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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5745
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Posted - 2015.01.14 17:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love you man
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5745
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Posted - 2015.01.14 17:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
I guess my biggest concern though, when do the battles occur?
Do we still have to wait 24 hours? Or are we talking go time during these windows?
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5746
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Posted - 2015.01.14 18:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I guess my biggest concern though, when do the battles occur?
Do we still have to wait 24 hours? Or are we talking go time during these windows? I've actually be latching onto the idea that it's still a 24 hour wait time, but the entire conquest happens at once. So If the attacker has 3 MCCs they're going to use for the attack, you wait 24 hours, the battle starts, and then you fight as many battles as it takes for one side to run out of MCCs. So yeah its a 1 day wait still but the conquest of a district happens in 1 day (potentially) instead of over the course of multiple days like it used to.
What is the concern for the 24 hour advance notice? I understand it, but given that we only have 16 v 16 I think this advance notice gives too much time to call in ringers.
I don't believe it creates a situation where corporations have to be prepared to field multiple teams and fight their battles. To me if you have multiple MCCs hitting a target in 24 hours it just means the all star team has more stuff to kill when the time comes.
Maybe I'm just hung up on this to the point I'm unable to see the big picture. I really am just hoping that we have a system that allows for 1000s of players to participate instead of dozens when the incentives are added.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5746
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Posted - 2015.01.14 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Imagine the moral if Corp A sends 4 MCCs to attack Corp B and it ends up being the best team Team Players ever fielded.
I think after the second battle you'd have people in Corp A telling their FC to go F himself.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 18:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I guess my biggest concern though, when do the battles occur?
Do we still have to wait 24 hours? Or are we talking go time during these windows? I've actually be latching onto the idea that it's still a 24 hour wait time, but the entire conquest happens at once. So If the attacker has 3 MCCs they're going to use for the attack, you wait 24 hours, the battle starts, and then you fight as many battles as it takes for one side to run out of MCCs. So yeah its a 1 day wait still but the conquest of a district happens in 1 day (potentially) instead of over the course of multiple days like it used to. What is the concern for the 24 hour advance notice? I understand it, but given that we only have 16 v 16 I think this advance notice gives too much time to call in ringers. I don't believe it creates a situation where corporations have to be prepared to field multiple teams and fight their battles. To me if you have multiple MCCs hitting a target in 24 hours it just means the all star team has more stuff to kill when the time comes. Maybe I'm just hung up on this to the point I'm unable to see the big picture. I really am just hoping that we have a system that allows for 1000s of players to participate instead of dozens when the incentives are added. Well heres kinda how I see it. If a corporation wants to hold a a single district, it needs 16 PC-qualified people to fight the battles. If there isn't advanced notice, those same 16 guys have to be online, ready to go, every single day. That becomes a chore, and isn't really fun. So even if you have say 8 alternates, that's 24 guys needed to hold 1 district and have it remain "fun". Now if you want to hold 2? The number of required people quickly goes a little insane. I mean attackers are setting the effective time of attack, so they're going to be prepped to launch the best guys they have at you. I think it may be a little unreasonable to expect every corp that wants to defend a district to have their A team on every single day. If battles were like....6 guys? Sure, I could see very short notice. But with 16, you simply gotta have some sort of warning period. I do get what you're saying though, and it's a tricky problem to solve for that particular aspect of battle generation and I honestly don't have a perfect solution for you. This thread was more about getting away from the aweful notion of fixed timers, which unfortunately also fails to solve the issue you've brought up.
I just like to hear that it's something they could make available. Where it's something they can adjust.
I've just been involved in PC long enough to know that without some kind of ability for a PRO or Faction Warfare Army type zerg that those corporations won't have the patience to stick with it. Realistically they aren't going to be able to generate the level of competence required before they throw up their hands.
Even if once they have a district it's hard for them to hold those districts. But they would just keep zerging. They could zerg to a point they are gaining 5 districts a day and losing 3 until they reach their capacity of team creation.
Even if these guys are losing a majority of their battles they have some sense of accomplishment. I also believe that the number of players that would have to be involved in what I'm talking about would lead to a huge influx of capable players. As anyone knows there is discipline that's necessary for PC. Once they got down the opening tactics of priority vehicles and squad composition there would be marked improvement.
