DUST Search - [Scout] Dropsuit Balance

Cruxio wrote:

I never attacked speed increases directly, I was attacking the addition of more equipment slots on the Minmatar scout, which is what I read into your post. The speed boost would serve the combat oriented scouts more, but even as a gallante scout shottie, I've not run into too many issues revolving around speed, while I wouldn't mind a slight increase, and a small increase may be warranted, any major increase would attract the wrong kind of people to the scout (particularly assault players), this is what gave rise to the Matrix bullet dodging type of scout which drew the ire of the community that nerfed us into a very dark corner. So I am weary of speed buffs when the actual role of scouts is not really fulfilled as it is, and I'd like the focus to go in that direction.

I'd like the caldari and amarr scouts to be buffed with more cpu/pg and more equipment slots in exchange for combat abilities (light weapon removal?). This is how I see the scouts contrasted between roles at any rate. Add in EWAR and Cloacking and I'd be happy with where the suit is going.

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LittleCuteBunny Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 9	Posted - 2013.05.10 18:30:00 - [1] - Quote General thoughts The scout suit problem, I am not a scout suit user but you donGÇÖt need a brain to understand that a class that focuses on being a glass cannon that must hit and run should emphasize on shield recharge, mobility, cpu and being helpful for tactical positioning. Meaning that adding an armor plate will slow you so much it would not be even fun, so the most logical situation would be to add a regulator or speed/movement modules along with an armor repairer. The following proposed changes will add flexibility in CPU to both suits; scope their main duty in the battlefield, Gallente Scout. GÇ£The Glass CannonGÇ¥ Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to scan profile per level Gallente Scout Bonus: 10% decrease dropsuitGÇÖs scan profile per level G-Prototype@ \| CPU: 275 \| PG: 60 \| Shield: 70 \| Armor: 130 \| H-Power: 4 \| L-Power: 2 \| Equipment: 1 G/1-Series@ \| CPU: 185 \| PG: 45 \| Shield: 70 \| Armor: 130 \| H-Power: 2 \| L-Power: 2 \| Equipment: 1 G-I@ \| CPU: 135 \| PG: 30 \| Shield: 100 \| Armor: 70 \| H-Power: 2 \| L-Power: 1 \| Equipment: 1 Minmatar Scout: GÇ£The Tactical ScoutGÇ¥ Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to scan profile per level Minmatar Scout Bonus: 10% increase dropsuitGÇÖs scan precision per level M-Prototype@ \| CPU: 255 \| PG: 60 \| Shield: 100 \| Armor: 70 \| H-Power: 3 \| L-Power: 3 \| Equipment: 2 M/1-Series@ \| CPU: 165 \| PG: 45 \| Shield: 100 \| Armor: 70 \| H-Power: 2 \| L-Power: 2 \| Equipment: 1 M-I@ \| CPU: 125 \| PG: 30 \| Shield: 100 \| Armor: 70 \| H-Power: 1 \| L-Power: 2 \| Equipment: 1 Light Basic Frames Should be more expensive and by no means the prototype should be comparable to the racial specialized suits. Thus, I suggest the removal of one of the slots for each prototype suit under light basic frame based on the changes made the suits M-1, G-1, M/1, G/1 would remain the same G-Prototype@ \| CPU: 275 \| PG: 60 \| Shield: 70 \| Armor: 130 \| H-Power: 3 \| L-Power: 2 \| Equipment: 1 M-Prototype@ \| CPU: 255 \| PG: 60 \| Shield: 100 \| Armor: 70 \| H-Power: 2 \| L-Power: 3 \| Equipment: 2 Again, I do not play "scout" and this are just my thoughts on the subject
Blunt Puffing D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:56:00 - [2] - Quote Bump
Appia Vibbia Opus Arcana Orion Empire 30	Posted - 2013.05.11 20:58:00 - [3] - Quote LittleCuteBunny wrote: Again, I do not play "scout" and this are just my thoughts on the subject That is evident. The Gallente and Minmatar suits are just borked. Falling damage is messed up. you apparently take extra damage to shield and/or reduced damage to armor when falling. because form the same height my Gallente scout suit took more damage than my Minmatar scout suit (yes, Scout suits, not Light frames) when ~~falling~~ jumping over the same rail. Scouts want to use Precision Enhancers (hi slots), Profile Dampeners (low slots), Range Amplifiers (low slots), and Kinetic catalyzers (low slots). But an Armor Repairer and some shield recharger/shield regulators are desperately needed for that Hunter-Scout gameplay hit and run tactics. The range on the passive scanner has been cut from 25 to 10, without them releasing 1 iota of information of the angle of the scanner. The CPU and PG have been reduced, while all suits' shield and armor have been normalized to the type-1 for minmatar and type-2 for the Gallente. a higher tier suit doesn't add any. While the other frames increased theirs, the base speed on the scouts was also lowered. If I can't see, and I can't run. . . what do I do? The saving grace of the lowered speed is that you can run faster than people can turn because they messed up the aiming too. And anyone that strafes causes hit-detection problems Render distance has been "optimized" to make sure people can't snipe... so the "improved" graphics can be seen on larger maps... except try taking a look at the SMGs, they look like a pile of pixels when you shoot it.
