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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance
252
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Posted - 2015.09.07 22:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, despite 90% of the community here, coming here believing that this is gonna be some other guy crying about the game, sorry guys for the misleading title.
Now what is laughable, you might ask? Some many months ago, a lot of shield players (95% caldari I'm sure) had been asking for a buff to their suits, to their modules, and overall better gameplay balancing so that they can get in and cap objectives just like armor players can. These request threads were coming out the wood work's non-stop, until afterward's a lot of us just pretty much gave up, CCP never gave us ANY confirmation's, no reassurance's, literally about a month after, we decided to give up.
Now the CPM 2 is around and there hasn't been so much as ONE single thread about any shield buff requests, I find that, hilarious at best. We constantly asked, but nothing got done, now the CPM 2 has been chosen, and not a SINGLE thread on the dust forums have been seen regarding shield tech (albeit I'm sure that many of us decided to E-mail the CPM 2).
Now, by no mean's is this an actual complaint and take what you've read (so far) with a grain of salt, I've actually just started using, a basic mennon fit, with a gek and flaylock, with a bunch of armor mod's, and even I can say that, I've gotten 60% better scores with an armor fit, than I have with a shield fit, I mean I'm getting 200k isk per game, with a score of like 12 +/- 4, in terms of scores.
So, pretty much, I never thought I would, BUT I am praising everything Gallente being better than Caldari all round, I can kill players at 50+ meters no prob, even against RR 80% of the time I actually come out on top, the tanking is better, if I need hp I can just drop a compact hive, and get back to the fight quickly, honestly speaking, with an armor amount of 817, I just can't lose.
Only thing I ever die to? Mass driver, HMG, shotgun, and rarely but occasionally scouts with Nova knives, also scrambler rifles, and extremely rarely, any RR variant. I've killed RR user's more than they've killed me, and THEY had the opening in the gun fight, I essentially finished the gun fight.
End. (Once more, take what you've read with a grain of salt, this is just my experience's, both in-game, and forum wise, all compiled into 1 thread)
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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maybe deadcatz
the nomercs
678
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Posted - 2015.09.07 22:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Make complex extenders 9pg instead of 11pg and reduce the recharge delay on the cal assault to 3 seconds nondepleted and I'm good for great.
'Perhaps fate will bless us,before this world opens its maw and swallows us'-space pirate encrypted log.
They all died.
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
1
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Posted - 2015.09.07 22:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
how does this not count as crying about the game? CPM is part of the game they are players just as you and I are
click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Commando Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
@OP - Sounds about right .
Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance
253
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:how does this not count as crying about the game? CPM is part of the game they are players just as you and I are
Simple, I'm done trying to ask for improvements, simple as that, I've been very patient, and now my patience has run out, at this point, I'll take what i can get.
2nd: even if they are players, same as you and I, all these names that were chosen, none of them are part of the sniper commune, and none of them from what I can tell, use shield 24/7, like some other players.
3rdly: Given the past CPM, who actually managed to get something done AND what has happened since then? What have we seen in the past?
(To put simply, none of the CPM members actually relied upon shield as a means of tank, they used armor, same as the rest.).
And once again, it's not crying, cause, what's the point, since I'm probably some time in the future, just going to switch to armor anyway?
A lot of other player's have, and I've seen my score's, K/D and WP go up ever since I started using armor, so if shield's can't get me these same result's? What's the point of playing my favorite play style, over choosing one that's clearly successful to the me and my team?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Starlight Burner
Black Screen TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
487
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
I stopped bothering after that AScR buff.
CCP don't give a **** about shield users. The **** would I ask the CPM for? Nothing is going to get done about it.
I accepted the brutal hard truth.
Just time to move on.
CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation
Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today!
Thank you for DUST
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zDemoncake
Horizons' Edge No Context
1
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Posted - 2015.09.08 04:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Join the losing / lost faith club.
CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division
My soul, your beats!
Enemy to many; equal to none.
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
705
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hmmmm op tread against gal assaults and AR's ?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Darken-Sol
Darken's Forge and Trade
2
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:So, despite 90% of the community here, coming here believing that this is gonna be some other guy crying about the game, sorry guys for the misleading title.
Now what is laughable, you might ask? Some many months ago, a lot of shield players (95% caldari I'm sure) had been asking for a buff to their suits, to their modules, and overall better gameplay balancing so that they can get in and cap objectives just like armor players can. These request threads were coming out the wood work's non-stop, until afterward's a lot of us just pretty much gave up, CCP never gave us ANY confirmation's, no reassurance's, literally about a month after, we decided to give up.
Now the CPM 2 is around and there hasn't been so much as ONE single thread about any shield buff requests, I find that, hilarious at best. We constantly asked, but nothing got done, now the CPM 2 has been chosen, and not a SINGLE thread on the dust forums have been seen regarding shield tech (albeit I'm sure that many of us decided to E-mail the CPM 2).
Now, by no mean's is this an actual complaint and take what you've read (so far) with a grain of salt, I've actually just started using, a basic mennon fit, with a gek and flaylock, with a bunch of armor mod's, and even I can say that, I've gotten 60% better scores with an armor fit, than I have with a shield fit, I mean I'm getting 200k isk per game, with a score of like 12 +/- 4, in terms of scores.
So, pretty much, I never thought I would, BUT I am praising everything Gallente being better than Caldari all round, I can kill players at 50+ meters no prob, even against RR 80% of the time I actually come out on top, the tanking is better, if I need hp I can just drop a compact hive, and get back to the fight quickly, honestly speaking, with an armor amount of 817, I just can't lose.
Only thing I ever die to? Mass driver, HMG, shotgun, and rarely but occasionally scouts with Nova knives, also scrambler rifles, and extremely rarely, any RR variant. I've killed RR user's more than they've killed me, and THEY had the opening in the gun fight, I essentially finished the gun fight.
End. (Once more, take what you've read with a grain of salt, this is just my experience's, both in-game, and forum wise, all compiled into 1 thread)
Face it, no one cares about the caldari. For better or worse you seem to be on your own.
Crush them
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
https://trello.com/c/hXCkMe0b/532-shield-tanking-buff-armor-nerf |
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance
256
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Posted - 2015.09.09 06:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I can't read the trello board's here, I'll try it on my Ps3 later.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.09.09 07:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Until the devs confirm and announce a fix there's not much to say. Doesn't mean there's necessarily no discussion, nor traction.
But when there's something to announce on that front there's no point in, for example, me banging that gavel and rehashing everything I have hashed on the topic here.
If you want to see a push then get people to hunt up shield proposals, start liking and bumping and commenting. A half page of comments isn't a community push. A 40 page threadnaught of constructive posts on good proposals will probably get some attention.
Especially if it's not the same five players circlejerking 80-90% of the posts on the topic.
The more people who constructively endorse a fix, the more likely a proposal will be taken seriously. The more likely people will crunch numbers.
If you like my shield delay or new modules proposal? Get people to push it.
If pokey craps out shield genius? Help him push it by forming a support team.
If sicerly yaw coughs up the magic bullet then help make it happen.
I can point at a good idea and say "this is neat." I can point at a threadnaught with a hundred or more players in support?
I can in good conscience say "the community wants."
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.09 10:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
So OP, just to be clear, you aren't complaining?
My thoughts on shield tanking? Assuming it should be buffed (a little), I think it should be done in a way that maintains the design distinction from armour tanking, i.e. lower hp, higher regen, cover based. Here are some options.
Buffing base regen stats is bad, as it is too draconian. Suits are already sufficiently differentiated by base stats. We should have a reasonable amount of freedom to fit how we like. Also we need to encourage the fitting of shield regen mods to promote variety and discourage dual tanking or hp stacking. If base stats are too good there is no incentive to fit regen mods. The exception is commandos, who should have their shield regen stats buffed to sentinel levels.
Buffing regulators - Possibly a good idea. However, a delay is necessary as having to take cover to regen is central to the design of shield tanking. Currently it is possible to get very low shield delays by fitting complex regulators. I feel that mlt, std and adv regulators need a buff however.
Buffing extenders. I don't support this. Tanking style should be based upon which regen mods you fit. Stacking hp is a boring meta. Encouraging extender stacking works against the design of shield tanking as a high regen style. It also encourages dual tanking and reduces the efficiency of fitting damage mods, or other high slot modules.
Buffing energisers / rechargers. This would be a good option in my opinion. These are good modules to build a distinctly shield based tank. They have good synergy with extenders and regulators, so discourage dual tanking. They also compete in high slots with extenders and damage mods, so they discourage hp stacking, however they need to be a valuable module to be worthwhile. They also exemplify the design goals of shield tanking, providing high regen at the cost of hp stacking, but still requiring the user to find cover. I feel the current potential regen is not enough for the sacrifices you have to make compared to armour, especially the fact you have to take cover and wait to regen.
Another good option would be to nerf armour. I suggest reducing the hp of all plates (including reactive and ferroscale) by 10%. Hp stacking has been the dominant meta for pretty much all of dust. We are moving in the right direction, however hp is still king. Reducing the value of hp mods will in turn increase the value of other mods. Ofcourse, by reducing armour hp, shield tanking automatically becomes a more viable alternative. |
Michael-J-Fox Richards
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
451
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Posted - 2015.09.09 17:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
dude with every iteration of the cpm they become more useless than they already were, whats really going to change at this point
permanent fixture of the pantheon of dropship gods
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy No Context
935
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Posted - 2015.09.09 17:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote:dude with every iteration of the cpm they become more useless than they already were, whats really going to change at this point That's not really true though. This is only the third iteration of CPM, and they have not long been in the position. Give them time before passing unnecessary judgement.
Wanna play eve?
