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XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 00:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.
Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL. |
Dany 7A5H
G I A N T
14
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 00:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
XV1 wrote:Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.
Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL.
Just no. No they arnt too slow, dont even go there.
get closed before you shoot them.
Afterburners kinda make u run from missles, isnt that the point?
EDIT: Buffing speed would screw ground vehicles.
furthermore itsnot like dropships are a MAJOR threat atm...theyre paper thin, and if anything it causes less infantry/ground vehicles to deal with.
If theyre shooting at you theyre in range to shoot them back. |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
254
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 01:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Skill up. Use something other than the Militia Swarm Launcher.
Watch others and when the Kill Feed says FredTheDropShipKiller has taken someone else down see what weapon was used. Militia weaponry is to get you started. Not to one shot Everything on the planet.
Now, why don't you go ask these question in the proper Forum? The Training Ground works fine for this.
No OP/Buff/Nerf thread needed. Nothing to see here, move along. New Berry asking questions, that is all. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
763
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 03:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
XV1 wrote:Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.
Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL. We can't even out run swarms anymore now the nerfed the afterburner, our only defence against AV right now is too stay out of range and tank it which isn't the most appealing option given how fragile they are |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
756
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dropships got nerfed again by losing their speed, asking for another buff makes me think you're looking for ezmode. Go away eznub.
I'd post more but everyone above has hit the nail on the head. |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Skill up. Use something other than the Militia Swarm Launcher.
Watch others and when the Kill Feed says FredTheDropShipKiller has taken someone else down see what weapon was used. Militia weaponry is to get you started. Not to one shot Everything on the planet.
Now, why don't you go ask these question in the proper Forum? The Training Ground works fine for this.
No OP/Buff/Nerf thread needed. Nothing to see here, move along. New Berry asking questions, that is all.
Ok I have the best swarm launcher with 6 missiles per shot that all do no good if any drop ship I fire at just flys out of their range.
This is a request forum where I am REQUESTING that swarm launchers be better at taking airships as that seems to be the best use for a cluster of tracking missiles. Currently even with damage mods I can only really threaten either an idiot pilot or perhaps an armor based dropship as the shield ones take far less damage and ANY dropship can move far faster than I can moving out of my missile range quickly and easily.
I am not asking for OP the SL I would only like to see some way to increase their effectiveness against fast targets. Perhaps a modules or skill or even a specialized SL with less damage for faster missiles anything would do. |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
By the way ground vehicles seem to be easy enough to hit now so an increase in speed would have little affects on them as they cannot get away already. |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Dropships got nerfed again by losing their speed, asking for another buff makes me think you're looking for ezmode. Go away eznub.
I'd post more but everyone above has hit the nail on the head.
Just go away. |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
XV1 wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:Skill up. Use something other than the Militia Swarm Launcher.
Watch others and when the Kill Feed says FredTheDropShipKiller has taken someone else down see what weapon was used. Militia weaponry is to get you started. Not to one shot Everything on the planet.
Now, why don't you go ask these question in the proper Forum? The Training Ground works fine for this.
No OP/Buff/Nerf thread needed. Nothing to see here, move along. New Berry asking questions, that is all. Ok I have the best swarm launcher with 6 missiles per shot that all do no good if any drop ship I fire at just flys out of their range. This is a request forum where I am REQUESTING that swarm launchers be better at taking airships as that seems to be the best use for a cluster of tracking missiles. Currently even with damage mods I can only really threaten either an idiot pilot or perhaps an armor based dropship as the shield ones take far less damage and ANY dropship can move far faster than I can moving out of my missile range quickly and easily. I am not asking for OP the SL I would only like to see some way to increase their effectiveness against fast targets. Perhaps a modules or skill or even a specialized SL with less damage for faster missiles anything would do.
You cant come on hear moaning about dropship pilots like myself beibg skilled enough to fly away what do you want an instsnt win button cause thats what it sounds like. QQ the dropship can counter my swarms QQ I want a win button |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
757
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm sorry, I pointed out you're looking for an ezmode and you don't like it? Stop being a scrub and get good, can't hit a dropship (Which really offers no threat at all), get ******* closer you mug. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3222
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 11:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
XV1 wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:Skill up. Use something other than the Militia Swarm Launcher.
