regen that can top you off after fights and no armor regen is huge.
These things seem INCREDIBLY balanced. What were you expecting? More health than shield but no penalties too? Maybe, just to placate some weird feelings, they shouldve made then equal to the shield extenders but meh, they are pretty damned close. There is very little chance another 6 health from a module will be the difference between a shot killing you or not.
There is no downside to running shield extenders, recharger, or regulators - zero downside.
None.
Zip.
Zilch.
Nada.
SUCH INCREDIBLE BALANCE! |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
217
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Kitten, pointing to a massive thread that nobody is going to read and then claiming it invalidated everyones point is dumb. If you yourself have the brain power and reasoning to know why we are wrong, you have the ability to sum it up. But so far you keep focusing just on the weaknesses of armor and not its strengths.
Plus why do you care if shield versus armor tanking is better? Why cant one be better than the other? Every player has option to do either or both. They are in different slots so they arent "competiting" with eachother. It would be like arguing that damage mods are better than kin cat mods. Who cares? They dont compete. Because everytime I sum it up, people start saying wrong things. You just can't sum it all up, its too long. Every point has reasoning, because on the surface it might sound good, but when you actually crunch the numbers shield wins every time. If you don't feel like reading a good and long explanation that disproves any "advantage" armor has, then you have no say in balancing. Because you're gonig to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. "Plus why do you care if shield versus armor tanking is better? Why cant one be better than the other? Every player has option to do either or both. They are in different slots so they arent "competiting" with eachother. It would be like arguing that damage mods are better than kin cat mods. Who cares? They dont compete." There is a whole race called Gallente that relies on armor tanking. Its currently the most useless race. You know why?
I know why, because armor repairs at the speed of roadkill and the extenders for it make you move even slower. The speed debuff should either be racial or suit based - as in heavy's don't get a debuff or Gallente doesn't or something.
Also, if they ever get around to putting a downside on shield tanking, the scout should be the suit that has zero downside...
Like, you can make the modules work on every suit, but make them work more better-er on the suit they're intended for. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
217
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote:Kitten Empress wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Kitten, pointing to a massive thread that nobody is going to read and then claiming it invalidated everyones point is dumb. If you yourself have the brain power and reasoning to know why we are wrong, you have the ability to sum it up. But so far you keep focusing just on the weaknesses of armor and not its strengths.
Plus why do you care if shield versus armor tanking is better? Why cant one be better than the other? Every player has option to do either or both. They are in different slots so they arent "competiting" with eachother. It would be like arguing that damage mods are better than kin cat mods. Who cares? They dont compete. Because everytime I sum it up, people start saying wrong things. You just can't sum it all up, its too long. Every point has reasoning, because on the surface it might sound good, but when you actually crunch the numbers shield wins every time. If you don't feel like reading a good and long explanation that disproves any "advantage" armor has, then you have no say in balancing. Because you're gonig to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. "Plus why do you care if shield versus armor tanking is better? Why cant one be better than the other? Every player has option to do either or both. They are in different slots so they arent "competiting" with eachother. It would be like arguing that damage mods are better than kin cat mods. Who cares? They dont compete." There is a whole race called Gallente that relies on armor tanking. Its currently the most useless race. You know why? I know why, because armor repairs at the speed of roadkill and the extenders for it make you move even slower. The speed debuff should either be racial or suit based - as in heavy's don't get a debuff or Gallente doesn't or something. Also, if they ever get around to putting a downside on shield tanking, the scout should be the suit that has zero downside... Like, you can make the modules work on every suit, but make them work more better-er on the suit they're intended for. At least Gallente scouts don't have to resort to shields anymore, thanks to ferroscale plates.
The upside to a scout is supposed to be hit and run, get out of battle, get your shields back up, and go back in shooting.