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.09 18:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote:dude with every iteration of the cpm they become more useless than they already were, whats really going to change at this point That's not really true though. This is only the third iteration of CPM, and they have not long been in the position. Give them time before passing unnecessary judgement.
Didn't you know? We're supposed to cure everything wrong in DUST in the first month or we aren't doing our jobs!
Superhuman miracles are a job requirement!
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy No Context
936
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Posted - 2015.09.09 19:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote:dude with every iteration of the cpm they become more useless than they already were, whats really going to change at this point That's not really true though. This is only the third iteration of CPM, and they have not long been in the position. Give them time before passing unnecessary judgement. Didn't you know? We're supposed to cure everything wrong in DUST in the first month or we aren't doing our jobs! Superhuman miracles are a job requirement! Ah, I knew I was forgetting something.
Wanna play eve?
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Tebu Gan
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.09.09 19:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Shield suit stuff
Yeah, I basically run armor and damage mods on my suits with a single myo nowadays. Carry rep hives as well, MUCH better way to play a shield suit.
Some may argue this fact, but 9/10, they will be beat out by this fit. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance
257
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:So OP, just to be clear, you aren't complaining?
My thoughts on shield tanking? Assuming it should be buffed (a little), I think it should be done in a way that maintains the design distinction from armour tanking, i.e. lower hp, higher regen, cover based. Here are some options.
Buffing base regen stats is bad, as it is too draconian. Suits are already sufficiently differentiated by base stats. We should have a reasonable amount of freedom to fit how we like. Also we need to encourage the fitting of shield regen mods to promote variety and discourage dual tanking or hp stacking. If base stats are too good there is no incentive to fit regen mods. The exception is commandos, who should have their shield regen stats buffed to sentinel levels.
Buffing regulators - Possibly a good idea. However, a delay is necessary as having to take cover to regen is central to the design of shield tanking. Currently it is possible to get very low shield delays by fitting complex regulators. I feel that mlt, std and adv regulators need a buff however.
Buffing extenders. I don't support this. Tanking style should be based upon which regen mods you fit. Stacking hp is a boring meta. Encouraging extender stacking works against the design of shield tanking as a high regen style. It also encourages dual tanking and reduces the efficiency of fitting damage mods, or other high slot modules.
Buffing energisers / rechargers. This would be a good option in my opinion. These are good modules to build a distinctly shield based tank. They have good synergy with extenders and regulators, so discourage dual tanking. They also compete in high slots with extenders and damage mods, so they discourage hp stacking, however they need to be a valuable module to be worthwhile. They also exemplify the design goals of shield tanking, providing high regen at the cost of hp stacking, but still requiring the user to find cover. I feel the current potential regen is not enough for the sacrifices you have to make compared to armour, especially the fact you have to take cover and wait to regen.
Another good (alternative) option would be to nerf armour. I suggest reducing the hp of all plates (including reactive and ferroscale) by 10%. Hp stacking has been the dominant meta for pretty much all of dust. We are moving in the right direction, however hp is still king. Reducing the value of hp mods will in turn increase the value of other mods. Ofcourse, by reducing armour hp, shield tanking automatically becomes a more viable alternative.
Yeah, pretty much, I mean, honestly, I've made my reasonable balance pass on caldari, since every other race has a decent and powerful niche, Gallente has ever so effective armor capabilities, Amarr has weapon efficiency, minmatar has ewar, really when you look at it, the iteration of Caldari despite being OP back then, was much more a formidable opponent, could cap objectives efficiently and confidently.
My rebalance of cal assault would be -
Shield:400 Shield Regen:30 Shield Delay:3 Depleted Delay:5 Armor:120
Rebalance of caldari medium
Shield: 300 Shield Regen:20 Shield Delay: 4 Depleted Delay:6 Armor:120
Heavy Cal/Commando
Shield:550 Shield Regen:30 Shield Delay:3 Depleted Delay:4 Armor: 200
Caldari Sentinel
Shield: 700 Shield Regen: 40 Shield Delay: 2 Depleted Delay: 3 Armor:250
-END-
That seem's reasonable to me, if you have too much armor, which the armor plate's already give enough for you to go 500+ armor on caldari, that'll facilitate dual tanking, taking armor off the suit, reduces the possibilities of dual tanking.
Now by no mean's this alone will actually SAVE the caldari, no, that'll have to be a completely different rebalance, like reducing shield rechargeaount and re-implementing the constant shield recharge, forcing shield player's to using an energizer or two.
(only reason why I propose constant shield recharge is cause, without it, shield still wouldn't be formidable and people would only cry about it later on)
Oh and also to me, the scout/light caldari is pretty much fine, being able to get 400 shield is perfect to me.
Var, I really did mean it when I said I wasn't complaining, I'm just trying to enjoy the game more at this point, so balancing passes are pretty much behind me, If I can't have fun with a game, I may as well drop it right? I picked up armor tanking because, it's just versatile, armor is so versatile in this game, being able to do even what shield's can do with better efficiency, and I'm enjoying it.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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