What's the point of playing a RPG if you can't develop your character and have so much better things?

I mean, SP loses sense if you play to get better and use Proto things but you have not so much difference with an "advance" guy or a "milita" guy.

You need to play like 3 weeks and get all the SP just to train the skill to use Proto suits. If you spend 1 240 000 SP in just 1 skill, i think you want to feel powerful, stronger, etc, but it doesn't look to have a great difference with advance suits, or combat II suit, and you already need to be worried about don't die to preserve your ISK.

Also with weapons. The difference between Proto and Standar weapons, it's not so much, at least in AR.

I just want to know the reason of this "change" because now, SP it doesn't look so important for me.

Sorry for the english. See you

What's the point of playing a RPG if you can't develop your character and have so much better things?

I mean, SP loses sense if you play to get better and use Proto things but you have not so much difference with an "advance" guy or a "milita" guy.

You need to play like 3 weeks and get all the SP just to train the skill to use Proto suits. If you spend 1 240 000 SP in just 1 skill, i think you want to feel powerful, stronger, etc, but it doesn't look to have a great difference with advance suits, or combat II suit, and you already need to be worried about don't die to preserve your ISK.

Also with weapons. The difference between Proto and Standar weapons, it's not so much, at least in AR.

I just want to know the reason of this "change" because now, SP it doesn't look so important for me.

Sorry for the english. See you

because DUST is also a FPS first and foremost and an "RPG" 2nd
having Gear be the main decider in who wins gunfights is BAD for a FPS
hence the suit nerf and now weapon nerfs
the plan is to give u small advantages not large ones

i do feel the prices of some stuff might need to be brought down a tad but so far working as intended

and proto suits with higher cpu/pg and slots already give u a big advantage over someone who has to fit less powerful mods and guns on his lower tier suit.

The lower discrepancies factor in the bonuses you get from higher skill levels so the gap is still there, but isn't excessive.

This attitude is bad for the game.

I'll explain on irc if you want.

This game should not be about endless hisec matches and unfortunately that is what this game is being balanced for as people cry for proto nerfs etc.

This game should be about newer players and casuals running low ISK matches in standard suits in hisec.

Proto suits in lowsec/FW. Better clans and players.

Officer suits in nullsec. Most dangerous clans and players.

The crying on the forums is ruining the game before it begins.

So should standard suits be competitive in nullsec then? Because that's where this game is currently going....

Suits are another issue. With the bonuses you get from higher skill level, you still get barely any advantage for upgrading. I know a lot of people think the hp upgrades were excessive in E3, removing them completely just makes me want to stick with a Type-II.

This attitude is bad for the game.

I'll explain on irc if you want.

This game should not be about endless hisec matches and unfortunately that is what this game is being balanced for as people cry for proto nerfs etc.

This game should be about newer players and casuals running low ISK matches in standard fits in hisec.

Proto fits in lowsec/FW. Better clans and players.

Officer fits in nullsec. Most dangerous clans and players.

The crying on the forums is ruining the game before it begins.

Suits are another issue. With the bonuses you get from higher skill level, you still get barely any advantage for upgrading. I know a lot of people think the hp upgrades were excessive in E3, removing them completely just makes me want to stick with a Type-II.

no ppl want crutches
ur higher cpu/pg and mod slots already give u a bigger advantage over the lower tier player so why do u need a BASE hp buff when u already can get ALOT more HP by fitting MORE HIGHER end mods?

no ppl want crutches
ur higher cpu/pg and mod slots already give u a bigger advantage over the lower tier player so why do u need a BASE hp buff when u already can get ALOT more HP by fitting MORE HIGHER end mods?

I'm not going to be playing this game if it continues to be about pubstomping. It's tedious.

If you and your scrubs want to stay in hisec stomping pubs with protogear have fun ;)

Here is a transcript from IRC that you missed -

Telc: its not really a particular set of nerfs/flattening
Telc: its the general trend
Telc: the game is getting wrecked by crying
Telc: because there is gear in game that is being used where it shouldn't be used
Mobius_Wyvern: For example?
Telc: any proto gear
Telc: do you seriously want us to be farming hisec players in 6 months?
Telc: think about the game when it has other outlets for players
Telc: ie FW and nullsec
Telc: when FW is released
Telc: the isk payouts in hisec should be radically reduced
Telc: make it too expensive to run proto gear
GoD-NoVa: preach it
Telc: fw payouts should be much better
Telc: so good players go to fw
Telc: yet noone on the forums thinks about this at all
Telc: they just cry and cry about getting stomped
Mobius_Wyvern: Right now there's not really a reason to change
Mobius_Wyvern: Plenty of reason to discuss it
Mobius_Wyvern: But hi-sec is all we have right now
GoD-NoVa: just like in eve if the good players want to get more money and better stuff they need to go to null
Telc: imo its totally counterproductive
Mobius_Wyvern: And we still need to test things
Telc: we aren't testing ****
Mobius_Wyvern: Say what?
Telc: this is just endless thrashing of crappy balance choices
Mobius_Wyvern: Ah, ok
Telc: ie
Telc: we are finely tuning the balance
Telc: for an artificial situation
Telc: a situation I won't be playing
Telc: because its a tedious game this way
Telc: i think that anyone coming into FW before they are ready
Telc: should die really quickly
Telc: ie
Telc: they aren't geared for it
Telc: and they aren't skilled enough for it
Telc: so they have to work for it
Telc: ie "progression"
Mobius_Wyvern: Right
Telc: so these proto suit/proto weapon flattenings
Telc: have harmed a game that doesn't exist yet
Telc: all to make a bunch of whiners happier with the "balance"
Mobius_Wyvern: I gotta agree that I don't see the appeal in pub stomping
Mobius_Wyvern: I'm going for FW as soon as I can
Mobius_Wyvern: And I think a lot of people will be doing the same
Mobius_Wyvern: They only people worried about pub stomping are the pubs
Telc: we'll be waiting ;)

sorry but we dont intend to be pubstomping either we plan to be in FW and Null just like u do sir.
also if the gear doesnt give u a big advantage then why would we be pubstomping with proto gear we dont even use proto suits in pubs most of my peeps in standard and adv sooooo yeaa..........