Unfortunately, since your lowslots are all eaten up by plates, you can't stack repair modules - and even if you did it still takes forever for them to regen, where as a regulator and extender combo occupy opposite slots allowing for better min/max capabilities. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
222
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Shields need to give their user a larger scan signature and larger hitbox. Armor should affect max stamina and stamina regen rate. While i'm okay with scan profile, you can't really mess with the hit boxes in this game or it'll go really bad really quick. hit boxes work very differently in eve, and it works, but in an fps hitboxes are everything. I feel like the better way to do it would be to have armor plates affect sprint speed and stamina only, leave the regen rate in. A profile penalty could work for shield extenders as long as shield tanking scouts get a significant bonus to profile dampening modules to help offset the penalty and still allow then to be viable.
Scout should be immune to the penalty - heavies should be immune to the armor penalty, every "role" while being fully customizable SHOULD get a bonus for using gear and mods central to their theoretical role.
Unfortunately that isn't the case so now we have super caldari logi troopers. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think an armor resistance mod would be worth a movement penalty, but given the fact that PG/CPU pretty much keeps the prospect of stacking these things in line the movement penalty in general is a bad idea.
The person who though of it should feel bad.
Go sit in the corner, you. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I will summarise. You will likely try to argue against this summary with an argument I have already countered in my thread, so it is still good reading material. I doubt you'll bother, though. - Armour gets less HP than shields overall, unless they stack plates in which case they cannot rep and move at the speed of a heavy. - Armour gets much much slower regen than shields, the constant regeneration does not compensate for this sufficiently. - Having a logistics player use an armour rep prevents them from shooting their gun, which is significantly more useful. - Armour moves slower than shields, making it easier to hit a player using armour - A logistics repairer repairs at a similar rate to shield regen. Using the prototype focused rep in an example is extremely biased. There are very few areas where armour beats shield. Can you give me an example of one? At this point, you realise that your argument is weak/wrong, so you begin to say "who cares anyway?"  Believe it or not, I'd actually quite like to play a balanced game. I wonder if CCP is not increasing armor EHP because of the remote rep tool and that is why they aren't doing anything. Cause if you remove the rep tool then it becomes painfully clear how bad armor tanking is.
Why they think sacrificing a gun at the cost of letting one dude live longer offers balance to armor, I will never know.
If the HMG was a legitimate threat in close quarters, and still armor tanked to the bejesus belt, then a logi keeping one up as long as possible would be viable.
As it stands now this is an entire area of the game that players will continue to puzzle over for as long as medical science has puzzled over the purpose of the appendix.
|
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
226
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:I wonder if people realize that the current armor mods right now are better than these new ones lol.
I'd like to challenge someone to find a fit using these new armor mods that will be better than the ones we already have..
I can't come up with one at least...
Caldari Logi..
|
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
227
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anita Hardone wrote:Kitten Empress wrote:And you're missing the point.
I'm done arguing, you have nothing to contribute to this thread. Lol someones giving up easily. You are just mad. Give yourself a few days to un rustle your jimmies. You think you know how everything should be, but balancing armor and shields is alot harder than what people make it out to be. Maybe if you could think harder about the outcome of some random change to Shield/Armor and how it effects the game itself instead of you personally... you may come up with a conclusion.
It's only hard because through out the beta nerf after nerf was made before all the weapons and gear went to market and now they have zero frame of reference from which to make proper balances.
What's the answer to armor tanking? Brute force with any weapon.
What's the answer to shield tanking? The three flux grenades I can carry, that BTW, suffer the same occlusion problem that explosives in general suffer from?
So I have to carry a special weapon to deal with shield tanking, but armor is a huge LOL. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
236
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 00:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Perhaps Armor isn't meant to be tanked, it's basically the Dust equivalent of red bar health from other games. Or maybe it's not meant to be tanked yet. For all we know Gallente Assualt and Heavy suits might get racial bonues that add to armor module efficiency by say lowering the speed reduction, raising the HP given, or adding a passive damage reduction. At this point we don't have all the suits or even all the weapons. I understand people might want to Armor Tank, and say that now it's not balanced to Shield Tanking, however we don't have all the pieces, so you can't say it's not balanced until we do.
Are you actually assigning intent to the decisions thy make concerning this game?
Stop doing that, you'll put your eye out. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|