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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14069
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Posted - 2014.11.03 03:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:If CCP decides to bring them back, I hope they do, I've been thinking about some of the possible issues we might have.
I've studied all the damages that the LRG Railgun turrets can do from Basic to Proto. Now, I remember my Enforcer & Marauder tank fits. The damages the turrets do now I really believe will not be suffice enough to even bother a full proto Enforcer & especially a Marauder tank.
A Proto Rail Sagaris/Surya Vs. Proto Rail Sagaris/Surya is not gonna work. They'll never kill one another even if they tried -- assuming the pilots are taking care of their Caldari steel. The LRG Rail simply just doesn't have the DPS even with DMG mods.
- I'm pretty sure a well-fitted Falchion/Vayu will have the same deal going on.
So, I think CCP may have to rework the LRG Rails a bit & with that comes a lot of balancing with Dropships Vs. Rail. Or they could rework the tanks themselves, But in the end, I don't see that helping the Rail much. Marauder bonuses might be able to help, But those bonuses must be tread on lightly.
Just some thought on the possible upcoming matter. Any thoughts from any of you?
--Also, Credit goes to ShadowOfWar88 for brainstorming with me.
You make a very valid point.
I've been doing a little brain storming myself for a proposal about introducing Racial Marauder and Enforcer Tanks and aiming on each on of these HAV from roughly around the 10000 EHP, all modules activated in rapid succession. Current low tier AV and HAV would honestly have no capacity to deal with them directly though.
Admittedly no one is going to blow all four main tanking modules within 1-2 second period of time.....but I have to consider this before I submit it.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14069
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Posted - 2014.11.03 03:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:We could have turret variants that have more damage , slower ROF, smaller ammo reserves , longer reload times and take up more CPU / PG , I don't know but more variety is good and it might make up for the lack of punch of the current large turrets but also when fitted , comes with a price in performance so as not to have them become OP .
Strictly anti-vehicle and if there blasters , with the dispersion of the blasters that caused people to call for a change so there not OP to infantry and you really have to be skilled to kill infantry but not too much of a draw of CPU / PG so that you can't fit small turrets and not have to place a extra PG or CPU mod but if so , oh well then . Variants of our turrets to return would be nice, But CCP needs to decide what is fair base damage Per Tier Level. Cause, Base damage for Rails suck & it won't do the job Vs. another tank that is a higher tier than you.
Hmmm I do remember back in the day that my poor skilled Soma just literally could not compete with standard combat Madrugar (the 6735 Armour Maddies of yore) and my guns could not scratch one that had one of those 25% hardeners, and Efficient Heavy Armour Repairers, not to mention the AV......
And yet those days where I was the underdog and out classed by higher SP tankers were the days I most enjoyed and also the days where I was at my peak of tanking skill despite being X million SP down on the next HAV pilot.
GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥
GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥
- Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14072
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Posted - 2014.11.03 03:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:True Adamance wrote: Hmmm I do remember back in the day that my poor skilled Soma just literally could not compete with standard combat Madrugar (the 6735 Armour Maddies of yore) and my guns could not scratch one that had one of those 25% hardeners, and Efficient Heavy Armour Repairers, not to mention the AV......
And yet those days where I was the underdog and out classed by higher SP tankers were the days I most enjoyed and also the days where I was at my peak of tanking skill despite being X million SP down on the next HAV pilot.
I remember those days as well, My friend. You feel like you were more skilled then because you had a greater challenge to face. You were engaging other tanks in a tank that was sub-par to theirs. Doesn't mean your skill is lower any today -- You've just become like those tankers you faced back then. I just want this to be fair. Keeping in mind High risk & high reward goes in with it. If you bring out a Marauder, A Militia class in no way should blow you up -- Even if you sat there & returned no fire.
As I mentioned before I was doing so math (gawdawful math) and roughly came out with no HAV beening significantly more powerful than the current 10K EHP Gunnlogi than can me made now.
(Amarr hits 12200, Gallente 11670, Caldari 11050, and Minmatar 10800 this with one extra module slot filled....... though of course I'm only assuming racial fits...not what could be abused actually the values are less since I'm god awful at maths I simply added the values of the reps as a total.)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14096
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Posted - 2014.11.03 21:24:00 -
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Quasar Storm wrote:Louis Domi wrote:Bring back the old modules, but rework them. Tanks and other vehicles had more variety back then and now its kinda crap. I remember having experimental tank fittings that were so crazy and so fun to test out... I'm hoping to see the vehicle fun return
Still you have to ask what does need to return.
Shield modules currently have never been more balanced if I remember correctly (no one liked Shield HAV back pre 1.7) armour modules could see come interesting returns like active reps, passive plating, etc.
HEAT SINKS ARE A MUST!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14098
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Posted - 2014.11.03 21:52:00 -
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CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:i heard there were also more turrets back then too. Is that true?
Yes variations...or meta levels that had differing attributes like the Compressed Railgun which did more damage but over heated more quickly.