The only corps that would stay so small that this would be a worry would be the small elite groups. The ones that have been able to logistically and tactically dominate PC with few players. A byproduct of what I'm talking about would be more capable players for them to recruit and build their teams in the quality over quantity model.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 18:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:To clarify Thor, I'd like to see where this Raiding mechanics branches out. I think raids, while incapable of flipping a district, should happen on the fly during your open window with very little notice. That being said if you neglect your district and have a huge attack window, expect to be continually pounded by everyone multiple times a day. They wont take your district, but they'll steal all of your profits.
I think lower risk battles like this can happen on the fly and don't require much notice, also allows for less experienced players to get a taste of PC without putting a corporation's districts on the line for the sake of training. It also allows for large zerg corps to be a real pain in the ass if they want to.
If this becomes a thing, I wouldn't be concerned.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 20:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Ideas and things This is a decent idea. It allows smaller corps to participate cleanly. The system might end up hitting some level of over-complication bar though, fair warning. Our existing system, mind you, is also often too hard to understand. Thor Odinson42 wrote:What is the concern for the 24 hour advance notice? Um... are you kidding me? People need to know to be online, so they don't have to no life the game to participate. Molon Labe's ever-present crowd appears again. o_o And yes, calling in ringers is gameplay.
Are you just stupid or just trying to troll me? Serious question.
Giving people 24 hours notice when the stakes are high (ISK flows) has proven time and time again to cause 16 v 16 fights between the best ringers money could buy. In other words it has caused FEWER people to be involved in PC. Fewer corps and fewer players.
Do you deny this? Simply put, are you too much of a troll to acknowledge the history of PC that we've seen up to this point?
Next question, if you can take a minute to stop being a prick. Without some sort of surprise element how do you see corporations working in players from outside the 20 or so that normally participate in PC for their corp? They'll just start doing it despite having their best 16 available?
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 20:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Lets not turn this thread into bickering about 24 hour notice ^_^ It's really not what the thread is about.
It's hard not to. It's a thread about timers that finally gets close to addressing the number 1A (1B being no way to team deploy for training) issue that led to PC being played by a small tiny little fraction of the playerbase.
I'm not going to continue to beat the dead horse. But I will say that nothing will change if it's a bunch of shiny new features but it's still show up in 24-48 hours and fight the best ringers that you can hire. I don't see anything that changes that being proposed.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 21:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:If there isn't a 24 hour timer, then there's no game. It's absolutely critical to ensuring actual fights happen. If you don't understand it by now, nobody will be able to successfully explain it to you.
So you think dudes showing up with 4 MCCs and figure out they are going to get redlined by OH over and over instead of fighting Randum Gunz (the corp attacked) 4 times will result in actual fights?
Again you fail to answer my questions.
You act like 30 dudes out of the academy are going to form a corp and go venture into PC, but the only thing that would prevent their success is that they don't have 16 dudes online at the same time each day.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 21:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Lets not turn this thread into bickering about 24 hour notice ^_^ It's really not what the thread is about. It's hard not to. It's a thread about timers that finally gets close to addressing the number 1A (1B being no way to team deploy for training) issue that led to PC being played by a small tiny little fraction of the playerbase. I'm not going to continue to beat the dead horse. But I will say that nothing will change if it's a bunch of shiny new features but it's still show up in 24-48 hours and fight the best ringers that you can hire. I don't see anything that changes that being proposed. I don't particularly have an issue with hiring people to assist you, contract/mercenary work is not all that uncommon in New Eden. The reason ringers became so prevelent before was because the ISK faucet produced so much money, that those who held the land were able to hire out 100% of the time if they wanted. However with a raiding system in place, assuming its not exploitable, you will have to defend your district's resources on the fly. I think that much is reasonable since at worst you don't have enough people on and you get stomped in a raid, you only lose out on profitability for the day. However I think for district capture you need to be able to have time to ready and field the best team you possibly can since it's for the biggest prize, ownership of the district. So for raids? Force people to be on during your Attack Window, but you don't always need your best players. But for District Capture? Give people the time to get their best people in on the job.
But you are putting a lot of hope in something that hasn't bet brought forward yet.
And I'm not sure the raiding is being considered as a mechanic to ensure that small elite corps can't dominate the landscape. Somehow that seems to be lost on people.
Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
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