Radar R4D-47 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 16	Posted - 2013.05.11 21:54:00 - [4] - Quote i no nothing of the gallente scout but if ccp touchs my minmatar scout suit in any way other then to increase cpu or pg i will be pissed the only thing it really needs is 2 equipment slots and a base cpu pg increase by 15 and 4 respectively other than that its balanced
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.05.12 12:46:00 - [5] - Quote Make the Tac AR a scout only weapon.
LittleCuteBunny Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 13	Posted - 2013.05.12 14:35:00 - [6] - Quote The idea behind the suggested modifications is to make each scout unique and a counter against each other In one hand Minmatar scout suit can gain advantage through it's additional equipment slot, i portrayed it to be more of a team asset with intel collection and jam, from another perspective the gallente scout suit would be capable of going unnoticed behind enemy lines and wrecking havok by setting uplinks or simply flanking enemies with a shotgun (people get the idea). All things considered the cpu and slots are key aspects of both suits but let us not forget about the mobility. Mobility is what is supposed to give the scouts an edge over the other suits, as we can see in the above information the statistics are comparable in some aspects to Minmatar and Amarr assault suits. Along with the previously statements, I believe this subject should be considered too. GallenteScout Movement speed 5.5 Sprint speed 7.6 Sprint duration 20s Stamina 200 Stamina Recovery 18/s Minmatar Scout Movement speed 5.7 Sprint speed 7.9 Sprint duration 20s Stamina 200 Stamina Recovery 18/s Minmatar Assault Movement speed 5.3 Sprint speed 7.4 Sprint duration 17.5s Stamina 175 Stamina Recovery 15/s Amarr Assault Movement speed 4.8 Sprint speed 6.7 Spint duration 20.s Stamina 200 Stamina Recovery 20/s
Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 7	Posted - 2013.05.12 19:04:00 - [7] - Quote Wouldn't it make more sense to give Gallente scouts more L-Power than H-Power, and Minmatar the opposite? This follows the HP distribution between shield and armor for each, and how slots are distributed in every other suit type. As it is, the roles for each are reversed from how you portray them... Gallente are for scanning and scouting (although this is broken and jamming doesn't exist) while Minmatar are faster and made for close combat.
Cruxio Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.05.12 19:45:00 - [8] - Quote I have been a dedicated scout user since day one of BETA, and the scout has always been a niche role. It also takes more skill and terrain knowledge to be effective. Since Uprising, there are 2 generic variations (pure combat and placement combat) in scouts with a hypothetical 3rd variant in the future. Scout 1: Pure Combat Minmatar Scout dominates this with high slots and speed a) Shotties (the one area where scouts have no competition) b) Snipers Scout 2: Placement Combat Not sure if Gallante will be the best, but they are better than Minmatar, and Gallante low slots help a lot with getting better detection and passive stealth a) Active Scanners (helps with hunting down opponents) b) Drop Uplinks, (to use stealth to get a better position for your team near or behind the enemy) c) Soon tm Stealth module or equipment (self-explanatory) Currently Active Scanners don't give out any points, just the warm fuzzy for helping your team and field layout for yourself. This is the weakest area for placement combat scouts at the moment, and that is the only downside to what they have provided us so far, but they need to expand non combat roles for scouts and this is where you will really see the suit grow. These are hypothetical but caldari and amar should dominate in the non-combat branches of scout roles, thus they should lose their light weapon slot to compensate for extra equipment slots Scout 3: EWAR A) Disorientation (jammers, false signals, ect) B) Pinning (temporarily short circuiting vehicles, hampering enemy movement) C) Placement equipment mentioned above but lacking their firepower
Cruxio Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.05.12 20:12:00 - [9] - Quote I disagree with giving Minmatar scout 2 equipment slots considering they are thy combat scout, with thy fastest speed and cqc damage buffs. If there was ever a case for 1 equipment slot, it would be the Minmatar. While Minmatar serves as the scout assault hybrid, the scout suit class is not meant to be the faster assault suit, which I think your suggestions are trying to gear it towards.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.12 23:57:00 - [10] - Quote Everyone in Dust is an 'Assault' (or trying to be) some are just wearing the Logi or the Scout suit. And I think this is wrong.

