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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
98
   |
Posted - 2014.07.21 10:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm partial to proto stomping but it is a huge problem. I think its safe to say that we might well have triple or more the players if 99% of them weren't literally stomped out of the game.
The general consensus is........
We don't want to be locked into tiered battles.
Matchmaking simply won't work as there's not enough players.
So for me, this boils down to the fact that vets like me can spam proto rain or shine while newer players by default, can't even fight back. They simple can't afford the level of try hard that we can achieve.
I propose that proto costs are lowered, us vets will always stomp and we are not going to stop using what we have spent over a year getting at the behest of 'fair fights'.
The price only stops newer players from fighting back, its doesn't stop vets from spamming and never will. Bastards like me take it a step further and spam proto aurum.
What sparked this?,.
Iv know this for ages but I just went 34/0 against a stacked squad, I literally downed their whole squad in one sitting a few times and although I'm consistently good whatever the situation, I'm not the best by far.
Its not because they were crap, but because they didn't have the isk to fight back and I could tell that they really wanted to win even though it was a pub match. I am an amarr assault with viziam scp and scr to name one of the setups I run.
One of them was doing OK until I killed him so he had to revert to mlt gear because his one suit costed him. I could have died 100 times in full proto and not batted an eyelid. He demonstrated that gear does matter a lot more than people make out. It was not a stacked stomp either, just me.
If it was such a non factor that people propose, then I suggest its proven by running starter/mlt gear in PC with mlt/std mods against COMPETENT players that are running full proto and see how little it matters then.
Now imagine me and 5 buddies.......this is the general norm or its a proto squad aside that sees every other player in between as just fodder and meat shields that add to our payments at the end of the match.
It doesn't seem to matter at which way the game is changed, us vets will always have the isk. Lowering the price is a buff to the newbs and doesn't make a difference to vets because we have enough isk forever and the means to obtain it cost free (bpos).
I love a good stomp, but it has to stop.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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Michael Arck
4931
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Posted - 2014.07.21 10:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
100
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 10:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some common arguments and what I think of them are........
1. I run an mlt light frame and do well.
Yes well when 90% of the players on the field don't know you are there then obviously you'll do well, hence the people who bring a knife to a gun fight. You either have never played PC or get lucky bashing fresh academy newbs.
2. Proto should only be used for PC, ban it from pubs.
That maybe so but its not and locking proto out of pubs means that a lot of newer players may never even get to use it. The game also doesn't offer anything that makes proto special except that it costs a lot.
3. I have used std/mlt in PC, git gud.
Yeah so have I, against crap teams. Anything works well against scrubs and that doesn't even really relate to this topic.
4. Newbs should earn their place.
This one is the golden cup of bs because the game offers nothing that warrants new players to try hard at anything right now.
5. There will be too much proto.
Kind of but there'd be more on both teams and thus 'fairer fights'
6. They just need to git gud.
That's very hard to do when you get one/two shotted every 5 mins.
7.Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
Just because you are not seeing it, doesn't mean it's not happening. I have been seeing it loads, point mooted.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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al nize mk2
No Skillz inc.
113
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Posted - 2014.07.21 10:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Very interesting point and sounds like a good idea. I haven't exactly reached proto-stomping level but I am gleeful if I go up against weaker opposition, safe in the knowledge the odds are stacked in my favour. It's an evil game like that.
I wouldn't cry if something were done to stop proto-stomping even before I reach the point where I can do it. When you get a balanced game of Dust it really does make the game seem like perfection.
GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
346
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Posted - 2014.07.21 10:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Or you could only run Proto when you see are killed first in your advanced gear by a Proto suit. Then you upgrade. Vets like stomping, don't matter if it's newer players or each other. Simply lowering the prices will not do, it has to come from the players. They know that killing all the new players causes them to leave. Do you honestly think they care? I don't. I only run advanced, basic, or militia at the start of matches. If I must breach a point in domination where the enemy is very well dug in, and I die several times in my advance suit, then I bring out Proto. The problem is when you have 6 Proto players slaughtering through the entire team at the beginning. If you're so good, and you have proficiency 5 on a gun, just run militia. Level 5 cores, put an equipment on a frontline.
The only suit that I feel can run Proto, and should be allowed is a Logi, because when we go down, it's 250k, but I can keep all my teammates up.
