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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5146
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Posted - 2014.11.22 13:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here's the issue:
-Equipment spam is bad
-Bandwidth solves the "use multiple loadouts with every variant" equipment spam issue
-Bandwidth punishes logistics under OUR CURRENT EQUIPMENT DESIGN
So how do we make everyone happy? REDESIGN EQUIPMENT
Proposal:
"Deployables Reimagined: More utility, less spam"
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_ytb13XWe3th0KUWFdNJD5NS_0Pqv5U8acUmhPxh6Ss/edit#gid=757389990
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Guys, this is not that difficult to understand how this is a WIN-WIN-WIN solution here. If you think this will encourage MORE spam, or think it will make things worse, YOU CLEARLY DO NOT GET HOW AWESOME AN IDEA THIS IS. Let me cover what this proposal does quickly in case you didn't look at the spreadsheet or didn't understand it.
1. INCREASES amount of equipment carried in reserve, REDUCES amount of spawns/nanites per dropped equipment, KEEPS the same restrictions on how many can be active at a time, KEEPS total amount of spawns/nanites the same.
Proto Nanohives
Current: 2 MAX ACTIVE, 3 carried, 48 clusters per, 144 clusters total
Proposal: 2 MAX ACTIVE, 6 carried, 24 clusters per, 144 clusters total
Proto Uplinks
Current: 2 MAX ACTIVE, 3 carried, 20 spawns per, 60 spawns total
Proposal: 2 MAX ACTIVE, 12 carried, 5 spawns per, 60 spawns total
2. ALLOWS Logistics to use their equipment more, and have more flexibility for equipment placement
-Have you ever dropped a nanohive for a group of players only for them to walk away and never use it again? Then when your team actually needs ammo you feel like you shouldn't have wasted that first drop?
-Have you ever dropped a uplink only for it to be fluxed or destroyed by an explosion a second later?
-Have you ever felt like your equipment slot is wasted after you have already dropped 3 uplinks?
This proposal solves all of these problems and a **** ton more.
3. PUNISHES the "set and forget" equipment spam playstyle.
No longer will players be able to have their nest of equipment sit inside of a base the entire match without ever being used up
Currently: I'm gonna drop 5 uplinks on the roof at the beginning of the match so that all the blue dots spawn way up here the entire time like idiots, and they will never be destroyed because it gives us 100 TOTAL SPAWNS
Proposal: If I drop 4 uplinks in this bunker we will be able to spawn here 20 times to give us a short-term advantage, but I have to keep the uplinks on my suit to ACTIVELY keep allowing us to spawn down here... OR I can drop two at a time in key locations around the map as our team pushes towards those objectives.
_______________________________________________________________________________
TLDR:
Proposal:
-Amount of carried equipment increased while effectiveness per equipment (nanites/spawns) is decreased.
-Amount of equipment able to be ACTIVE at one time is not changed
-Amount of total nanites/spawns with all equipment is not changed
The awesome things it does for us:
-Equipment will last only as long as the logistics player keeps dropping it rather than the current "set and forget" spam
-Nanohives and uplinks will be more abundant but will not always stay in the same place
-Better quality matches from equipment not sitting in one area for a whole match
-Logistics can stay active throughout the match no matter what equipment they choose to equip
-STEALTH BUFF TO CALDARI LOGISTICS (longer lasting hives ftw)
_______________________________________________________________________________
STLDR:
If you want to play logistics, then you have to ACTIVELY play logistics.
Equipment bandwidth will not even matter to logistics because with this proposal their equipment will be used up quickly anyways if they decide to swap to a different suit because they stopped ACTIVELY playing their role.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4682
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Posted - 2014.11.22 18:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
So, one, I'm obviously cool with BW and agree that there is a serious lack of vision on the part of those who oppose it from our (the logi's) side.
But I think your proposal, while excellent for nanohives, is less desirable for uplinks. I'd like to see them switched to something inbetween what you propose and the current stats. Or at least there be variants that are like that.
Only having 5 available spawns is not that useful for a rear-guard, fallback kinda point as I usually place near the start of the battle to prevent a quick redline.
Naturally I think you would also need to consider reducing the BW value of each peice from 4 to 2 since each one would have less functionality per. Or increase total BW, whatever.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3495
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:
Proto Uplinks
Current: 2 MAX ACTIVE, 3 carried, 20 spawns per, 60 spawns total
Proposal: 2 MAX ACTIVE, 12 carried, 5 spawns per, 60 spawns total
Please no the problem with this is that links are going to pop like especially in PC where the most deaths occur which in turn means more people have to spawn back in. With all these links constantly what you'll see is every Assault/Logistics/Scout stack their equips with uplinks and nothing but uplinks. This is because guess what you dropped a link on enemy HP your squad shifted out of the city and spawned on it and it's already gone. I wouldn't be against having a variant that worked like this but I still think to deter spam they should have fast spawn times, high hp, low profile, and a limit on number of uplinks per person after you place your 4th or 5th link the ones regardless of type start popping.
Fatal Absolution Director
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Varoth Drac
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
397
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like the idea. If you can spawn 5 people in you can spawn your whole squad on the link, I don't see a problem. |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4846
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
This was pretty much the CPM's idea to fix equip spam in a nutshell.
I was down to have just one type of link that had a lot of spawns...so it'd serve as a fallback link...but it was the longest spawn time.