Watch others and when the Kill Feed says FredTheDropShipKiller has taken someone else down see what weapon was used. Militia weaponry is to get you started. Not to one shot Everything on the planet.
Now, why don't you go ask these question in the proper Forum? The Training Ground works fine for this.
No OP/Buff/Nerf thread needed. Nothing to see here, move along. New Berry asking questions, that is all. Ok I have the best swarm launcher with 6 missiles per shot that all do no good if any drop ship I fire at just flys out of their range. This is a request forum where I am REQUESTING that swarm launchers be better at taking airships as that seems to be the best use for a cluster of tracking missiles. Currently even with damage mods I can only really threaten either an idiot pilot or perhaps an armor based dropship as the shield ones take far less damage and ANY dropship can move far faster than I can moving out of my missile range quickly and easily. I am not asking for OP the SL I would only like to see some way to increase their effectiveness against fast targets. Perhaps a modules or skill or even a specialized SL with less damage for faster missiles anything would do.
You have the right to make requests, but people have the right to express their dislike and disagreement regarding your request. Dropships can't outrun swarm launchers, even with active fuel injectors activated. Dropships have it hard enough as it is without giving swarm launchers a pointless buff. Swarm launchers take no skill to anyway; just lock on and fire, its unreasonable to ask for so much from such a weapon.
EDIT: I want you to make a new character on a different account, spend time, SP, and ISK into dropships, and see what its like to be a dropship pilot. You may see things differently, and realize the problem with what you ask. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 14:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
I completely agree with the OP. I was in a similar thread and everyone agreed with me. No ship should be able to outrun a missile that, in theory, SHOULD be going Mach 3-4. On the other hand, this should not be implemented until dropships are given proper countermeasures (flak, flares, evasive tactics etc.) |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
188
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 14:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. |
Samael Theosi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 15:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree that Swarm Missiles should be faster, but only if they tracked slower. I'm tired of them doing 90-degree turns in little over a second. There could maybe be a variant gave up some speed and damage for tracking speed, but the standard swarm missiles track ridiculously well. No use trying to dodge them, only outrunning them, which isn't very realistic. SAMs in real-life are faster than most aircraft, especially helicopters (which are the closest equivalent we have to dropships), but you could avoid them by doing some sick evasion maneuvers. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 16:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution.
One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1080
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 16:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me.
Nobody said they woud accept it before other countermeasures were introduced. CCP went ahead and let swarms outrun dropships on full AB without introducing any countermeasure.
Now you have your free, no-aim, fire from cover, auto-hit noob launcher that can deny battlefield access to an entire class of vehicles - a class that is struggling desperately to find a useful role after being repeatedly abused by CCP.
Don't be surprised when pilots take the as the equivalent of complaining that puppies run away too fast as you are kicking them.
|
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
789
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 16:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Skihids wrote:slypie11 wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me. Nobody said they woud accept it before other countermeasures were introduced. CCP went ahead and let swarms outrun dropships on full AB without introducing any countermeasure. Now you have your free, no-aim, fire from cover, auto-hit noob launcher that can deny battlefield access to an entire class of vehicles - a class that is struggling desperately to find a useful role after being repeatedly abused by CCP. Don't be surprised when pilots take that as the equivalent of complaining that puppies run away too fast as you are kicking them. can't wait for fighters and gunships when we'll be able to shoot back. and as someone who uses both swarms and dropships things are pretty much balanced right now, the only thing that needs to be fixed is swarms habit of flying into every available piece of terrain between you and your target (talking about ground targets here, kinda hard to have swarms hit terrain when shooting at a dropship) and their tracking ability, it's ******** how tightly those missiles can turn it makes evasive maneuvers impossible. |
Dany 7A5H
G I A N T
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 17:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
XV1 wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:Skill up. Use something other than the Militia Swarm Launcher.
Watch others and when the Kill Feed says FredTheDropShipKiller has taken someone else down see what weapon was used. Militia weaponry is to get you started. Not to one shot Everything on the planet.