All in all, run advanced until you die by a Proto suit. End all
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3100
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
While you can indeed say Protostomping has been reduced, it is still a Huge concern. Of every three matches I pay one is stomp against me, one is stomp for me and one seems to be evenly matched but is over faster than the stomps.
The only reason Stomping has declined since Legion is because many of the Stompers have left, or gone inert.
The thimg is dropping the price of Proto won't even break our econmy amd even if it did there would be no lasting effects outside this game.
Truth be told, their is no reason not make everything cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for it.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
103
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Or you could only run Proto when you see are killed first in your advanced gear by a Proto suit. Then you upgrade. Vets like stomping, don't matter if it's newer players or each other. Simply lowering the prices will not do, it has to come from the players. They know that killing all the new players causes them to leave. Do you honestly think they care? I don't think they do. I only run advanced, basic, or militia at the start of matches. If I must breach a point in domination where the enemy is very well dug in, and I die several times in my advance suit, then I bring out Proto. The problem is when you have 6 Proto players slaughtering through the entire team at the beginning. If you're so good, and you have proficiency 5 on a gun, just run militia. Level 5 cores, put an equipment on a frontline.
The only suit that I feel can run Proto, and should be allowed is a Logi, because when we go down, it's 250k, but I can keep all my teammates up.
All in all, run advanced until you die by a Proto suit. End all
No they do care but not enough to stop using proto, I'm a shining example in my amarr swag.
I know loads of players who constantly don't have enough isk.
They want to be competitive and bring the beef but they can't unless they grind for ages., they are kind of stuck with......
Save isk and get farmed
Bring the beef and have fun but have no isk
Beg in local for isk (iv handed out hundreds of millions on my main to these guys and I api them from eve to make sure they're worth it).
Those are generally their options and with such little content, they just quit. Check the NPC corps numbers, you'll see how many people don't play anymore.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3100
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Or you could only run Proto when you see are killed first in your advanced gear by a Proto suit. Then you upgrade. Vets like stomping, don't matter if it's newer players or each other. Simply lowering the prices will not do, it has to come from the players. They know that killing all the new players causes them to leave. Do you honestly think they care? I don't think they do. I only run advanced, basic, or militia at the start of matches. If I must breach a point in domination where the enemy is very well dug in, and I die several times in my advance suit, then I bring out Proto. The problem is when you have 6 Proto players slaughtering through the entire team at the beginning. If you're so good, and you have proficiency 5 on a gun, just run militia. Level 5 cores, put an equipment on a frontline.
The only suit that I feel can run Proto, and should be allowed is a Logi, because when we go down, it's 250k, but I can keep all my teammates up.
All in all, run advanced until you die by a Proto suit. End all
Yeah but that's not going to happen, you said yourself, Vets like Stomping. Vets aren't going to place nice so a few more greens stick around while we wait till Legion, they don't care.
You think the FOTM Proto Spamming Corps are just turn around and agree to down all that makes them relevant so they can have a fair fight? I mean look at CEO Pyrex at his gang, they made a video about how we should be prepared to stick it out in matchs a little more, run lower meta level gear and so forth.
But even they won't do it, people don't like to loose and the only way a fair fight can e achieved is everyone has access tomthe same stuff.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
347
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Your quote doesn't give me a lot of faith in you lol
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
|
RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
103
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
While you can indeed say Protostomping has been reduced, it is still a Huge concern. Of every three matches I pay one is stomp against me, one is stomp for me and one seems to be evenly matched but is over faster than the stomps. The only reason Stomping has declined since Legion is because many of the Stompers have left, or gone inert. The thimg is dropping the price of Proto won't even break our econmy amd even if it did there would be no lasting effects outside this game. Truth be told, their is no reason not make everything cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for it.
100%.
There's no economy to break and not enough content to make it worth reaching vet level.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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Michael Arck
4935
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Or you could only run Proto when you see are killed first in your advanced gear by a Proto suit. Then you upgrade. Vets like stomping, don't matter if it's newer players or each other. Simply lowering the prices will not do, it has to come from the players. They know that killing all the new players causes them to leave. Do you honestly think they care? I don't think they do. I only run advanced, basic, or militia at the start of matches. If I must breach a point in domination where the enemy is very well dug in, and I die several times in my advance suit, then I bring out Proto. The problem is when you have 6 Proto players slaughtering through the entire team at the beginning. If you're so good, and you have proficiency 5 on a gun, just run militia. Level 5 cores, put an equipment on a frontline.