But yeah...AFAIK ours were like 20 carried. 2 active and like 3-4 spawns.
Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Strive. No mattter what
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VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
231
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Or:
If you switch suit, your equipment disappears.
Because CCP like things simple. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2342
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Posted - 2014.11.23 18:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
+1 Shayz. One thing i'd like to see complementing your plan is a Logi efficacy bonus that increased(moderately) the longevity(i.e. nanites/spawns) of deployed equipment.
Nothing crazy, just enough so that an old dog logi who was fully skilled up wouldn't have to spend quite so much time running around maintaining equipment as the young guys would.
Also, it makes equipment maintenance on non-Logi suits less efficient - still doable, but the Logis would have the obvious advantage.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
38
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Posted - 2014.11.24 13:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1
This has a lot to like, in my book. 
I am a big fan of reducing lifespan of uplinks and hives, and increasing number carried as a way to discourage suit-swapping. Sure that speedy scout can run ahead and drop a strategic uplink and then swap to his native heavy. But he won't be able to keep getting points throughout the game for it because they will be expended quickly, and therefore he is not motivated to spam. The spawn counts for uplinks look good to me.
Two sincere questions. I am sure I have missed something in all the threads:
1) Why does this proposal need to be tied with bandwidth? What am I missing? Won't this by itself (using the current "max active" mechanic) resolve much of the spamming issue?
2) Why the increase in isk cost for uplinks and hives? This would seem to punish the persistent Logi who is more likely to die in a Logi fitting than the tourist Logi who plans to quickly swap out at a supply depot.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
5069
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:So, one, I'm obviously cool with BW and agree that there is a serious lack of vision on the part of those who oppose it from our (the logi's) side.
But I think your proposal, while excellent for nanohives, is less desirable for uplinks. I'd like to see them switched to something inbetween what you propose and the current stats. Or at least there be variants that are like that.
Only having 5 available spawns is not that useful for a rear-guard, fallback kinda point as I usually place near the start of the battle to prevent a quick redline.
Naturally I think you would also need to consider reducing the BW value of each peice from 4 to 2 since each one would have less functionality per. Or increase total BW, whatever.
I agree with John, although I think the Uplink stats listed would make a very useful Uplink variant. An uplink that you can carry a lot of, but only have two active and only 5 spawns per uplink would be a very good Uplink for keeping the squad together. When someone dies, you drop an uplink to let them quickly re-join the squad. But as John says, these uplinks would not be good for fall-back positions.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5171
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dubya Guy wrote:+1
Two sincere questions. I am sure I have missed something in all the threads:
1) Why does this proposal need to be tied with bandwidth? What am I missing? Won't this by itself (using the current "max active" mechanic) resolve much of the spamming issue?
2) Why the increase in isk cost for uplinks and hives? This would seem to punish the persistent Logi who is more likely to die in a Logi fitting than the tourist Logi who plans to quickly swap out at a supply depot.
1. It is tied with bandwidth because players will still spam 20 uplinks in a room or on a roof by using multiple fits, even if their uplinks pop much faster.
BECAUSE uplinks pop faster, bandwidth won't be much of an issue for logistics. The main problem with bandwidth for logistics is that they can't place fallback uplinks without them popping from normal equipment use. By making the uplink spawn count so low, you make it so that uplinks must be continuously placed instead of just being set up quickly then letting the logistics player do whatever they want...including swapping suits.
2. Isk cost proposal is simply to standardize equipment cost. Currently,y Uplinks don't have to be sacrificed if you place them, then swap to a different suit. Why should they cost the least amount of isk while providing such a high amount of wp reward?
They standardized weapon variants in 1.9, so I believe standardizing all equipment prices is also necessary.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Ku Shala
The Generals
1024
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Posted - 2014.11.24 17:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
The band width is a relatively good Idea I do like more equipment less clusters per piece, how ever is a logi going to fly to a tower to aid a heavy keeping vehicles off the field? I could support the bandwidth proposal easier if we could get a way to call logistics support. I am very mixed on this proposal as I use all roles depending on battle situations. personally will miss nesting but am looking forward to my logi suit actually having a purpose and suspect we will be seeing alot more logi av fits.
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)
Caldari Loyalist
*Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
343
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Posted - 2014.11.24 17:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
From my reply to the BW feedback thread:
Reducing spawns per Link and having more links on the suit
This will lead to the following scenario. In PC, everybody and his mom will bring Links (it's already pretty much like that as far as I know) When you spawn on a link, you will put down another one in that place, or close to it, because otherwise you risk loosing that spawn place shortly.
We will see piles of links just because of that. Also we will not see links in the rear (strategic ones) as much anymore, because if they get drained in 5 spawns, it's not worth the hassle.
What I'm saying, is instead of less, you will see a lot more stuff being dumped, because it's just necessary.
Even in Pub games you will see people spawning with links and dropping them all over the place, since after the first game with no uplinker you will start to think about bringing them yourself (whatever the role).
The other stategy (or lack of) in pubs will be link supported ZERGING. Meaning, everybody will zerg in on the links supplied by the blop, and we can keep everything nice and tidy. Also very Boring. Since links are instantly exhausted, you will only be able to spawn in near the ZergBlop on freshly put down links.
Generally I think that these changes may be OK for hives, but bad for uplinks.
Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
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