Now, why don't you go ask these question in the proper Forum? The Training Ground works fine for this.
No OP/Buff/Nerf thread needed. Nothing to see here, move along. New Berry asking questions, that is all. Ok I have the best swarm launcher with 6 missiles per shot that all do no good if any drop ship I fire at just flys out of their range. This is a request forum where I am REQUESTING that swarm launchers be better at taking airships as that seems to be the best use for a cluster of tracking missiles. Currently even with damage mods I can only really threaten either an idiot pilot or perhaps an armor based dropship as the shield ones take far less damage and ANY dropship can move far faster than I can moving out of my missile range quickly and easily. I am not asking for OP the SL I would only like to see some way to increase their effectiveness against fast targets. Perhaps a modules or skill or even a specialized SL with less damage for faster missiles anything would do.
Dear XV1
I have come, and I believe with other posters of this thread, to the unanimous conclusion that you simply get pissy that you cant WTFPWN every vehicle you see.
I further believe that you DO NOT have the best quad dmg mod proto swarm launcher, as it CAN 1-2 hit a droppship
Furthermore, shield dropships DO NOT take as much dmg for the following reason:
Due to inherit resitances: -Shields take 70% dmg from explosives -Armor takes 130% dmg from explosives
Therefore theoretically AT THIS TIME, Shield Dropships are meta, even though I think the Prometheus is sexy and i'll still use it.
ALSO note that that being said, swarms are not the most effective at taking down Caldari dropships, but: -WEAPONS that are, are coming SOONtm, and this threads request would severly delay them and other "****" we NEED. -THEY WORK GREAT vs everything else -and WTF are you hating dropships for, theyre a transport vehicle! they honestly arnt even a real threat! -If the dropship gunners are an issue, shoot them...jeez, I kill them all the time then the thing is a bonus as there are poeple NOT on the ground shooting you!
Furthermore, buffing SWARM lock speed and or flight speed will further SCREW HAVs, as the only thing going for us with NO WAY to outrun or delock your missiles is to tank them...that flight times saves my ass as I can rep between volleys! I assure you, my tank blowing up will cost more than you typically spend in three matches, so you wanting to be able to do that every match is fuc*ing ridiculous.
ALSO people saying swarms take to long to lock on...your just impatient! 1 Proto Swarmer can effectivly take out a single tank..considering an EFFECTIVE TANK has 3 people in it, thats just NOT FAIR.
and FURTHERMORE, anyone that keeps making these whaste of time threads that demand the nurf of vehicles and buff of AV--->
I CHALLENGE YOU:
for a week, you will and only will drive HAVs and fly dropships, and we will see your consensus at the end,
currently your talking from a 1-sided lazy experience and its simply ignorant and overall arrogant.!
|
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Skihids wrote:slypie11 wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me. Nobody said they woud accept it before other countermeasures were introduced. CCP went ahead and let swarms outrun dropships on full AB without introducing any countermeasure. Now you have your free, no-aim, fire from cover, auto-hit noob launcher that can deny battlefield access to an entire class of vehicles - a class that is struggling desperately to find a useful role after being repeatedly abused by CCP. Don't be surprised when pilots take that as the equivalent of complaining that puppies run away too fast as you are kicking them.