The only suit that I feel can run Proto, and should be allowed is a Logi, because when we go down, it's 250k, but I can keep all my teammates up.
All in all, run advanced until you die by a Proto suit. End all
Exactly. I do the same thing. I mainly run ADV. If the ante is upped, I bring out the proto. You can get the job done with ADV but like you said, mercs love stomping.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
350
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
True but by lowering the price, you devalue you Proto. This is why i LOVED IT when Basic Suits costed less than the speciality suits, and the Suits ALL costed different amounts... New players with less isk could buy a cheaper Proto suit until they saved for the bonuses of the other.
As of right now, Basic just has you use less skill points.
CCP Rattati, is it possible you could change Dropsuit prices again so Heavies cost most, followed by Commando, Assault, Scout, Logistics in terms of base prices.
Basic Proto is half of normal, as the skill investment needed for basic is about half of the speciality
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3103
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Your quote doesn't give me a lot of faith in you lol
I wouldn't expect it to, I am in a contrary position to you here, but you still like my posts.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3106
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:True but by lowering the price, you devalue you Proto. This is why i LOVED IT when Basic Suits costed less than the speciality suits, and the Suits ALL costed different amounts... New players with less isk could buy a cheaper Proto suit until they saved for the bonuses of the other.
As of right now, Basic just has you use less skill points.
CCP Rattati, is it possible you could change Dropsuit prices again so Heavies cost most, followed by Commando, Assault, Scout, Logistics in terms of base prices.
Basic Proto is half of normal, as the skill investment needed for basic is about half of the speciality
You see this is one of the few things I'm looking forward to in Z's legion progression system, no tiers, just the choice of playstyle.
Although I must admit, I'm not looking forward to suit BPO's
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
352
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:Your quote doesn't give me a lot of faith in you lol I wouldn't expect it to, I am in a contrary position to you here, but you still like my posts.
I like posts because I find humor, a good point, or a reasonable argument in them. Not to mention ever since I saw your posts in Judge Rhadamanthus's thread on Dropship prices, my respect for you went through the roof...
07 and run ADV
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
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Michael Arck
4935
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
While you can indeed say Protostomping has been reduced, it is still a Huge concern. Of every three matches I pay one is stomp against me, one is stomp for me and one seems to be evenly matched but is over faster than the stomps. The only reason Stomping has declined since Legion is because many of the Stompers have left, or gone inert. The thimg is dropping the price of Proto won't even break our econmy amd even if it did there would be no lasting effects outside this game. Truth be told, their is no reason not make everything cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for it.
I do not understand. If it has reduced, then why is it a huge concern? That doesnt equal out properly. Is it just something to talk about for the sake of?
Again, lowering the price of the suit does nothing. The merc has to have core skills maxed. Weapon pro maxed. Lowering the price just gives new players more frustration and sets a tone that the suit is what makes the mercenary when in fact its not just the prototype suit that factors in on the protostomp.
If players are so concerned then why not wear ADV in a pub match because...its a pub match and you're concerned about bluez getting stomped.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
352
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:True but by lowering the price, you devalue you Proto. This is why i LOVED IT when Basic Suits costed less than the speciality suits, and the Suits ALL costed different amounts... New players with less isk could buy a cheaper Proto suit until they saved for the bonuses of the other.
As of right now, Basic just has you use less skill points.
CCP Rattati, is it possible you could change Dropsuit prices again so Heavies cost most, followed by Commando, Assault, Scout, Logistics in terms of base prices.
Basic Proto is half of normal, as the skill investment needed for basic is about half of the speciality You see this is one of the few things I'm looking forward to in Z's legion progression system, no tiers, just the choice of playstyle. Although I must admit, I'm not looking forward to suit BPO's
Suit BPOs annoy me as well. It added a great metric to Dust, Risk vs Reward. It is the fault of the company for making PC so great, and the pathetic NPE that didn't teach players how to spend their isk or ANYTHING. Keep suits costing money, the BPO nonsense makes players not care if they die, unless there is a penalty for it
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
790
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
RendonaSix wrote:I'm partial to proto stomping but it is a huge problem. I think its safe to say that we might well have triple or more the players if 99% of them weren't literally stomped out of the game.
