DUST Search - Hotfix Charlie Suggestion: Vehicle Shields

Tebu Gan wrote:

Harpyja wrote:

I'm curious to see what would happen if the regular depleted shield recharge delay on vehicles is removed while the depleted recharge delay is increased by at least 50%.

I feel that since shield vehicles have lower HP ceilings than armor vehicles, it only makes sense that damage mitigation for shield vehicles should come from regeneration, while armor vehicles should rely on EHP for damage mitigation.

Low EHP should have high regeneration and vice versa. However, armor vehicles get better regeneration than shield. Their reps never get disrupted and even two basic heavy reps are comparable to a shield tank's recharge rate. On top of that they have higher base EHP. Sure, shield vehicles get free regeneration while armor has to spend slots to gain regeneration, but shield vehicles have to spend slots to gain HP while armor does not, so I think that balances out.

Armor vehicles can rep through small amounts of DPS while shield vehicles cannot because their recharge is disrupted. Armor vehicles can sit there and absorb that DPS, while shield vehicles are forced to run away at the slightest presence of DPS, otherwise their shield will slowly get chipped away.

Also, I'd like a skill that gives 5% to recharge rate per level to be comparable to armor's 5% to armor rep efficacy per level. I'd also like to see the return of shield recharge modules (both shield rechargers and power diagnostic units) as they'd be more useful now than in 1.6. 25% to at least 168 hp/s is a lot more useful than 25% to 22 hp/s.

I really want to see fits based on recharge viable instead of the current meta of stacking extenders and hardeners. I also want to see armor fits based on plates and hardeners instead of stacking reps, but I'm not an expert on armor to say anything on that.

Address the fact that a shield vehicle dual tanks (plates in the lows / reps) then we can talk. Shield vehicles are already, in my opinion, stronger than armor vehicles due to this fact.

Plus, considering my time as a forge gunner (haven't touched my tanks yet), armor is MUCH easier for me to forge gun and kill, as compared to the gunnlogi that seems to never die, via hardeners, maneuverability (agility), decent shield regen (it's not as bad as you make it out to be), and high CPU/PG values that allow for dual tanking.

And plates and hardeners?? Why? Do you want to further cripple armor tanks!