u arent seeing my side of the argument so its kool.

competitive shooters take a look at them.
DUST still gives u a good advantage with higher tier gear as is.
Why should a clan v clan match be decided on who brought the higher tier gear? that goes against anything in a competitive shooter.

The game is going to be stratified or layered by Hi/Low(FW)/Null

I'm guessing people won't even be in FW if they can't field 16+ and are in corp that can front the ISK to be full proto.

Look what I said about the ISK payouts now vs then.

They should be radically reduced for Hisec so that even advanced is a bit of a stretch for pubstomping risk/reward (Btw I haven't even trained proto suits because I haven't really needed them.)

I want good players to be FORCED to corp up, proto up and go to FW.

Then all this balancing is pointless because you wont have good players in proto in hisec AND you wont have cheap scrubs in lowsec.

I don't want anyone in lowsec in anything LESS than proto.

We will be playing each other (I expect you to be there too bro) in lowsec GEARED with LOTS of ISK on the line. It will be a lot more fun.

Yes, new players should be at a disadvantage to experienced players. However everyone is being caught up in how it works in the beta as we only have pub matches. On full release, these players will be split so there shouldn't have been a reason to alter weapon play to make things more even; as that is what match type will do in full release.

Also you CHOSE to spec all your SP into proto gear to get an edge rather than looking at all the skills available like i did. Granted ive only been in the game 2 weeks so i have the benefit of coming in after all the changes(which is why you guys should have gotten a wipe).

But first thing i realized was there would be no way to sustain high tier gear for long. Instead i took what AUR i did have and get tier I militia BPO suit and modules and tier I armor gear.

Instead of trying to get fancy dropsuits ive left my dropsuit spec at 2 and speced into shiled boost, shiled enhancement, and field mechanics, to get native boosts to my character regardless of what equipment i have on, same with weaponry, 1 weapon operation and sharpshooter.

This gives me the most bang for my buck regardless of gear. Perhaps if you did this you wouldnt feel iike you wasted SP in gear you shouldnt be using yet anyway.

If you take the security model into acct it makes sense that you first buildup your character then you buildup equipment. Its like trying to curl 150lbs before you can even bench press 150lbs.

Thats just the way you do it in RPG's. YOu dont get the shiny toys before youve got the base stats built otherwise their bonuses are just a waste.

Edit-Stop blaming the devs because of the way you chose to spend your skill points. That was your choice to go that route just because it isnt reaping the benefits you like doesnt mean the game is wrong. You just mismanged the points. Do what i did and create a new character and dont expect to be a god inside of a month let along a week or two.

QFT

i still dont know what QFT is? and reedited, as left part out in that statment

you do realize that in your 2 week experience, most of us have been playing for 6 months; so everything you said we already know and have done. Don't assume we all went straight proto suits, and have nothing into other categories; as people do things at their own pace and need.

QuotedForTruth

i have to agree w/ Telc, Mavado. As it currently stands, what you are asking for is to allow people of equal skill to be on equal footing running basic gear as proto gear.

Yes, personal skill will give edges; but gear ALSO needs to give a reasonable edge, w/o being to destroying. There is a problem when you say basic should compete equally with proto gear. This then raising the question as to what is the point of progressing in the game. If you can run basic gear 24/7 and compete w/ proto gear 24/7, then sense of SP becomes useless. Proto will give you a few extra trinkets, but as it is, it is minimal. Extra high slot; yippy, get extra 22-66 shield, meaning 1-2 bullets which u wont even really notice; or extra damage, that is isn't that noticeable either.

If player A competes equally to player B in (assume equal skill); then why wait time and SP to upgrade your guns, your dropsuits, your armor, etc? The idea of minimizing the gear gap; reduces the need for progress. I haven't played many MMO's, as mainly been an fps players; but in MMO's i believe, a lv 1 character will NEVER be on par with a lv 50 character no matter skill. Part of this NEEDS to be addressed; as everyone is saying this is an FPS first, which it isn't. It is equally and FPS and MMO at the same time, so need to take parts of each game together and not weight one more-so then the other.

Yes, new players should be at a disadvantage to experienced players, to an extent. However everyone is being caught up in how it works in the beta as we only have pub matches. On full release, these players will be split so there shouldn't have been a reason to alter weapon play to make things more even; as that is what match type will do in full release.

i have to agree w/ Telc, Mavado. As it currently stands, what you are asking for is to allow people of equal skill to be on equal footing running basic gear as proto gear.

lolwut?
if both players are equal skill then with how it is currently the guy with better gear has an advantage already
i never said everyone should be even yall just want the gap to be too big

why should only the rich corps be allowed to play FW?
why shouldnt a poorer corp that is alot more skillful be able to come into FW and **** rich EVE funded corps who might be terrible?

competitive clans wont take this game srsly if better gear wins u battles and skill takes a back seat.