Pages: 1 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
RaaR SG
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 08:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I only can play basically on Sunday, I work all week. It's bullshit that after a few games the SP drops, then drops some more, to the point where I'm getting about 40k/game with a booster.
I get how the whole diminishing returns is suppose to "even the playing field" or what not from people that grind all day and night. But who really cares. The current system is suppose to help players like me right? Well it isn't, it blows there is no point to play after a few games. especially when you're trying to get something in a mil+ SP range.
|
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 08:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
RaaR SG wrote:I only can play basically on Sunday, I work all week. It's bullshit that after a few games the SP drops, then drops some more, to the point where I'm getting about 40k/game with a booster.
I get how the whole diminishing returns is suppose to "even the playing field" or what not from people that grind all day and night. But who really cares. The current system is suppose to help players like me right? Well it isn't, it blows there is no point to play after a few games. especially when you're trying to get something in a mil+ SP range.
I have about the same amount of playtime thanks to working full-time and taking university courses at the same time. The diminishing returns are fine. You're also getting far more SP than you will in release. You get passive SP gain at all times, you make a good amount at first while actively playing, and it tapers down and is STILL great gains (40k is nothing to laugh at).
Quite simply, it's fine as-is, even for testing purposes. |
Hawk Von Draum
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 08:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they take out diminishing returns, I guarantee every weekend when you log back in you will get fewer and fewer kills until eventually you quit because your fed up. |
RaaR SG
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 08:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hawk Von Draum wrote:If they take out diminishing returns, I guarantee every weekend when you log back in you will get fewer and fewer kills until eventually you quit because your fed up.
pretty much every game I am most kills/best KD, doubt it
|
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
108
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 08:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
maybe the diminishing return should be lessened then instead of removed? |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
zekina zek wrote:maybe the diminishing return should be lessened then instead of removed? No. |
RaaR SG
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:zekina zek wrote:maybe the diminishing return should be lessened then instead of removed? No.
Yes.
|
fenrir storm
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's fine I don't have much time to test but I still want to remain fairly competative, remove DR and we will have no chance at all |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
RaaR SG wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:zekina zek wrote:maybe the diminishing return should be lessened then instead of removed? No. Yes. The gains are fine as-is. You're rewarded for playing more actively, but not so much so that you can pull a WoW-style one-week marathon and max everything out. This is behaving as intended. It's there to keep everyone relatively level, allowing new players to "catch up" (though this is a non-issue with proper specialization; the "whaa we can never compete with the vets" whinging in EVE is always hilarious due to the complete lack of understanding of how the skill system works), and prevent anyone from sprinting too far ahead.
The system works fine as-is. And guess what? You can use whatever you like to progress. If you think you need higher skills to effectively use something, go use something else you think you're more effective with to gain SP, and put those points into the other thing. This worked great in PlanetSide (have the newbies get into MAX units, to make it easy for them to learn and earn XP early on, put those points into other things that are harder to use until you've progressed further). This is also a major issue with BF and similar games, forcing you to use the gimped versions of something just to make them usable (flying aircraft in BF3 is a nightmare, since you have ZERO defenses until you level those vehicles up by getting kills using them; not fun when EVERYONE has heat-seekers, and you have no defense against them except to skim the ground in close proximity to obstacles, something that the guy first using the vehicle is not going to have the skill to do well).
There is no need or justification to change the diminishing returns. Pick a specialization and focus on it. The reason you feel like you need more SP is because you're trying to be a jack of all trades, and that simply doesn't work in a game like this. Pick a specialty, specialize, and once you're really good at that, then start branching out and worrying about versatility. This applies to Dust just as much as it does in EVE. |
Vetis Cato
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
250
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
the idea behind the deminishing returns on dust is to keep the sp gain in rough line with eve, so the game is taken nice and slow.
so people who play alot wont advance faster then those who dont have the time, as long as people play regular. so its the fps version of EVE. everyone gets sp at the same rate, as long as you regularly play.
playing matches isnt about getting a nice pat on the back and rewarded. its about conquering/defending that planet. |
|
Vetis Cato
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
250
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
RaaR SG wrote:Hawk Von Draum wrote:If they take out diminishing returns, I guarantee every weekend when you log back in you will get fewer and fewer kills until eventually you quit because your fed up. pretty much every game I am most kills/best KD, doubt it
what hawk means is with rapid sp gains people will advance to quick creating a disparity between those who play alot and those who only play in short bursts.
as good as im sure you are, if you only play at the weekend with out DR, you come across a guy whos got a couple million more sp because he plays constantly. your going down.