I don't know about you, but my free SL doesn't do anything. I can understand that it doesn't do any damage, but it should be able to outrun a dropship. I'm not asking to nerf dropships or buff AV damage, but a soon as dropships get proper countermeasures, make swarm missiles faster. I just want it to feel like real war, and that's how it is in real war. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
P.S, I'm 13 and I can post more mature things than you. Just think about that next time you add to this thread. |
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
790
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Skihids wrote:slypie11 wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me. Nobody said they woud accept it before other countermeasures were introduced. CCP went ahead and let swarms outrun dropships on full AB without introducing any countermeasure. Now you have your free, no-aim, fire from cover, auto-hit noob launcher that can deny battlefield access to an entire class of vehicles - a class that is struggling desperately to find a useful role after being repeatedly abused by CCP. Don't be surprised when pilots take that as the equivalent of complaining that puppies run away too fast as you are kicking them. I don't know about you, but my free SL doesn't do anything. I can understand that it doesn't do any damage, but it should be able to outrun a dropship. I'm not asking to nerf dropships or buff AV damage, but a soon as dropships get proper countermeasures, make swarm missiles faster. I just want it to feel like real war, and that's how it is in real war. It's a free SL, it's supposed to do fuckall against higher tier vehicles, upgrade to better kit if you want to bring vehicles down easier |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1081
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Skihids wrote:slypie11 wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me. Nobody said they woud accept it before other countermeasures were introduced. CCP went ahead and let swarms outrun dropships on full AB without introducing any countermeasure. Now you have your free, no-aim, fire from cover, auto-hit noob launcher that can deny battlefield access to an entire class of vehicles - a class that is struggling desperately to find a useful role after being repeatedly abused by CCP. Don't be surprised when pilots take that as the equivalent of complaining that puppies run away too fast as you are kicking them. I don't know about you, but my free SL doesn't do anything. I can understand that it doesn't do any damage, but it should be able to outrun a dropship. I'm not asking to nerf dropships or buff AV damage, but a soon as dropships get proper countermeasures, make swarm missiles faster. I just want it to feel like real war, and that's how it is in real war.
Aparrently you hsve a defectve launcher, because I've taken out dropships with the starter fit SL with zero skills invested in the weapon. I have also destroyed HAVs and installations with it.
In "real war" there are all manner of no-skill OHK weapons, but we are playing a skill based shooter, not a war simulation. Following that line of reasoning I should be able to plant OHK infantry proximity mines all over the map. I should be able to call in an AC-130 to circle the map at altitude and rain down multi-caliber death from above. I should have automated sentry guns. I should have super aim-assist built into my advanced weapons brains.
Why don't we have all those realistic weapons? Because a realistic war simulation is boring.
This is a (supposedly) skill based game, and there is no place for a no-skill weapon in a skill based game. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Did you not read when I said I can understand that it doesn't do any damage? |
Void Echo
A.I.
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
XV1 wrote:Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.
Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL.
plain NO, if that were to happen then we would need to give all the small turrets unlimited range |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skihids wrote:slypie11 wrote:Skihids wrote:slypie11 wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I remember that thread. No one agreed with you. We agreed that we'd be willing to accept swarms being faster than dropships IF countermeasures were implemented, not that that is the only or best solution. One, that's sort of what agreeing mean, and two, in the end, everyone did agree with me. Nobody said they woud accept it before other countermeasures were introduced. CCP went ahead and let swarms outrun dropships on full AB without introducing any countermeasure. Now you have your free, no-aim, fire from cover, auto-hit noob launcher that can deny battlefield access to an entire class of vehicles - a class that is struggling desperately to find a useful role after being repeatedly abused by CCP. Don't be surprised when pilots take that as the equivalent of complaining that puppies run away too fast as you are kicking them. I don't know about you, but my free SL doesn't do anything. I can understand that it doesn't do any damage, but it should be able to outrun a dropship. I'm not asking to nerf dropships or buff AV damage, but a soon as dropships get proper countermeasures, make swarm missiles faster. I just want it to feel like real war, and that's how it is in real war. Aparrently you hsve a defectve launcher, because I've taken out dropships with the starter fit SL with zero skills invested in the weapon. I have also destroyed HAVs and installations with it. In "real war" there are all manner of no-skill OHK weapons, but we are playing a skill based shooter, not a war simulation. Following that line of reasoning I should be able to plant OHK infantry proximity mines all over the map. I should be able to call in an AC-130 to circle the map at altitude and rain down multi-caliber death from above. I should have automated sentry guns. I should have super aim-assist built into my advanced weapons brains. Why don't we have all those realistic weapons? Because a realistic war simulation is boring. This is a (supposedly) skill based game, and there is no place for a no-skill weapon in a skill based game.
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1130
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
After the most recent nerf, a dropship with afterburners can't even outrun swarms. Why would they need to be faster yet? |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Because dropships can outrun swarms |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
791
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 18:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2105
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 19:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective.
If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher.
Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1082
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 19:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
It doesn't require any skill, I can teach a six year old with poor eye/hand coordination to effectively use a SL. Noting that a dropship is within range doesn't take any skill if you aren't sure you can always read the range off your weapon. Not getting killed by infantry is a side issue and is simple matter of carrying a decent sidearm/grenade and not standing out in the open. |
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 19:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective. If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher. Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. But this is the root of my complaint against the turning circle of swarms, if i'm afterburing towards you, you shoot off a swarm, i then fly past the swarm because it was tracking towads me and i had the highest velocity between us, the missiles which in any other game would either lose a lock on at this point or take several seconds to turn turns nearly 180* in an instant and hits home, and the only "skill" involved with swarms is judging how far way the target is, your chances of hitting,k your positioning, and what direction you point the launcher when you fire |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective. If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher. Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. But this is the root of my complaint against the turning circle of swarms, if i'm afterburing towards you, you shoot off a swarm, i then fly past the swarm because it was tracking towads me and i had the highest velocity between us, the missiles which in any other game would either lose a lock on at this point or take several seconds to turn turns nearly 180* in an instant and hits home, and the only "skill" involved with swarms is judging how far way the target is, your chances of hitting,k your positioning, and what direction you point the launcher when you fire
CCP certainly need to up their game on the specifics of the SL lock on. Situations akin to the one you describes are inexcusable to dropship pilots, as this thread has certainly proven. But obviously, you people are too stubborn to even consider the proposal I've stated many times. You just can't understand anyone's point of view but your own. Lock on missiles are pointless if they can't outrun the thing their locking on too. There would then have to be countermeasures in place to counter these "skill-less weapons". Next time you reply, please make it relevant. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1082
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
The SL is a no-skill weapon. It doesn't pit my flying skill against your ability to track and maintain a lock. You just aim in my general direction and pull the trigger, then hide.
If there is a no-skill weapon in a skill based game, there needs to be a no-skill counter to it.
In this case that could be a chaff system. You see me and fire your auto missiles, I see them and fire my chaff launcher and evade your missiles. You sacrifice a light weapon slot for your launcher and I sacrifice an equipment slot or my chaff launcher, all even.
The problem is the SL out paces a dropship now and there is no counter. We've even seen people requesting SLs be sidearms so they don't have to sacrifice a light weapon slot. That reveals a complete disregard for balance. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:gbghg wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective. If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher. Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. But this is the root of my complaint against the turning circle of swarms, if i'm afterburing towards you, you shoot off a swarm, i then fly past the swarm because it was tracking towads me and i had the highest velocity between us, the missiles which in any other game would either lose a lock on at this point or take several seconds to turn turns nearly 180* in an instant and hits home, and the only "skill" involved with swarms is judging how far way the target is, your chances of hitting,k your positioning, and what direction you point the launcher when you fire CCP certainly need to up their game on the specifics of the SL lock on. Situations akin to the one you describes are inexcusable to dropship pilots, as this thread has certainly proven. But obviously, you people are too stubborn to even consider the proposal I've stated many times. You just can't understand anyone's point of view but your own. Lock on missiles are pointless if they can't outrun the thing their locking on too. There would then have to be countermeasures in place to counter these "skill-less weapons". Next time you reply, please make it relevant. We're not being stubborn we're just saying that right now there's no need for this and it should only be implemented after we get countermeasures and fighters where a higher speed will be required, and traditionally you see different types of missiles used to target aircraft and ground vehicles, one has a high speed but low payload, the other a slower speed but higher payload, the swarms seem to currently sit at a compromise point between the two methodologies.
and I reserve the right to go slightly of topic |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
THIS IS WHAT I WAS SAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! Also there is a need for this right now since ground to air missiles goin slower than a dropship throws any sense of realism out the window. But seeing as dropships would be blown out of the sky as soon as they got in the air, they would certainly need countermeasures before SLs got any of the buffs they so desperately need |
bacon blaster
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
XV1 wrote:Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.
Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL.
Step one: Use more than militia swarms. Step two: Learn what is more effective against who.
Swarmers are most effective against armor, but suffer reduced effectiveness against shields. To deal with shield tanked vehicles, go with forge guns.