Or much further back in closed beta where there were Gallente Rails which were different still.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14098
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Posted - 2014.11.03 21:58:00 -
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Quasar Storm wrote:True Adamance wrote:Quasar Storm wrote:Louis Domi wrote:Bring back the old modules, but rework them. Tanks and other vehicles had more variety back then and now its kinda crap. I remember having experimental tank fittings that were so crazy and so fun to test out... I'm hoping to see the vehicle fun return Still you have to ask what does need to return. Shield modules currently have never been more balanced if I remember correctly (no one liked Shield HAV back pre 1.7) armour modules could see come interesting returns like active reps, passive plating, etc. HEAT SINKS ARE A MUST! Yeah our old modules will have to return eventually. Also, I've always used shield vehicles with exception of an Incubus -- Which now is a wasted SP investment. Active reps were better. They repaired more & kept you on your toes during an engagement. I think CCP introduced passive armor reps for vehicles because some people can't flip on multiple modules. I want to see more resistance plating or shields of different types. Say like you wanted to make a Vayu brawler type fit. Ion Cannon, Plate, Repair & a Armor hardener that gave more resistance to a specific damage type. Like other blasters or missiles. Maybe put a DMG control & injector & DMG mod for high slots. That would be an all around sound Vayu fit & makes it more unique for its own combat situation -- Which would be close range.
Very much so what I want. I'd also have loved to see vehicles with their own racial damage resistance profiles.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14099
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:10:00 -
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Quasar Storm wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Very much so what I want. I'd also have loved to see vehicles with their own racial damage resistance profiles.
It would be nice. Specialists again we would be.
Well that used to be half the fun of tanking. Finding your target, breaking down what modules you think they have, how best to engage them, then trying to put that into effect.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14099
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:17:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:Quasar Storm wrote: Actually it wasn't until a few months ago that I realized how many players cry over things.
Read the Destiny forum some time. Those people take "whiny b*tch" to an entirely new and exciting level. But as far as things go I think AV and V should be reverted to Chromosome. Yes this means I think LAVS that are FREE and UNTANKED should be suicide sleds. But the only place where marauders were well-balanced was chrome. They were hard, but they could be killed, especially if you were like me, and neurotic enough to figure out how to torch them. However... Due to the fact that militia tanks would basically be dogchow in the face of proto AV were vehicles and the toys that kill them to revert to chrome, I think Sica and Soma BPOs, as well as militia module BPOs for vehicles should be a thing, along with militia dropships and militia jeeps. Vehicles and Av need a sharp shakeup, and there's enough players with AV and the SP changes will make it possible to skill AV RAPIDLY. Some survivability/killing improvements may be in order.
I was that dog chow and in hind sight loved every minute of it.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14099
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:31:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:You're just never gonna get me to agree that vehicles shouldn't be soloable by AV.
One player must ALWAYS be counterable by one player.
Doesn't have to be EASY though. Just has to be doable with a reasonable application of skill, tactics and positioning.
Yup as it become progressively easier to destroy a Tank (god curse those Ishukone Assault Forgeguns) it should be progressively harder for a low tier AV to drop a high tier DS/HAV. Though that would really be the case due to that 1 extra module slot for HAV or D/S
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14099
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:38:00 -
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Quasar Storm wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:You're just never gonna get me to agree that vehicles shouldn't be soloable by AV.
One player must ALWAYS be counterable by one player.
Doesn't have to be EASY though. Just has to be doable with a reasonable application of skill, tactics and positioning. One thing I know is, A good pilot will know when to move & when to stay. I don't think swarms should solo a Tank just because swarms are EZ. Forges on the other hand, Completely different. Takes a lot of skill & patience to be devastating with a forge gun. If the tanker you are lighting up is a moron, Then yes -- It should be solo-able. Which makes the account, Every tank is already solo-able. Just depends if the pilot is a moron or not. I still believe the old tanks should remain around this. I don't hate AV. Its not the player's fault for specing into something that they will need. In fact, I admire most AV-ers that stand against the war machines. There is only one thing about AV that I do hate & its becoming an epidemic in every single match I play -- Jihad Jeeps. Nothing is more stupid when you defeat another tanker & then he just puts remotes on a cheap militia LAV and 1KO's you.
That's honestly the worst.
I also would suggest that I admire a Good AVer....... I tend to mock the ones that try to stand in the open and put rounds on me......but I cannot disguise my disdain for the Jihad Jeep. There is perhaps 1 turret that can directly counter it due to its tracking, and one HAV in one specific instance that can survive a blast that has a range of 15m.
If marauders come back, they'd better be able to survive Jihads..... there would literally be nothing worse than a guy with all blue print original gear being able to instantly gib your (estimate given my currently deployed HAV cost between 650-824K ISK) 1.5 Million+ ISK and 20+ Million SP vehicles.
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- Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14149
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Posted - 2014.11.04 08:55:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:Lupus Wolf wrote:If the higher level tanks were brought back, that would require re-balancing... INCLUDING AV. This is actually one of the core points of the discussion. In fact I would say it is THE core point.
Indeed.
One of my core concerns about HAV is that in Dust 514 they do not function as I feel Heavy Attack Vehicles should. Their very description suggest that they should anchor a terrestrial battle line and that the possess significant fire power, enough to destroy low altitude star ships.
Another issue is that I feel HAV have had the functionality of the operator removed a little too much from their fitting and operation, these concerns begin with how HAV are fit and the limited number of viable fittings that you can have as well as lack of diverse modules, and continue into the removal of active module activation and management that was lost during the transition from 1.6-1.7.
Where previously an HAV would consist of roughly 4-6 active modules that required management and careful timing for peak efficiency most HAV only require 1-2 active modules to operate.
Finally I feel like Large Turrets lack the power (damage in terms of alpha) that they should possess as massive ordinance packed onto mechanized hulls. Moreover while I feel HAV turrets lack a sense/ the ability to convey as sense of power so too does AV. AV weapons are supposed to be able to penetrate Heavy Shielding and 120mm hardened plate armour they should feel like it.
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