DR simply means as long as you log in regular, will keep you in line. |
RaaR SG
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:RaaR SG wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:zekina zek wrote:maybe the diminishing return should be lessened then instead of removed? No. Yes. The gains are fine as-is. You're rewarded for playing more actively, but not so much so that you can pull a WoW-style one-week marathon and max everything out. This is behaving as intended. It's there to keep everyone relatively level, allowing new players to "catch up" (though this is a non-issue with proper specialization; the "whaa we can never compete with the vets" whinging in EVE is always hilarious due to the complete lack of understanding of how the skill system works), and prevent anyone from sprinting too far ahead. The system works fine as-is. And guess what? You can use whatever you like to progress. If you think you need higher skills to effectively use something, go use something else you think you're more effective with to gain SP, and put those points into the other thing. This worked great in PlanetSide (have the newbies get into MAX units, to make it easy for them to learn and earn XP early on, put those points into other things that are harder to use until you've progressed further). This is also a major issue with BF and similar games, forcing you to use the gimped versions of something just to make them usable (flying aircraft in BF3 is a nightmare, since you have ZERO defenses until you level those vehicles up by getting kills using them; not fun when EVERYONE has heat-seekers, and you have no defense against them except to skim the ground in close proximity to obstacles, something that the guy first using the vehicle is not going to have the skill to do well). There is no need or justification to change the diminishing returns. Pick a specialization and focus on it. The reason you feel like you need more SP is because you're trying to be a jack of all trades, and that simply doesn't work in a game like this. Pick a specialty, specialize, and once you're really good at that, then start branching out and worrying about versatility. This applies to Dust just as much as it does in EVE.
Playing once a week to get diminished returns after a few games isn't going to keep me level compared to someone that logs in every day. While i'll never catch up to them, I shouldn't get held back because I want to play for half a day. This is my biggest turn off currently. The system doesn't make much sense. if anything they should do it by total SP and not games played that day
Flying in BF isn't a nightmare at all you start with flares, heatseekers aren't very good and you get them after a few kills
I feel like I need more SP because I want more SP. |
Hawk Von Draum
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 09:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
RaaR SG wrote:Hawk Von Draum wrote:If they take out diminishing returns, I guarantee every weekend when you log back in you will get fewer and fewer kills until eventually you quit because your fed up. pretty much every game I am most kills/best KD, doubt it
yeah i'm usually at the top too and i also don't get too much time to play and I still guarantee without diminishing returns we'd both be screwed |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 10:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
RaaR SG wrote:I feel like I need more SP because I want more SP. And there we have it in a nutshell. Of course you want more SP; who doesn't? But just wanting it isn't justification for getting it, not when it comes to progression. Why should you be rewarded for logging in once a month, when I play every day? It cuts both ways, here.
"I want it" is the greatest justification NOT to change anything. It's wanting that cool stuff later on that keeps people interested. If you can just unlock everything in a month or two, that puts a greater burden on the dev to keep adding more stuff for you to want. Just look at what WoW calls "expansions": they reskin a bunch of stuff, and add the same gear only with higher stats, increment the level cap, and then let you go back to doing the exact same thing you've always done, with stuff that isn't even remotely different or new, other than in skin, stats, and name. Is that what you want Dust to become? And endless reskinning and incrementing of stats, so that new players are completely screwed until years later? Because that's what that system results in; just go visit a level 10 area (that's where all the level capped people hang out).