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:THIS IS WHAT I WAS SAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! Also there is a need for this right now since ground to air missiles goin slower than a dropship throws any sense of realism out the window. But seeing as dropships would be blown out of the sky as soon as they got in the air, they would certainly need countermeasures before SLs got any of the buffs they so desperately need on what you were saying about realism
Quote:and traditionally you see different types of missiles used to target aircraft and ground vehicles, one has a high speed but low payload, the other a slower speed but higher payload, the swarms seem to currently sit at a compromise point between the two methodologies. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
well my two cents as i gave up reading somewhere on the second page is to change the skill from blast range(lol pointless now) to speed of missiles as this would give reason to skill into this without buffing the free fit without cause.
dropship can outrun swarms, seen it tons since the "nerf" of afterburners. better dropships already are a pain to shoot down with missiles if you can due to the really slow speed of missiles and using a forge is ok but has a slow moving round making it somewhat of skill on the players part.
only dropships i shoot down with missiles were bad pilots who didn't have a much more then the base fit militia dropship and honestly i see no reason to skill into SL till the skill for it is reworked. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Actually, that's not a bad idea. Realistically, all missiles would be faster than dropships, but for the sake of "balance" I think I could deal with this. |
copy left
BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no. |
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slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Have you been reading the rest of the posts? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
copy left wrote:NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no. you have not been on both sides have you? btw its not barely they can out run swarms as they are slightly faster then the base as it is now without afterburners. with afterburners lol pull out a fogre gun as thats only the way your going to hit a decent DS pilot. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
798
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
ladwar wrote:copy left wrote:NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no. you have not been on both sides have you? btw its not barely they can out run swarms as they are slightly faster then the base as it is now without afterburners. with afterburners lol pull out a fogre gun as thats only the way your going to hit a decent DS pilot. have you shot at a dropship since the patch? we could outrun the swarms before, we can't now. we can get out of range before the swarms hit if we already have some distance but we can't outrun them like before |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
i have and only the first volley hit and all the rest were misses, he didn't run till after the second volley was fired which missed, no afterburner used. he was 60m above me. |
Solo 2Forty
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
anyway, SL are useless. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
188
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Solo 2Forty wrote:anyway, SL are useless. As a former HAV driver, I disagree. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2107
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
ladwar wrote:i have and only the first volley hit and all the rest were misses, he didn't run till after the second volley was fired which missed, no afterburner used. he was 60m above me. Unless he got terrain or building between him and your missiles, I'm inclined to not believe this story, since even with Militia Swarms, this has never happened to me.
And I've had a target at about 60m that started moving as my second lock was acquired, and couldn't build up the necessary speed to escape them. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
no terrain or building just explodes mid air chasing the dropship. was kindof mad but i pulled out my assault forge gun and made him slam into a building after the second shot. anyways been thinking about and militia SL need more nerf hammers so make them slower then the rest while standard and higher have the same (base) and having the skill increase the missiles speed by 2% each level so there is a reason to skill into them. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
ladwar wrote:no terrain or building just explodes mid air chasing the dropship. was kindof mad but i pulled out my assault forge gun and made him slam into a building after the second shot. anyways been thinking about and militia SL need more nerf hammers so make them slower then the rest while standard and higher have the same (base) and having the skill increase the missiles speed by 2% each level so there is a reason to skill into them.
No thanks, militia SLs are slow enough already |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
copy left wrote:NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no.
So for some reason you think that when the ENTIRE enemy team picks on you that you should be able to just move away and not suffer a loss? |
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XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
This has gotten quite off topic I simply think that SL need an entire overhall. Maybe make little less damage per missile, slightly faster or give skill speed increase instead of useless skill now and perhaps lower tracking ability to allow DS to dodge them with proper maneuvers. Overall I would like to see a heavy increase on speed and heavy decrease on tracking.
BTW to those that think tanks would have to TANK the damage with SL speed increase...... its called a tank. |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
Also has anyone noticed that getting an actual kill from shooting down a DS is difficult, even when you actually shoot them to zero armor they still get plenty of time to bail and avoid death. |
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