LittleCuteBunny Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 13	Posted - 2013.05.13 04:14:00 - [11] - Quote Cruxio wrote: They need to expand non combat roles for scouts and this is where you will really see the suit grow. Totally agree. CCP should look into helping the scout class grow more and become more useful. Cruxio wrote: If there was ever a case for 1 equipment slot, it would be the Minmatar. While Minmatar serves as the scout assault hybrid, the scout suit class is not meant to be the faster assault suit As far as I remember Minmatar scout already has 1 equipment slot. The scout class can at obtain around half of the maximum shield plus armor that a non prototype assault suit is capable of achieving and that is pushing the limit of the scout class too much. I do not see what would be the logic of making the class with the lowest capability of achieving a decent shield plus armor amount should not be a the "fastest class", I believe even a Type-1 caldari assault suit is capable of achieving a comparable shield plus armor that a prototype scout suit can reach. I must quote the following from wikipedia that is smart enough to understand: "A scout is a soldier performing reconnaissance and other support duties. Exploring beyond the area occupied by friendly forces to gain vital information about enemy forces or features of the environment for later analysis and/or dissemination. *Speed* was key in these maneuvers, thus infantry was ill suited to the task" Chilled Pill wrote: Everyone in Dust is an 'Assault' (or trying to be) some are just wearing the Logi or the Scout suit. And I think this is wrong. Totally agree, separation of tasks should be done. It is CCP's role to make changes that give the incentives for a class to be played and follow a differentiation pattern between classes. Suggestions might enrich the current view on the subject
Cruxio Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.05.13 04:36:00 - [12] - Quote I never attacked speed increases directly, I was attacking the addition of more equipment slots on the Minmatar scout, which is what I read into your post. The speed boost would serve the combat oriented scouts more, but even as a gallante scout shottie, I've not run into too many issues revolving around speed, while I wouldn't mind a slight increase, this seems to attract the wrong kind of people to the scout (particularly assault players), this is what gave rise to the Matrix bullet dodging type of scout which drew the ire of the community that nerfed us into a very dark corner. So I am weary of speed buffs when the actual role of scouts is not really fulfilled as it is, and I'd like the focus to go in that direction. I'd like the caldari and amarr scouts to be buffed with more cpu/pg and more equipment slots in exchange for combat abilities (light weapon removal?). This is how I see the scouts contrasted between roles at any rate. Add in EWAR and Cloacking and I'd be happy with where the suit is going.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 795	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:28:00 - [13] - Quote Cruxio wrote: I never attacked speed increases directly, I was attacking the addition of more equipment slots on the Minmatar scout, which is what I read into your post. The speed boost would serve the combat oriented scouts more, but even as a gallante scout shottie, I've not run into too many issues revolving around speed, while I wouldn't mind a slight increase, and a small increase may be warranted, any major increase would attract the wrong kind of people to the scout (particularly assault players), this is what gave rise to the Matrix bullet dodging type of scout which drew the ire of the community that nerfed us into a very dark corner. So I am weary of speed buffs when the actual role of scouts is not really fulfilled as it is, and I'd like the focus to go in that direction. I'd like the caldari and amarr scouts to be buffed with more cpu/pg and more equipment slots in exchange for combat abilities (light weapon removal?). This is how I see the scouts contrasted between roles at any rate. Add in EWAR and Cloacking and I'd be happy with where the suit is going. Exactly. With all the changes made, it looks like CCP is laying groundwork for new equipment and modules in the near future. Minmatar is made for speed tanking (and how) and CQC, Gallente is groomed for more EWAR and cloaking. And call be crazy, but judging by the logi slot allocations, they might be getting shoehorned into the tackling role.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 99	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:15:00 - [14] - Quote I may not agree with the slot layouts as suggested by the OP, but I think rebalancing scouts should be considered as well as taking a hard look at EWAR and the non-entity it has become on the battlefield.


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