EDIT: And at launch, BF3 did not start you with flares on aircraft. You had to unlock it. All you started with was a machine gun or dumbfire rockets (depending on the airframe). They may have changed it recently, I haven't played in a few months, but it most certainly did not start you with flares for the first 6 months or so after it launched. |
onlyelisha
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 11:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
It's fine as is, I'm actually surprised at how fast I was upgrading all the skills this build and I don't play that often on the weekends.
|
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 11:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
onlyelisha wrote:It's fine as is, I'm actually surprised at how fast I was upgrading all the skills this build and I don't play that often on the weekends.
It's because they still have the SP gain rates turned up, to encourage active participation in the beta, and to allow us to progress quickly enough to effectively test a variety of items. It will be slowed down significantly for release. |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 11:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think for everyday you don't play the "happy hour" should be extended - but only up to a point to prevent people from banking a character slot and power leveling it later on. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 11:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:I think for everyday you don't play the "happy hour" should be extended - but only up to a point to prevent people from banking a character slot and power leveling it later on. I could see this working somewhat as a possibility, provided the amount was something like 15 minutes for every 24 consecutive hours without logging in, up to 2 hours max. Would give you just about an extra 2 hours per week, if you're only playing one day on the weekend. I could see that being a fair compromise, while still enforcing the intent of the system.
To clarify, you even log in just to check your mail (you won't need to later, due to the API system) in Dust, it resets that 24 hour timer.
Like you, I don't want it being banked, I'm simply amenable to some small compromise to console those complaining, while not breaking a system that's perfectly fine as it already is. |
Baron Rittmeister
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 13:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
My problem with dr is that it hits me immediately. I'll get 150k sp on my first then 100, 80, 60, 50, then start getting around 30 to 40 for the rest of the night. That all happens within a span of four hours. I only ever get 100k+ sp on my first two matches. It's practically impossible to do after that.
It would be better if the dr was time based rather than game based. It should also be like a stacking penalty applied every hour until it caps off. I understand trying to create a level playing field, but how much are you willing to punish the player who invests the time to grind up by rewarding the player who plays one day a week. Is it fair for the one day a week player to have the same sp as the one who plays everyday?
I'm cool with dr, but it still needs to be fair to everyone, including the ones who do play all the time. If they play a lot then they earn a lot of sp, period. I just don't see how catering to casuals by gimping the vets can actually be considered fair. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Baron Rittmeister wrote:My problem with dr is that it hits me immediately. I'll get 150k sp on my first then 100, 80, 60, 50, then start getting around 30 to 40 for the rest of the night. That all happens within a span of four hours. I only ever get 100k+ sp on my first two matches. It's practically impossible to do after that.
It would be better if the dr was time based rather than game based. It should also be like a stacking penalty applied every hour until it caps off. I understand trying to create a level playing field, but how much are you willing to punish the player who invests the time to grind up by rewarding the player who plays one day a week. Is it fair for the one day a week player to have the same sp as the one who plays everyday?
I'm cool with dr, but it still needs to be fair to everyone, including the ones who do play all the time. If they play a lot then they earn a lot of sp, period. I just don't see how catering to casuals by gimping the vets can actually be considered fair. Personally, I'd be all for 100% passive training, like in EVE. Let the active players make (or lose) more money, and let all training happen normally. But CCP wanted to appease the whiny noobs that don't understand the skill system, and how they're not "forever gimped" against the vets.
Remember too, those numbers you're seeing now? They're going down by 50-75% on release. Progression is fine as it is, there's no need to change it. |
|
Drake-696
Doomheim
53
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
RaaR SG wrote:pretty much every game I am most kills/best KD, doubt it
Maybe that proves the point of why it is needed. If you play that much I wonder what your SP total is? Right now high SP wisely invested = killing machine. This game has a skill element to it, but it also has a skill point element to it. Combine a good player with a good character and you get a great player/character.
Not attempting to say you aren't a great player with 'mad skillz', just pointing out the likely logic and how you prove the point if you are top of your class and playing so much you see a drop in skill point gain.
