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Lorebot
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.07.05 18:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's no difference between 'cheap, disposable, one shot purchases' and a moderately expensive BPO.
Militia vehicles and vehicle fittings aren't an issue on the field, any player with a militia swarm launcher can kill them in a matter of seconds. It barely takes 2 shots from a militia swarm to kill a militia dropship, takes 1 to kill an LAV, takes about 2 clips to kill a militia HAV.
The fact that they're BPOs doesn't change the fact that militia gear is universally outclassed by anything that's not militia gear. Making them a permanent backup for training and emergency purposes doesn't change the game at all since having them be dirt cheap and needing to restock them mid-match would be a minor inconvenience, if any at all. |
Lorebot
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.07.05 19:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Lorebot wrote:There's no difference between 'cheap, disposable, one shot purchases' and a moderately expensive BPO. Yes. Yes there is. Buy a "moderately expensive BPO" and you have the vehicle whenever you want it. Forever. At no cost. In the short term, it's a small difference. In the long term, it's HUGE. A Militia vehicle BPO that costs significantly less than a single-use vehicle with better stats is just blatantly stupid. It's not as powerful, but if 5 players spend the same amount on Militia tanks and other gear as you spent on your Prototype Tank, you're still outnumbered and outgunned, and probably going to die.
And if those same 5 players just suit up with Militia Swarm launchers and work together to take you out you're still probably going to die.
In fact, if those 5 players get in Militia HAVs and try to gang up on you you're likely to win because they're larger targets that are going to go down fast when you start shooting them with your main gun. I've seen Mauraders swat the Militia HAVs like the annoying pests they are, and that's as it should be.
The Militia vehicles aren't just worse than the purchased vehicles because they've got less armor or shields, they have less CPU/PG too so they can't fit the good weapons or modules that a normal vehicle can.
Not to mention that having to go 5v1 against you means they're not off fighting for objectives, so strategically you're coming out ahead even if you lose your 500k isk tank and all they lose is a bunch of militia gear because it's given your team time to gain ground and probably take an objective or two. |
Lorebot
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aighun wrote:Lilianna Sentinel wrote:Okay, how do you expect someone to get the necessary practice driving tanks? Do you really expect them to pay 100k every time they need to learn a difficult lesson? Virtual training. They could pay 5,000 isk to take a tank driving lesson. Or the lessons could be free! once you train up one level of vehicle command or what ever it is called.
Because tutorials really provide that much information for the player...just ask anyone that's done the EVE tutorials and then tried to go do some pvp based solely on that knowledge.
I agree, there should be training courses or even full fledged tutorials on all aspects of the game, but knowing how to do something doesn't necessarily prepare you for actually doing it. Seriously, I've played close to a thousand hours of flight sims, does that qualify me to fly a real plane? No, it does not.
Being able to play with disposable vehicles will teach a player things that a tutorial could never do. |
Lorebot
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.07.05 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote: There should just be a fairly low price tag. So that the average player in a newbie suit would feel comfortable losing 2-3 militia vehicles in a match and not be hemorrhaging ISK.
This way new players get to find out if they like to be vehicle drivers or ground pounders better and can train accordingly.
If you never get to do it, or do it and lose tons of money from it, then you are less likely to train for those skills. Then you might miss out on a really good aspect of the gameplay experience.
I don't know about you, but the most I've ever made from a match so far is about 120k. Losses get significantly less than that, most losses I walk away with 50k or less. At those rates I can't even afford to replace my isk purchased dropsuits, weapons, and modules. How cheap do you want these militia vehicles to be? 1000isk each? 10k isk each? Currently they're 10k -50k for the militia bpos if you want to ride a custom militia vehicle, or you can use the pre-builts for free and not worry about customizing them at all.
Now if you want to remove the pre-built default vehicles that I'd agree with, I'd even advocate it. Getting vehicles for free is bad. But spending my isk on a militia vehicle bpo and then using that to see if I like it, or to be able to call it in when my team's in a pinch because I bothered to be the slightest bit prepared, that's another story. I'm going to be calling it in knowing there's next to no chance it's going to survive, that it may not even allow me to accomplish my goal if the other team glances in my direction. It's a paper tiger, a means for quick transportation, or some training, but it's not going to win battles on its own.
Heck, I've lost militia dropships to assault rifle fire and LAVs to grenades. They're no real threat on the battlefield to anyone that's got some skills or some isk purchased gear. Let them be bpos, it's not going to unbalance anything. |
Lorebot
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.07.05 23:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd agree with getting rid of the default vehicle fits that everyone gets when they release, but militia vehicles should still be available for purchase and use as BPOs along with all other militia gear for dropsuits and vehicles. |
Lorebot
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 06:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aighun wrote:CCP did say in a demo video when someone jumped out of a drop ship without leaving anyone to pilot it to safety that you would never want to do that "in game." As drop ships would be hard won assets and it woud hurt you to lose one just letting it crash and burn.
On the other hand it makes absolutely no sense to send a pilot/ driver into battle unless they know what they're doing. At least a little.
What if after going through the tutorial you could take a low level NPC contract, and the game could frame it so it was more like the NPC client was buying the mercs a set amount of gear to complete the mission. You would still be fighting other players, but there would be in game context to make it make sense that militia level players were being given some stuff to practice with.
CCP's comment about not wanting to let a ship crash and burn is more likely referring to the fact that in the future vehicles will need to be called in using War Points and the ability to call them in will be restricted by your team needing to earn the War Points to use the delivery service to drop a vehicle. The isk cost won't be as meaningful in that regard as will the WP cost since you'll want to use your WP as meaningfully as possible. You'll want to call in the strongest vehicles you can, and you won't want to waste WP on a vehicle you know isn't going to stand up to a fight because it's going to be a major target for the opposing team. Your Marauder or Dropship is going to take concentrated fire as soon as it's on the field because the opposing team is going to know you spent WP to get it and getting it off the field asap is going to hurt you more for the WP lost than it will for the isk loss.
As for vehicles and vehicle mods/turrets being available as BPOs. I don't have a problem with that at all. Considering how easily the Militia vehicles are destroyed and the fact that in the future they'll cost WP to call in, it may be a good way to train on a vehicle or even make use of cheap gear for a cheap contract. It will never be as effective or efficient to use a Militia vehicle over an isk purchased vehicle, and for that you need to invest skillpoints.
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