The general consensus is........
We don't want to be locked into tiered battles.
Matchmaking simply won't work as there's not enough players.
So for me, this boils down to the fact that vets like me can spam proto rain or shine while newer players by default, can't even fight back. They simple can't afford the level of try hard that we can achieve.
I propose that proto costs are lowered, us vets will always stomp and we are not going to stop using what we have spent over a year getting at the behest of 'fair fights'.
The price only stops newer players from fighting back, its doesn't stop vets from spamming and never will. Bastards like me take it a step further and spam proto aurum.
What sparked this?,.
Iv know this for ages but I just went 34/0 against a stacked squad, I literally downed their whole squad in one sitting a few times and although I'm consistently good whatever the situation, I'm not the best by far.
Its not because they were crap, but because they didn't have the isk to fight back and I could tell that they really wanted to win even though it was a pub match. I am an amarr assault with viziam scp and scr to name one of the setups I run.
One of them was doing OK until I killed him so he had to revert to mlt gear because his one suit costed him. I could have died 100 times in full proto and not batted an eyelid. He demonstrated that gear does matter a lot more than people make out. It was not a stacked stomp either, just me.
If it was such a non factor that people propose, then I suggest its proven by running starter/mlt gear in PC with mlt/std mods against COMPETENT players that are running full proto and see how little it matters then.
Now imagine me and 5 buddies.......this is the general norm or its a proto squad aside that sees every other player in between as just fodder and meat shields that add to our payments at the end of the match.
It doesn't seem to matter at which way the game is changed, us vets will always have the isk. Lowering the price is a buff to the newbs and doesn't make a difference to vets because we have enough isk forever and the means to obtain it cost free (bpos).
I love a good stomp, but it has to stop.
The LP payout increase is likely going to fix this even if it increases AFKing in FW. Not only will newer players get suits cheaper they will also be able to use them earlier.
The funny thing is I feel the same way you do about this only when it comes to the increase to orbital requirements. When I get bored and proto stomp a little the only thing I worry about is the random squad of 3 guys that are using uplinks to make points off my kills dropping a bomb on my head. This will be gone for newer players while my squads will only see a couple less orbitals that we did not need.
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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
104
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
While you can indeed say Protostomping has been reduced, it is still a Huge concern. Of every three matches I pay one is stomp against me, one is stomp for me and one seems to be evenly matched but is over faster than the stomps. The only reason Stomping has declined since Legion is because many of the Stompers have left, or gone inert. The thimg is dropping the price of Proto won't even break our econmy amd even if it did there would be no lasting effects outside this game. Truth be told, their is no reason not make everything cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for it. I do not understand. If it has reduced, then why is it a huge concern? That doesnt equal out properly. Is it just something to talk about for the sake of? Again, lowering the price of the suit does nothing. The merc has to have core skills maxed. Weapon pro maxed. Lowering the price just gives new players more frustration and sets a tone that the suit is what makes the mercenary when in fact its not just the prototype suit that factors in on the protostomp. If players are so concerned then why not wear ADV in a pub match because...its a pub match and you're concerned about bluez getting stomped.
Your going off track a bit, this is about making proto more available through cost to newbs, not what we think of it.
We have enough isk to proto stomp forever so does it really matter what we think of it?. They could double the cost and I'd still be spamming and there are hundreds more who have ten times the isk I have.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
104
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:RendonaSix wrote:I'm partial to proto stomping but it is a huge problem. I think its safe to say that we might well have triple or more the players if 99% of them weren't literally stomped out of the game.
The general consensus is........
We don't want to be locked into tiered battles.
Matchmaking simply won't work as there's not enough players.
So for me, this boils down to the fact that vets like me can spam proto rain or shine while newer players by default, can't even fight back. They simple can't afford the level of try hard that we can achieve.
I propose that proto costs are lowered, us vets will always stomp and we are not going to stop using what we have spent over a year getting at the behest of 'fair fights'.
The price only stops newer players from fighting back, its doesn't stop vets from spamming and never will. Bastards like me take it a step further and spam proto aurum.
What sparked this?,.