Baron Rittmeister wrote:My problem with dr is that it hits me immediately. I'll get 150k sp on my first then 100, 80, 60, 50, then start getting around 30 to 40 for the rest of the night. That all happens within a span of four hours. I only ever get 100k+ sp on my first two matches. It's practically impossible to do after that.
It would be better if the dr was time based rather than game based. It should also be like a stacking penalty applied every hour until it caps off. I understand trying to create a level playing field, but how much are you willing to punish the player who invests the time to grind up by rewarding the player who plays one day a week. Is it fair for the one day a week player to have the same sp as the one who plays everyday?
I'm cool with dr, but it still needs to be fair to everyone, including the ones who do play all the time. If they play a lot then they earn a lot of sp, period. I just don't see how catering to casuals by gimping the vets can actually be considered fair.
Your example would equate to the guy who plays everyday ending up with more SP, even with the DR. Just saying. Even with DR the guy who plays all the time will get more SP because they are playing all the time. |
Baron Rittmeister
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 00:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
He does have more sp, as he should. My point is that it hurts everyone and detracts from the fun in the game, which is making your character better. Imagine without the 4x bonus we're getting now, you're talking about getting less than 10k a battle after diminishing returns. I know it's supposed to take a long time to level, but I think that will be very discouraging to players and they may just move on from boredom.
I just believe that a penalty of more than 50% is outright ridiculous. Gaining only a fraction of what you should is insulting to your performance and diminishes your effort, not your return. |
madd mudd
41
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 07:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
bumping, but may create a new similar thread similar to this one soon...
The timing mechanism only benefits those who can play anytime and regularly, not those who can't always play at the same time of day or can't play every day...
Or even say I'm on for 4 hours but only played 2-3 games rather than 5-6 or more games.
For example with full launch of this game CEO's and upper tier members of a corp may only get on too discuss things in game chat channels for "game politcs" rather than the purpose of playing which could take up a considerable amount of time... so punishing these players by only letting them get a small SP amount due to these things is a horrible idea... |
Liebfugue
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 11:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:I think for everyday you don't play the "happy hour" should be extended - but only up to a point to prevent people from banking a character slot and power leveling it later on.
This is similar to how exp gain is handled in WoW. If you log off (in an inn or city) you get rested experience, which lets you gain more experience points for a short time when you come back. This lets players who may not have the time to log on every day play a bit of catch up when they come back. The longer you are away the more the bar fills up until it hits its maximum. I think a similar system might work here.
This way people who can play every day can continue to get their skill points at the normal rate and those who can only play infrequently can play a bit of catch up when they get back. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 11:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think there was a topic on weekly DR's instead of daily. It was very well thought out but I forget the link, so...
Anyways, the theory was make the diminishing returns happen over a week, with say the first 3 days after you play high SP, then less and less each day after. The DR's would reset each Sunday at midnight or such. It made a lot of sense. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1594
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 11:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
The OP appears to have made up his mind and wants the diminished returns to be removed completely regardless of what anyone else feels or says. Therefore this thread is pointless. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1594
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 11:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Also, any requested changes that are intended to benefit the newbies will invariably benefit the veteran players. Sound familiar? |
Tyas Borg
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 12:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think they're fine tbh and I play a lot currently due to my current situation.
My main concern though is the fact that with so many invalid fittings and other crashing bugs, I very rarely see the top end returns.
In it's current state I'd like it to not be affected when you have to quit a game, crash or lockup. It's too painful to just have it taken away when there's nothing in your power to stop it. Especially to the guys who can't play too often. |
RedBleach
50
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 08:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
I would be better with it if I actually had a timer or some way of knowing when my SP was in a bonus state and how much of a bonus. Remember MAG? the first hour you played every 24 hours you had a 100% XP boost. Give me something to measure when I'm in the WINNING zone and when I drop out of it. I'll make a post about it.
Also, does the diminishing returns take me to a negative % at any time? or do I just go down to normal? |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 :: [one page] |