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Louis Domi
Tugastroy Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make regular swarms not require lock ons, but require they track the vehicle they are aiming at manually. Make a variant of swarms that work just as the ones now, but with either reduced damage or reduced speed. Just a suggestion for your point and win weapon |
No-one-ganks like-Gaston
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
306
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Posted - 2015.07.17 18:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
If lock-ons are taken away from Swarms and have to be tracked manually, I'd say they should get a slight increase to speed and damage in return. Yeah, current swarms are basically a point and click adventure, but taking away the lock on and forcing a Swarmer to focus on their target means they can't swap out weapons, can't even look to see who's shooting at them or from what angle, and will always miss the shot if the target goes behind cover before the missiles connect. It's a lot of extra risk added to the weapon. Forge gun and Plasma cannon are both fire away and hope you hit. Current Swarms are just fire away. Your suggested Swarms are fire and intent focus. It very much would become a skill and dedication weapon at that point, and would need to be buffed, accordingly.
I don't play with swarms or vehicles so I can't really voice my opinion about their current damage and speed. They can be pretty hard to dodge, but usually going around cover or just over a hill is enough to make their tracking go stupid and blow themselves up. Obviously there isn't always cover or a hill to take advantage of, but, just like with forge guns and plasma cannons, if you're out in the open that's the risk you're taking. It's entirely possible they could stand some balancing. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.07.17 18:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
No sir, they would NOT need to be buffed. At all.
Swarms do more DPS to shields than forge guns do to armor. By almost double.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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No-one-ganks like-Gaston
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
307
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Posted - 2015.07.17 19:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:No sir, they would NOT need to be buffed. At all.
Swarms do more DPS to shields than forge guns do to armor. By almost double. I said only if the lock-on were taken away and the Swarmer were forced to manually track their target the entire time their missiles were air-borne, and only because of the massively increased risk the Swarmer would take on in order to keep on target in that case because of inability to swap out weapons or even look to see who was shooting or where if they intended to keep the vehicle at bay. And I said only slight.
I also said I don't use Swarms or vehicles, though, so if you've got more experience with them and can definitively say, no, a buff would be bad even in that case, then I don't have much choice but to concede. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.07.17 20:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Conceding isn't my objective. Education is.
There are some inherent problems with swarms that seem to be irreconcilable on the ps3. They are one of the weapons that sit on the razor's edge. One change here can make them insanely OP. But a tweak to THAT variable could render it utterly UP.
What I do agree with is the idea of "hold the lock" for many myriad reasons.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
11
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Posted - 2015.07.17 22:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Blaster Maddies are OP. Let's fix 'em before dismantling one of their supposed counters.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood RUST415
789
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Posted - 2015.07.17 23:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Make the person using them invulnerable to damage while they track and you've got a deal. There's already skill needed to use swarms. It's called "not dying before the missiles launch" and "getting off more than two volleys before the cowardly vehicle runs back to the redline". |
Louis Domi
Tugastroy Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.07.17 23:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Make the person using them invulnerable to damage while they track and you've got a deal. There's already skill needed to use swarms. It's called "not dying before the missiles launch" and "getting off more than two volleys before the cowardly vehicle runs back to the redline".
Cowardly? 3 of them volleys are enough to take me down, and with no way of avoiding them other than running away... not dying before the missiles launch? Doesn't it take like a second to launch them? and even less time for the second and third launches? If you in a crowd of reds then I know for a fact you're not even gonna use it, that would be stupid as hell. Also being invulnerable to damage while tracking would be too much of a pro... I could see dirty dusters getting hit in all directions and just switch to swarms and just get out of the situation... swarms taking skills, HA. Get out of here with that ****. |
Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
i suggested laser guided swarms months ago, nice to see people are coming around. espeically an assault variant against tanks or maybe a slower torpedo variant and add in velocity and flight time mechanics like eve has.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
11
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Posted - 2015.07.18 13:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Make the person using them invulnerable to damage while they track and you've got a deal. There's already skill needed to use swarms. It's called "not dying before the missiles launch" and "getting off more than two volleys before the cowardly vehicle runs back to the redline".
I've run swarms for years and years. Recently picked up my first Forge Gun. Finding that more thought, planning, and skill areneeded to Swarm than Forge Gun. Releasing a volley is only a small part of an otherwise involved process, and it's pretty tough to actually get 3 volleys off before (A) dying or (B) your target escaping lock-on range.
If swarm guidance is going to be retooled, their projectiles should be made substantially more powerful. A chaff system for dropships would almost certainly need to follow.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
696
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Posted - 2015.07.18 19:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
What if missiles were launched as dumbfire, but each missile already in the air would change direction to the current missile's target? This would make swarmer a very agility-based build, where you run around to get good angles to direct your missiles to.
This would require very slow missiles and maybe a higher rate of fire or larger magazine. Also, possibly single-fire, especially as filling the air with missiles would most likely slow the system down. So four missiles per volley would be overkill in terms of performance.
Bonus points because it would make swarmers a trick shot weapon against infantry. But it might be a bit too Danmaku for this game. |
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
859
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Posted - 2015.07.18 20:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
I totally support the idea of tying skill into swarms, but its worth noting that maintaining line of sight will get the AVer melted pretty quick, so reducing lock time and increasing flight speed should be considered.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
140
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Posted - 2015.07.19 02:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Louis Domi wrote:Make regular swarms not require lock ons, but require they track the vehicle they are aiming at manually. Make a variant of swarms that work just as the ones now, but with either reduced damage or reduced speed. Just a suggestion for your point and win weapon What if you made swarms behave similar to a flight simulator?
They are fast and still lock on, but a hard bank can outmaneuver them.
bandwidth lol
And totally not p2w haha
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy No Context
663
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Posted - 2015.07.19 03:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Z3dog wrote:Louis Domi wrote:Make regular swarms not require lock ons, but require they track the vehicle they are aiming at manually. Make a variant of swarms that work just as the ones now, but with either reduced damage or reduced speed. Just a suggestion for your point and win weapon What if you made swarms behave similar to a flight simulator? They are fast and still lock on, but a hard bank can outmaneuver them.
that is already possible although you cant just bank and be safe you still have to fall back to avoid their flight distance
bank hard in the direction of your escape using your momentum to gain speed and lose the volley it is very risky as drop ships tend to fall at a very fast rate but this also allows you to easily outrun swarms even without an afterburner
click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
152
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Posted - 2015.07.19 03:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Z3dog wrote:Louis Domi wrote:Make regular swarms not require lock ons, but require they track the vehicle they are aiming at manually. Make a variant of swarms that work just as the ones now, but with either reduced damage or reduced speed. Just a suggestion for your point and win weapon What if you made swarms behave similar to a flight simulator? They are fast and still lock on, but a hard bank can outmaneuver them. that is already possible although you cant just bank and be safe you still have to fall back to avoid their flight distance bank hard in the direction of your escape using your momentum to gain speed and lose the volley it is very risky as drop ships tend to fall at a very fast rate but this also allows you to easily outrun swarms even without an afterburner If it where to be implemented. Balance would be ideally based off how hard the missiles can bank. Along with damage and lock on times maybe.
bandwidth lol
And totally not p2w haha
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.07.19 05:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Conceding isn't my objective. Education is.
There are some inherent problems with swarms that seem to be irreconcilable on the ps3. They are one of the weapons that sit on the razor's edge. One change here can make them insanely OP. But a tweak to THAT variable could render it utterly UP.
What I do agree with is the idea of "hold the lock" for many myriad reasons.
things that go wrong while "holding lock"
1. get sniped
2. get shotgunned
3. get killed by tank your trying to kill because you have to maintain line of sight with it.
4. get killed by everyone actually while trying to maintain lock.
forge gun and plasma cannons at least let you pop in and out of cover in order to stay alive. who would use a weapon that demanded you leave yourself completely exposed?
the weapon also suffers delayed damage, and is ineffective on infantry. Thats alot to deal with for a weapon that only deals damage to vehicles.
if the swarms could be used against infantry, then maybe people would use them. but i hear dumb fire swarms were OP in beta. and guided swarms probably wouldnt be much better, especially when used by jumpy fits.
of course though... the caldari in me would love a missile weapon that was anti infantry as well as aniti vehicle lol |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
11
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Posted - 2015.07.19 06:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Conceding isn't my objective. Education is.
There are some inherent problems with swarms that seem to be irreconcilable on the ps3. They are one of the weapons that sit on the razor's edge. One change here can make them insanely OP. But a tweak to THAT variable could render it utterly UP.
What I do agree with is the idea of "hold the lock" for many myriad reasons. things that go wrong while "holding lock" 1. get sniped 2. get shotgunned 3. get killed by tank your trying to kill because you have to maintain line of sight with it. 4. get killed by everyone actually while trying to maintain lock.
forge gun and plasma cannons at least let you pop in and out of cover in order to stay alive. who would use a weapon that demanded you leave yourself completely exposed? the weapon also suffers delayed damage, and is ineffective on infantry. Thats alot to deal with for a weapon that only deals damage to vehicles. if the swarms could be used against infantry, then maybe people would use them. but i hear dumb fire swarms were OP in beta. and guided swarms probably wouldnt be much better, especially when used by jumpy fits.
of course though... the caldari in me would love a missile weapon that was anti infantry as well as aniti vehicle lol
Inclined to agree with Deathwind. Lots more goes into swarming than "fire and forget".
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.07.20 07:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
You speak like I've never used a swarm launcher before.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.07.20 13:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Best Swarm change, in my opinion.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.07.20 23:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
There's been sometimes the same idea, in this thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2671962#post2671962
Excerpt:
[IDEA 1: DUMBFIRED BUT HOMING IN] * Missile(s) leave dumb fired and fly straight line, maybe slowish. * When targeting box is used to 'paint' target, all missiles in air wake up and home in on target. Maybe getting a big speed buff. * Missile flight times would be adjusted respectively a lot up. * Whether initial lock-on would be required has to be thought over, and the process of box-painting targets * Whether terrain blocks box-painting or not has to be thought over. Probably yes BUT as long as you get to see red vehicle marker, thru scans of squadmate spotting, probabaly that would be enough. "+" for teamwork.
Results: Swarms no longer fire-and-forget. would be possible to fire several rounds up on sky at different angles, and try to make swarms hit the target both from up ignoring cover and maybe, maybe, even get your own swarms to do a volley of near simultaneous hits! A lot of three-dimensional thinking would be required.
A bit like half life rocket launcher, video1, video2. Remember, that's a different game still
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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