Iv know this for ages but I just went 34/0 against a stacked squad, I literally downed their whole squad in one sitting a few times and although I'm consistently good whatever the situation, I'm not the best by far.
Its not because they were crap, but because they didn't have the isk to fight back and I could tell that they really wanted to win even though it was a pub match. I am an amarr assault with viziam scp and scr to name one of the setups I run.
One of them was doing OK until I killed him so he had to revert to mlt gear because his one suit costed him. I could have died 100 times in full proto and not batted an eyelid. He demonstrated that gear does matter a lot more than people make out. It was not a stacked stomp either, just me.
If it was such a non factor that people propose, then I suggest its proven by running starter/mlt gear in PC with mlt/std mods against COMPETENT players that are running full proto and see how little it matters then.
Now imagine me and 5 buddies.......this is the general norm or its a proto squad aside that sees every other player in between as just fodder and meat shields that add to our payments at the end of the match.
It doesn't seem to matter at which way the game is changed, us vets will always have the isk. Lowering the price is a buff to the newbs and doesn't make a difference to vets because we have enough isk forever and the means to obtain it cost free (bpos).
I love a good stomp, but it has to stop. The LP payout increase is likely going to fix this even if it increases AFKing in FW. Not only will newer players get suits cheaper they will also be able to use them earlier. The funny thing is I feel the same way you do about this only when it comes to the increase to orbital requirements. When I get bored and proto stomp a little the only thing I worry about is the random squad of 3 guys that are using uplinks to make points off my kills dropping a bomb on my head. This will be gone for newer players while my squads will only see a couple less orbitals that we did not need.
Proto cost translated.
If you wasn't in beta or didn't get carried from uprising onwards, then F you buddy.
Ah right, that's a good start.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
353
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
If your so saddened that blues can't help themselves, then you should teach them to get better, as well as run ADV
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
792
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
RendonaSix wrote:
Your going off track a bit, this is about making proto more available through cost to newbs, not what we think of it.
We have enough isk to proto stomp forever so does it really matter what we think of it?. They could double the cost and I'd still be spamming and there are hundreds more who have ten times the isk I have.
I agree, I have untold ISK and a huge amount of LP piled up because my ISK made me bored with pubs.
Staying on track I will revert to the first part of my statement, LP increase will help newbs that want proto cheaper and care to figure out how to get it. This is assuming that the x-fold part holds true in the hotfix charlie notes and it is not just a 10% increase or some crap. Anyone can go into FW and that is proven by every match we queve into that obviously does not have a single organized squad on the other side which is about 90% of the time.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3107
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
While you can indeed say Protostomping has been reduced, it is still a Huge concern. Of every three matches I pay one is stomp against me, one is stomp for me and one seems to be evenly matched but is over faster than the stomps. The only reason Stomping has declined since Legion is because many of the Stompers have left, or gone inert. The thimg is dropping the price of Proto won't even break our econmy amd even if it did there would be no lasting effects outside this game. Truth be told, their is no reason not make everything cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for it. I do not understand. If it has reduced, then why is it a huge concern? That doesnt equal out properly. Is it just something to talk about for the sake of? Again, lowering the price of the suit does nothing. The merc has to have core skills maxed. Weapon pro maxed. Lowering the price just gives new players more frustration and sets a tone that the suit is what makes the mercenary when in fact its not just the prototype suit that factors in on the protostomp. If players are so concerned then why not wear ADV in a pub match because...its a pub match and you're concerned about bluez getting stomped.
Violent Crime has reduced rapidly in the last few years, shall we stop talking about it completely dispite the fact it still happens multiple time every day? Something can decrease or be reduced yet still be a problem. Like I said earlier 2/3 matches I play in pubs are stomps.
The flood water has dropped by 2 inches, you can now all go back to your lives as if the 3 feet that still left isn't here.
If anything it reduces that tone, because they will see people who have skilled all the way to Proto first amd are dying because they have less EHP than my Medic Starter Fit. New Eden is supposed to be a huge learning curve, what better leson than teaching you the suit means nothing if you can't back it up.
I do wear advanced, I have two Proto Level fittings that I never wear. But ask someone like Regyum or Nitrobeacon or all those kind of people if they will wear advanced. They won't, they won't even wear advanced with Proto Modules.
It's an admirable idea don't get me wrong, I would love everyone to voluntarily wear ADV gear and only use Proto formthe really intense matches, but it won't happen.
It's like getting the UK to go green, we could be as Eco Friendly as Iceland, but it won't make a difference if Europe and America aren't prepared to do the same.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
104
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:If your so saddened that blues can't help themselves, then you should teach them to get better, as well as run ADV
I have actually trained hundreds and hundreds of players, handed out hundreds of millions of isk and randomly helped in matches.
None of that matters when ultimately, we can spam forever while they cannot.
If the game had major content coming, then I'd not be saying this but there isn't so its crucial to make the game fun for everyone and quit that old mentality we all adopted from when dust was actually looking o be the best thing since sliced bread and worth grinding for.
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
353
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yay so now newer players can LOSE iso in FW and not get any back for deaths
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Freedom aw8s
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Sleepy Shadow
Qualified Scrub
199
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
To be honest, the price of the protosuit alone is not that much. Sure it is vastly more expensive than a STD suit, but not a whole lot. I cannot log in right now, but a protosuit is something like 60K ISK?
ItGÇÖs what you fill it with that raises the price to high heavens. So even if they lowered the price of the proto suit to 20K ISK the total saving for someone poor would be 40K ISK. ThatGÇÖs it. The total cost of the entire fitting would probably still be over 150K ISK.
The most expensive parts in proto fitting, aside from the suit itself, are the weapons. My ACR alone is 77,5K ISK, donGÇÖt remember what my Six Kin SMG is but it doesnGÇÖt come cheap. So you would have to lower the prices of the proto suits as well as weapons to make any significant change in the total cost of the suit.
And while this wouldnGÇÖt have any lasting effects on economy, the game being dead and all, it will have a direct effect on match payouts. The payout is based (partially) on ISK destroyed. So if the ISK destroyed is reduced, so is your payout. So it may well be that with reduced payouts, poor people still canGÇÖt afford protoGǪ
I have never proto stomped but now that DUST 514 is dead I can do it without remorse!! 355 million ISK to go.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3111
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:RendonaSix wrote:
Your going off track a bit, this is about making proto more available through cost to newbs, not what we think of it.
We have enough isk to proto stomp forever so does it really matter what we think of it?. They could double the cost and I'd still be spamming and there are hundreds more who have ten times the isk I have.
I agree, I have untold ISK and a huge amount of LP piled up because my ISK made me bored with pubs. Staying on track I will revert to the first part of my statement, LP increase will help newbs that want proto cheaper and care to figure out how to get it. This is assuming that the x-fold part holds true in the hotfix charlie notes and it is not just a 10% increase or some crap. Anyone can go into FW and that is proven by every match we queve into that obviously does not have a single organized squad on the other side which is about 90% of the time.
I for one am gonna start doing more FW I'll probably end up buying Adv level suits from their to keep costs down.
My habit for ADS's has literally left me broke, I have 320,000 ISK and 80 suits to my name.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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RendonaSix
Techs Laboratory
104
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Lowering the price does nothing to aid the noob because he has to get the skillpoints.. He has to get the core skills maxed or he's just driving a Lambo with a Ford Escort engine inside.
Protostomping is hardly ever a factor as it once was. I feel like people are saying that without actually playing the game. Protostomping was more frequent before the announcement of Legion. I could see it then. Now? Not so much.
While you can indeed say Protostomping has been reduced, it is still a Huge concern. Of every three matches I pay one is stomp against me, one is stomp for me and one seems to be evenly matched but is over faster than the stomps. The only reason Stomping has declined since Legion is because many of the Stompers have left, or gone inert. The thimg is dropping the price of Proto won't even break our econmy amd even if it did there would be no lasting effects outside this game. Truth be told, their is no reason not make everything cheaper, but there are plenty of reasons for it. I do not understand. If it has reduced, then why is it a huge concern? That doesnt equal out properly. Is it just something to talk about for the sake of? Again, lowering the price of the suit does nothing. The merc has to have core skills maxed. Weapon pro maxed. Lowering the price just gives new players more frustration and sets a tone that the suit is what makes the mercenary when in fact its not just the prototype suit that factors in on the protostomp. If players are so concerned then why not wear ADV in a pub match because...its a pub match and you're concerned about bluez getting stomped. Violent Crime has reduced rapidly in the last few years, shall we stop talking about it completely dispite the fact it still happens multiple time every day? Something can decrease or be reduced yet still be a problem. Like I said earlier 2/3 matches I play in pubs are stomps. The flood water has dropped by 2 inches, you can now all go back to your lives as if the 3 feet that still left isn't here.If anything it reduces that tone, because they will see people who have skilled all the way to Proto first amd are dying because they have less EHP than my Medic Starter Fit. New Eden is supposed to be a huge learning curve, what better leson than teaching you the suit means nothing if you can't back it up. I do wear advanced, I have two Proto Level fittings that I never wear. But ask someone like Regyum or Nitrobeacon or all those kind of people if they will wear advanced. They won't, they won't even wear advanced with Proto Modules. It's an admirable idea don't get me wrong, I would love everyone to voluntarily wear ADV gear and only use Proto formthe really intense matches, but it won't happen. It's like getting the UK to go green, we could be as Eco Friendly as Iceland, but it won't make a difference if Europe and America aren't prepared to do the same.
Bravo old chap, I try to be as green as possible, even when smoking .
"For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
795
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Yay so now newer players can LOSE iso in FW and not get any back for deaths
Just like pubs free suits can be used just as effectively. The difference is with LP they can put more of their SP into core skills to make all of their suits a little bit better while still getting proto suits at the cost of nothing more than their K/D.
It really comes back to the fact that if you realize that K/D is nothing more than a brag stat you can have all you want including the money to pull out proto when needed to pull off a fun win.
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
Dark Taboo
1662
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 11:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
RendonaSix wrote:I'm partial to proto stomping but it is a huge problem. I think its safe to say that we might well have triple or more the players if 99% of them weren't literally stomped out of the game.
The general consensus is........
We don't want to be locked into tiered battles.
Matchmaking simply won't work as there's not enough players.
So for me, this boils down to the fact that vets like me can spam proto rain or shine while newer players by default, can't even fight back. They simple can't afford the level of try hard that we can achieve.
I propose that proto costs are lowered, us vets will always stomp and we are not going to stop using what we have spent over a year getting at the behest of 'fair fights'.
The price only stops newer players from fighting back, its doesn't stop vets from spamming and never will. Bastards like me take it a step further and spam proto aurum.
What sparked this?,.
Iv know this for ages but I just went 34/0 against a stacked squad, I literally downed their whole squad in one sitting a few times and although I'm consistently good whatever the situation, I'm not the best by far.
Its not because they were crap, but because they didn't have the isk to fight back and I could tell that they really wanted to win even though it was a pub match. I am an amarr assault with viziam scp and scr to name one of the setups I run.
One of them was doing OK until I killed him so he had to revert to mlt gear because his one suit costed him. I could have died 100 times in full proto and not batted an eyelid. He demonstrated that gear does matter a lot more than people make out. It was not a stacked stomp either, just me.
If it was such a non factor that people propose, then I suggest its proven by running starter/mlt gear in PC with mlt/std mods against COMPETENT players that are running full proto and see how little it matters then.
Now imagine me and 5 buddies.......this is the general norm or its a proto squad aside that sees every other player in between as just fodder and meat shields that add to our payments at the end of the match.
It doesn't seem to matter at which way the game is changed, us vets will always have the isk. Lowering the price is a buff to the newbs and doesn't make a difference to vets because we have enough isk forever and the means to obtain it cost free (bpos).
I love a good stomp, but it has to stop.
If the person in Militia gear is any good, he will be able to make loads of ISK, to eventually afford proper Proto gear, i sometimes jump on a completely new character, and only spend 50k or so of the 500k sp it has and still literally go 35-50/x where x is slightly higher then if i was wearing my full proto suit, sure i can go 85/5 in proto but that just meant the opponents where terrible.
It really does matter if they would be wearing Proto, they would find something else to whine about and then quit the game.
The only truly good thing people can do that are bad at FPS games is whine about every little unfair advantage everyone else seems to have over them. without acknowledging that for some of us, it has taken 15 years of FPS games to get this good.
On PC these same people would fork over 20$ to get the latest Aimbot that cant be detected and then pm you about how awesome they are.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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