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Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1909	Posted - 2014.06.22 14:13:00 - [1] - Quote I'm curious to see what would happen if the regular depleted shield recharge delay on vehicles is removed while the depleted recharge delay is increased by at least 50%. I feel that since shield vehicles have lower HP ceilings than armor vehicles, it only makes sense that damage mitigation for shield vehicles should come from regeneration, while armor vehicles should rely on EHP for damage mitigation. Low EHP should have high regeneration and vice versa. However, armor vehicles get better regeneration than shield. Their reps never get disrupted and even two basic heavy reps are comparable to a shield tank's recharge rate. On top of that they have higher base EHP. Sure, shield vehicles get free regeneration while armor has to spend slots to gain regeneration, but shield vehicles have to spend slots to gain HP while armor does not, so I think that balances out. Armor vehicles can rep through small amounts of DPS while shield vehicles cannot because their recharge is disrupted. Armor vehicles can sit there and absorb that DPS, while shield vehicles are forced to run away at the slightest presence of DPS, otherwise their shield will slowly get chipped away. Also, I'd like a skill that gives 5% to recharge rate per level to be comparable to armor's 5% to armor rep efficacy per level. I'd also like to see the return of shield recharge modules (both shield rechargers and power diagnostic units) as they'd be more useful now than in 1.6. 25% to at least 168 hp/s is a lot more useful than 25% to 22 hp/s. I really want to see fits based on recharge viable instead of the current meta of stacking extenders and hardeners. I also want to see armor fits based on plates and hardeners instead of stacking reps, but I'm not an expert on armor to say anything on that. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1912	Posted - 2014.06.22 15:36:00 - [2] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I think Shield Boosters are supposed to make regen centered shield fittings more viable. However they seem comparatively useless. A heavy shield booster replenishes 1900 hp, if I remember correctly. Congratulations, that's one damage amped railgun shot. A small shield booster replenishes 900 hp. Even with a hardener running that's not enough ehp to replenish the damage from one railgun shot. Can we maybe come up with numbers that make shield boosters more attractive? Would that help shield vehicles? If so, should shield boosters grant a bigger shield injection, or have a reduced cooldown? Maybe have several pulses for a higher total hp replenished instead of the current single pulse? My opinion is that somebody at CCP thought long and hard about why shields should have a recharge delay while armor vehicles should not. That's why that person came up with shield boosters. Maybe we should first confirm that the principle can't be fixed before we give up that mechanic. Well if you're going for a fit based on regen, high alpha should be your natural weakness. Now for boosters. I think their fitting costs are too much. They are essentially single-use (with a cooldown between uses) shield extenders that grant more HP. I think that the fact that they are active and are "single-use" while extenders can constantly get recharged balanced out the fact that they give more HP. I think it'd greatly benefit if their fitting costs are brought down to match extender costs. Another problem with boosters is that they are bugged and people seem to have come to the conclusion that any damage that disrupts shield regen prevents the booster from working properly if that damage is taken during its one second active time. I don't know about that, as last I used one it worked under large blaster fire while it didn't work for me under large railgun fire (I tried activating it during the shots and in between the shots but it never seemed to work). "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1914	Posted - 2014.06.22 17:14:00 - [3] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Harpyja wrote: I'm curious to see what would happen if the regular depleted shield recharge delay on vehicles is removed while the depleted recharge delay is increased by at least 50%. I feel that since shield vehicles have lower HP ceilings than armor vehicles, it only makes sense that damage mitigation for shield vehicles should come from regeneration, while armor vehicles should rely on EHP for damage mitigation. Low EHP should have high regeneration and vice versa. However, armor vehicles get better regeneration than shield. Their reps never get disrupted and even two basic heavy reps are comparable to a shield tank's recharge rate. On top of that they have higher base EHP. Sure, shield vehicles get free regeneration while armor has to spend slots to gain regeneration, but shield vehicles have to spend slots to gain HP while armor does not, so I think that balances out. Armor vehicles can rep through small amounts of DPS while shield vehicles cannot because their recharge is disrupted. Armor vehicles can sit there and absorb that DPS, while shield vehicles are forced to run away at the slightest presence of DPS, otherwise their shield will slowly get chipped away. Also, I'd like a skill that gives 5% to recharge rate per level to be comparable to armor's 5% to armor rep efficacy per level. I'd also like to see the return of shield recharge modules (both shield rechargers and power diagnostic units) as they'd be more useful now than in 1.6. 25% to at least 168 hp/s is a lot more useful than 25% to 22 hp/s. I really want to see fits based on recharge viable instead of the current meta of stacking extenders and hardeners. I also want to see armor fits based on plates and hardeners instead of stacking reps, but I'm not an expert on armor to say anything on that. Address the fact that a shield vehicle dual tanks (plates in the lows / reps) then we can talk. Shield vehicles are already, in my opinion, stronger than armor vehicles due to this fact. Plus, considering my time as a forge gunner (haven't touched my tanks yet), armor is MUCH easier for me to forge gun and kill, as compared to the gunnlogi that seems to never die, via hardeners, maneuverability (agility), decent shield regen (it's not as bad as you make it out to be), and high CPU/PG values that allow for dual tanking. And plates and hardeners?? Why? Do you want to further cripple armor tanks! Not every shield vehicle dual tanks. My Gunnlogi after XT-201 missiles, two 20GJ particle accelerators, and complex high modules barely has any fitting left. It's only enough for some chassis upgrades which require minimal amounts of CPU which also probably won't make a return for a while. Just because some dual tank doesn't mean everyone's else needs to suffer. Also let them dual tank! They sacrifice shield for armor! Just because it's a shield tank doesn't mean armor modules cost zero fitting. The reason you're able to kill armor tanks better is because they are fit for regen while shield tanks are fit for HP. I'm sure it'd be the other way around if armor tanks fit for HP and shield fit for regen. Also your forge gun is bonused against armor. You didn't understand my point of having armor tanks fit plates and/or hardeners. They need to be tweaked to become more appealing than they are currently. Armor's main defense should be in having high amounts of HP that regen slowly. I could easily imagine a Madrugar with 7000+ armor with 125 armor/sec and a hardener. That should be viable. All I'm saying is that armor vehicles with one armor rep should be viable and shield vehicles without extenders should also be viable. I know you want variety. Here's variety. Regen or EHP tanking for both shield and armor vehicles? Because currently most of what I see on the field are EHP tanked shield vehicles and regen tanked armor vehicles. Armor vehicles prefer reps because of their high base armor and shield vehicles prefer extenders due to their low base shield. The end result is that there is little variety. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Harpyja Legio DXIV 1921	Posted - 2014.06.24 02:42:00 - [4] - Quote Bump "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds