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Meee One
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
384
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Posted - 2014.02.23 10:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
...to receive active scan results.
Let's be honest,regardless of what snipers say,sniper rifles are OP. They will claim that 3 shots is too many.
Well,i believe such a godly weapon should have drawbacks. There are 0 drawbacks currently,regardless of what snipers say,we face-to-face infantry know the truth.
Why should such a cowardly play style be rewarded for a frontline mercs job? Getting the perks of a scan for easy kills all while the merc that scanned can die in combat.
There is 0 defense for easymode OHK potential weapons.
This would negate any potential scan results from any form of active scanner,even if the sniper is the one doing the scan.
Only users lose drugs.
Time wounds all heels.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
5054
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Posted - 2014.02.23 11:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meee One wrote:...to receive active scan results.
Let's be honest,regardless of what snipers say,sniper rifles are OP. They will claim that 3 shots is too many.
Well,i believe such a godly weapon should have drawbacks. There are 0 drawbacks currently,regardless of what snipers say,we face-to-face infantry know the truth.
Why should such a cowardly play style be rewarded for a frontline mercs job? Getting the perks of a scan for easy kills all while the merc that scanned can die in combat.
There is 0 defense for easymode OHK potential weapons.
This would negate any potential scan results from any form of active scanner,even if the sniper is the one doing the scan.
I find it somewhat amusing that everyone on the forums complains that snipers don't benefit anything to the team and you're sitting here wanting to neuter them of the ability to help out their team.
It is harder to be a sniper in Dust 514 than most other games, what with the unalterable zoom mechanics and requirement of crouching to get a steady shot. That right there makes them entirely vulnerable to other snipers, railguns and even some eagle eyed forge gunners. There are options available to you for taking them out and they are -not- the problem people make them out to be.
And comments like: "Let's be honest,regardless of what snipers say,sniper rifles are OP." is automatically setting yourself up for being considered a troll and your claims/requests immediately dismissed.
Pick up a sniper rifle and shoot back if it's so easy.
Useful Links
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Mahal Daj
Mahal Tactical Enterprises
20
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Posted - 2014.02.23 16:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Snipers are insanely important to the flow of battle, and the maps are designed to accommodate snipers to create "areas of opportunity" (to recycle the 'waves of opportunity' like term). Without their involvement, you see infantry striding over the fields, with good snipers in place, infantry is suppressed and has to move intelligently.
If you've ever played a game you really enjoyed, it was probably because you had a team-focused sniper. If you've played a game you hated, it's because the Red's had that sniper ally.
This game is intended for very intricate and balanced team play, and snipers are hindered by the terrain more than anything else. If this change were to be implemented, it would shift the favor from any team-player over to coordinated squads using Mic's... and that's the real cause of proto-stomping.
Boost your squad's points by 40%, learn to use the Squad Wheel!
I provide training: 1M isk: 90 Minutes of Basic Command
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
759
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Posted - 2014.02.23 17:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Moar tears Meee One? Come on, you want to actively discourage people against using a sniper rifle be proactive about it, find them and kill them, don't feed the well of tears.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1310
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Posted - 2014.02.23 19:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm with Aeon on this one. As it currently stands the issue with sniper rifles isn't their killing potential, its the fact that once equipped they don't do enough to support the team or even squad. Snipers are too independent. Additionally their risk reward ratio is all messed up thanks to their ability to hide in the redline.
Snipers need to be forced out of the redline to increase their risk but then given more team focused ways to earn rewards. Nerfing their weapon and/or their ability to see targets does nothing towards either of these ends.
Fun > Realism
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Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine
138
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Posted - 2014.02.23 20:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Redline needs to go. Problem solved.
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
5062
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Posted - 2014.02.23 21:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:I'm with Aeon on this one. As it currently stands the issue with sniper rifles isn't their killing potential, its the fact that once equipped they don't do enough to support the team or even squad. Snipers are too independent. Additionally their risk reward ratio is all messed up thanks to their ability to hide in the redline.
Snipers need to be forced out of the redline to increase their risk but then given more team focused ways to earn rewards. Nerfing their weapon and/or their ability to see targets does nothing towards either of these ends.
Bah. This makes logical sense until you consider what it's like for the team being red-lined. I'll never fail to be amused at players who say things like "Get out of the redline you ****ies!" or "****ing redline cowards" when the clone counts are something akin to 140 vs 25.
Map design doesn't really support any way for snipers -to- benefit their team and in some maps there aren't any spots that are worth a damn outside of the redline (Ashland point in case). More so, newer maps (inspired by community feedback/fear suh as this thread) almost completely nullify snipers as a playstyle with their large, flat expanses and no opportunity to cover objectives; just areas and paths where players will likely never go. This isn't necessarily bad as long as this style of maps aren't continuous - otherwise the sniper rifle may as well be removed from the game (something I am starkly against, we've already lost enough content).
This is simply a problem we as the community will have to endure until Skirmish 3.0 is implemented and supports a forward momentum for attackers akin to Crater Lake in which the redline was never a factor because of the winding map style and complete lack of reason to be in a certain area after the frontline/objective has moved forward. More on that in this video from 2011.
Useful Links
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Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2014.02.23 21:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:I'm with Aeon on this one. As it currently stands the issue with sniper rifles isn't their killing potential, its the fact that once equipped they don't do enough to support the team or even squad. Snipers are too independent. Additionally their risk reward ratio is all messed up thanks to their ability to hide in the redline.
Snipers need to be forced out of the redline to increase their risk but then given more team focused ways to earn rewards. Nerfing their weapon and/or their ability to see targets does nothing towards either of these ends.
Adding incentives is nice but I get the impression most people (some snipers included) don't actually understand the role CCP has fashioned and how well balanced it actually is. You're not going to wrack up kills and WP as a sniper unless the enemy team is too stupid/lazy to hunt you down and, again, too stupid/lazy to be aware of their environment.
That said - snipers don't kill pad (try it yourself - to get a wealth of targets means you're in range of someone's combat rifle OR the enemy team is idiotically sitting still in the wide open). Snipers control the field, mostly by fear ironically. Here's how I work as a sniper for my team:
1) I find a place to hide out - I don't redline because my aim is not good over 200m usually. What's more, most redline spots that hide you can't see around capture points...so no utility for the team. Lastly, anti-snipers look at the red-line for scouts that are speed-hacking...and find you. Sitting. Very. Still. Not good for your health.
2) My job is three-fold:
A) Kill people (force reduction) - no different from frontline, less risk but far more difficult to accomplish with lower target saturation and much more difficult target hits. Significant SP and arguably isk is needed for an effective sniper setup to consistently net kills, not assists. Head shots are rare - stand still and I might get it. All snipers complain about hit detection and such...that's for another thread.
B) Wound people (force reduction) - it takes me one hit on good days for a scout, two to three for a medium, and I almost never kill a heavy. That said, EVEN WITHOUT A KILL that dude I hit is weakened and running into my team, making him easier to kill. Assist for me (yay!) and the team has an easier time holding ground. Do you want to fight a heavy with or without shields? Yeah - I thought so.
C) FEAR FACTOR (and why I love sniping) - what do you do when you get hit and nobody is in sight? "ERMERGURD! SNIPER!" and you run for cover. I don't get a kill if you're semi-quick and you live. But what does that mean for my team? You didn't run into battle...so you didn't hurt them, and now four guys storming my team just became three. If I'm lucky you run around like a fool and I get a kill - usually I don't. But what does happen is you're alone when my team cleans up the guys YOU were supposed to support but ran away instead. Then they find you, alone, 50% shields or less...who is the coward now?
Force Reduction a la Fear.
This is what makes me, as a sniper, a valuable team asset and force multiplier. As for removing a sniper? Get over yourself and come find me in a scout suit...or heavy suit as one dude did (that ended badly for me...). Will you get less kills? Yup - you're looking for me instead of fighting. Will I die? Almost certainly - I'm a sniper with all dmg mods. No tank. My best defense up close is that wickedly OP...smg. Oops. So you could argue snipers help a team a fourth way - forcing the enemy team to dedicate a player, maybe more, to anti-sniping / sniper hunting.
Point I'm making? We support teams a hell of a lot more than that idiot running into the bunker gun blazing and wasting a clone and maybe denting one guy's shields. Play a sniper and you'll discover you're that guardian angel nobody knows exists except when you get a kill - assists aren't listed accept when YOU die and you invariably assume the guy you just killed at 0% shields was fighting one of your bros a moment ago...not 'sniped' down to size to help you.
Your welcome. Now please post on the forums about a real problem - I recommend equipment's unreal saturation and spam rates due to ease of fitting and utility. (20 Uplinks in one room? Schweet! I just got 100 WP for one grenade! Woo!)
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
239
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Posted - 2014.02.23 21:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aerius Corius 2) My job is three-fold:
A) Kill people (force reduction) - no different from frontline, less risk but far more difficult to accomplish with lower target saturation and much more difficult target hits. Significant SP and arguably isk is needed for an effective sniper setup to consistently net kills, not assists. Head shots are rare - stand still and I might get it. All snipers complain about hit detection and such...that's for another thread.
B) Wound people (force reduction) - it takes me one hit on good days for a scout, two to three for a medium, and I almost never kill a heavy. That said, EVEN WITHOUT A KILL that dude I hit is weakened and running into my team, making him easier to kill. Assist for me (yay!) and the team has an easier time holding ground. Do you want to fight a heavy with or without shields? Yeah - I thought so.
C) FEAR FACTOR (and why I love sniping) - what do you do when you get hit and nobody is in sight? "ERMERGURD! SNIPER!" and you run for cover. I don't get a kill if you're semi-quick and you live. But what does that mean for my team? You didn't run into battle...so you didn't hurt them, and now four guys storming my team just became three. If I'm lucky you run around like a fool and I get a kill - usually I don't. But what does happen is you're alone when my team cleans up the guys YOU were supposed to support but ran away instead. Then they find you, alone, 50% shields or less...who is the coward now?
[u wrote:Force Reduction a la Fear.[/u]
This is what makes me, as a sniper, a valuable team asset and force multiplier. As for removing a sniper? Get over yourself and come find me in a scout suit...or heavy suit as one dude did (that ended badly for me...). Will you get less kills? Yup - you're looking for me instead of fighting. Will I die? Almost certainly - I'm a sniper with all dmg mods. No tank. My best defense up close is that wickedly OP...smg. Oops. So you could argue snipers help a team a fourth way - forcing the enemy team to dedicate a player, maybe more, to anti-sniping / sniper hunting.
Point I'm making? We support teams a hell of a lot more than that idiot running into the bunker gun blazing and wasting a clone and maybe denting one guy's shields. Play a sniper and you'll discover you're that guardian angel nobody knows exists except when you get a kill - assists aren't listed accept when YOU die and you invariably assume the guy you just killed at 0% shields was fighting one of your bros a moment ago...not 'sniped' down to size to help you.
Your welcome. Now please post on the forums about a real problem - I recommend equipment's unreal saturation and spam rates due to ease of fitting and utility. (20 Uplinks in one room? Schweet! I just got 100 WP for one grenade! Woo!)
Problem is that, while all valid points, is hard to put into a point system. Which creates the illusion you are not being very productive and prevents people from being able to easily recognize good snipers from bad ones. |
Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2014.02.23 22:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:
Problem is that, while all valid points, is hard to put into a point system. Which creates the illusion you are not being very productive and prevents people from being able to easily recognize good snipers from bad ones.
You are absolutely correct. In higher-end squads that communicate (i.e. mics) snipers are much more well known if they speak up because they can and do provide valuable intel having such a large field of view usually. Again, though, no points.
My first suggestion is to list assists under kills in smaller print (the window size for kills needs to remain unchanged to prevent cluttering). As it stands, you can't see who assisted you - only who assisted the guy that killed you. This is a basic improvement that doesn't change gameplay, just available information. Until the killboard my teams rarely know I existed - and then see me ranked #12 to #8 or so...low WP, but I apparently killed somebody?
Another form of 'informing' the masses could be to list the favored weapon on the killboard itself - many out there wonder how SuperMan123 or w/e is killing others so quickly...as a sniper, unless I watch who is killing who (I don't...I'm watching the field), the killboard doesn't explain why that guy had so many kills. This also shows how snipers were helping with actual dmg...not just WP, which is anything from my signature (a grenade on equipment) to raw kills.
There have been suggestions of enabling snipers to "lock on" to a target with a long-range, single person scanner that takes time to charge and use (like a five second lock) that would then enable potential scanner assists also. This is a development issue and likely won't come anytime soon if at all...sniping isn't broken, knowledge of how it helps is broken.
Camera Drones (another form of intel/scan assist) is a thread somewhere...I doubt this will come to be simply due to programming costs. That and, as a sniper, I feel this could be OP and detract from the core gameplay of sitting still, hidden, and making each shot count across minutes not seconds.
Listing who captures an object could also help - I do take points at times because only I defended it against those two capture-spamming scouts, then retook it. This shows the guy getting sniper kills is also contributing other ways. This particularly happens a lot in 5-point skirmishes where I and maybe one other sniper or scout protect an outlying point while the main body of the team slugs it out in the interior buildings and their capture points (where I can't help a lot).
Edit: Did the quote wrong - oops.
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
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Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
0
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Posted - 2014.02.23 22:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aerius Corius wrote:[quote=Texs Red] Listing who captures an object could also help - I do take points at times because only I defended it against those two capture-spamming scouts, then retook it. This shows the guy getting sniper kills is also contributing other ways. This particularly happens a lot in 5-point skirmishes where I and maybe one other sniper or scout protect an outlying point while the main body of the team slugs it out in the interior buildings and their capture points (where I can't help a lot).
This is actually a problem certain types of scouts face - and will face more with the new suit mechanics and equipment coming in 1.8, so they also could benefit from this. Many players wonder why Dude123 had 800 WP and only two kills. Scouts form another very valuable role that only needs one player to be effective - capture spamming, equipment destruction, behind-enemy-lines installation captures all are helpful.
As a sniper I often snipe from inside enemy lines after taking their CRUs and other installations. More WP for me, and it restricts enemy movement...making them more predictable and, thus, easier for me to setup a good spot from which to resume sniping (they're all going to rush to that CRU when the last uplink fails and they have to spawn from the red-zone). Showing "Aerius Corius captured Enemy Supply Depot" is just another form of informing the team how its individual members are helping.
Would be hella helpful for identifying potential new squad mates and even recruits for the corp. Any leader can agree on that!
Edit: For those fearful of enemy reprisal (i.e. the enemy team decides to hunt just you because you're the blablabla taking all their installations), you could have captures displayed only to your team and the enemy team just see the usual "Enemy has captured XYZ". Some people are finicky about that - as a sniper, I'm used to being hunted intentionally so it doesn't bug me.
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
239
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 22:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Another problem too, is lack to EWAR. Which I could see a sniper having great value in.
Imagine this:
A minmatar sniper with his precision rifle spots an enemy heavy moving across a field. He pulls out his Target Painter equipment and tags the enemy, now he and his team mates can see the outline of said heavy through walls for a minute. Should anyone else kill the target he gets 25 WP - EWAR assist, but he wants to kill so he takes his shot and wounds him. His squad moves in and finishes the job so he gets 25 WP + 25 WP kill assist.
OR
A Caldari scout sniper is pinned down by an enemy heavy with a sniper rifle. The first shot almost killed him but he managed to duck behind cover. He knows he can't go head-on with the enemy sniper having his location in his sights so he needs to reposition himself. Pulling out his ECM jammer, quickly pops out, and jams the heavy's sensors so he can no longer see the blue and red IFF chevrons above other players. The scout then slinks over to a new corner of the building where the heavy will be unlikely to tell the scout from the shadow of the building and begins to put round after round into the confused heavy. The heavy has to much eHP though and retreats but, without the ability to tell friend from foe, runs into allied blue berries who finish the job. 25 WP - EWAR assist + 25 WP kill assist.
Doesn't solve the fear factor problem but at least its something right? |
Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
762
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 23:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Another problem too, is lack to EWAR. Which I could see a sniper having great value in.
Imagine this:
A minmatar sniper with his precision rifle spots an enemy heavy moving across a field. He pulls out his Target Painter equipment and tags the enemy, now he and his team mates can see the outline of said heavy through walls for a minute. Should anyone else kill the target he gets 25 WP - EWAR assist, but he wants to kill so he takes his shot and wounds him. His squad moves in and finishes the job so he gets 25 WP + 25 WP kill assist.
OR
A Caldari scout sniper is pinned down by an enemy heavy with a sniper rifle. The first shot almost killed him but he managed to duck behind cover. He knows he can't go head-on with the enemy sniper having his location in his sights so he needs to reposition himself. Pulling out his ECM jammer, quickly pops out, and jams the heavy's sensors so he can no longer see the blue and red IFF chevrons above other players. The scout then slinks over to a new corner of the building where the heavy will be unlikely to tell the scout from the shadow of the building and begins to put round after round into the confused heavy. The heavy has to much eHP though and retreats but, without the ability to tell friend from foe, runs into allied blue berries who finish the job. 25 WP - EWAR assist + 25 WP kill assist.
Doesn't solve the fear factor problem but at least its something right? This is definitely something that would improve the game a considerable amount. Customization of equipment other than reps and rezes is something I would gladly see.
Aerius Corius wrote:Listing who captures an object could also help - I do take points at times because only I defended it against those two capture-spamming scouts, then retook it. This shows the guy getting sniper kills is also contributing other ways. This particularly happens a lot in 5-point skirmishes where I and maybe one other sniper or scout protect an outlying point while the main body of the team slugs it out in the interior buildings and their capture points (where I can't help a lot).
This has been suggested before, and I agree, it would make doing any job in a battle more rewarding to see your contributions to battle. For instance, the logi bro who runs around hacking, dropping uplinks and being where the enemy isn't to provide safe spawns and ninja hacks benefits the team more than the assault spawning at a CRU to be spawn farmed.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Derpty Derp
It's All Gone Derp
34
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just stop the bastards camping the red zone... Why should I have to fight with the glitchy redzone timer everytime I want to kill them... Don't go telling me to pull out a sniper to take them, I would if they weren't shooting out of their hair behind a small mountain. |
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
1791
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Posted - 2014.02.24 00:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
3 shots= whole clip
That's if you land your WHOLE CLIP on a target that's jumping and running because their getting shot at, not to mention that more often then not, your target is SO tiny, many say just a few pixels wide, And any closer and Mid range weapons just **** snipers.
Snipers are fine. I can accept being killed by a sniper, because its usually on 1 or 2 deaths a match.
If your upset a sniper popped your proto, realize this.
Your painted dark black, worth a ton of money, and Making the guys with lower tier gear on your team's life really difficult, maybe you should stop standing i the middle of the road thinking proto stops everything. Because nerfing a item because of your ineptitude at shooters is going to ruin it for the rest of the community.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1314
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Posted - 2014.02.24 03:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aerius Corius wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:I'm with Aeon on this one. As it currently stands the issue with sniper rifles isn't their killing potential, its the fact that once equipped they don't do enough to support the team or even squad. Snipers are too independent. Additionally their risk reward ratio is all messed up thanks to their ability to hide in the redline.
Snipers need to be forced out of the redline to increase their risk but then given more team focused ways to earn rewards. Nerfing their weapon and/or their ability to see targets does nothing towards either of these ends. Adding incentives is nice but I get the impression most people (some snipers included) don't actually understand the role CCP has fashioned and how well balanced it actually is. You're not going to wrack up kills and WP as a sniper unless the enemy team is too stupid/lazy to hunt you down and, again, too stupid/lazy to be aware of their environment. That said - snipers don't kill pad (try it yourself - to get a wealth of targets means you're in range of someone's combat rifle OR the enemy team is idiotically sitting still in the wide open). Snipers control the field, mostly by fear ironically. Here's how I work as a sniper for my team: 1) I find a place to hide out - I don't redline because my aim is not good over 200m usually. What's more, most redline spots that hide you can't see around capture points...so no utility for the team. Lastly, anti-snipers look at the red-line for scouts that are speed-hacking...and find you. Sitting. Very. Still. Not good for your health. 2) My job is three-fold: A) Kill people (force reduction) - no different from frontline, less risk but far more difficult to accomplish with lower target saturation and much more difficult target hits. Significant SP and arguably isk is needed for an effective sniper setup to consistently net kills, not assists. Head shots are rare - stand still and I might get it. All snipers complain about hit detection and such...that's for another thread. B) Wound people (force reduction) - it takes me one hit on good days for a scout, two to three for a medium, and I almost never kill a heavy. That said, EVEN WITHOUT A KILL that dude I hit is weakened and running into my team, making him easier to kill. Assist for me (yay!) and the team has an easier time holding ground. Do you want to fight a heavy with or without shields? Yeah - I thought so. C) FEAR FACTOR (and why I love sniping) - what do you do when you get hit and nobody is in sight? "ERMERGURD! SNIPER!" and you run for cover. I don't get a kill if you're semi-quick and you live. But what does that mean for my team? You didn't run into battle...so you didn't hurt them, and now four guys storming my team just became three. If I'm lucky you run around like a fool and I get a kill - usually I don't. But what does happen is you're alone when my team cleans up the guys YOU were supposed to support but ran away instead. Then they find you, alone, 50% shields or less...who is the coward now? Force Reduction a la Fear.This is what makes me, as a sniper, a valuable team asset and force multiplier. As for removing a sniper? Get over yourself and come find me in a scout suit...or heavy suit as one dude did (that ended badly for me...). Will you get less kills? Yup - you're looking for me instead of fighting. Will I die? Almost certainly - I'm a sniper with all dmg mods. No tank. My best defense up close is that wickedly OP...smg. Oops. So you could argue snipers help a team a fourth way - forcing the enemy team to dedicate a player, maybe more, to anti-sniping / sniper hunting. Point I'm making? We support teams a hell of a lot more than that idiot running into the bunker gun blazing and wasting a clone and maybe denting one guy's shields. Play a sniper and you'll discover you're that guardian angel nobody knows exists except when you get a kill - assists aren't listed accept when YOU die and you invariably assume the guy you just killed at 0% shields was fighting one of your bros a moment ago...not 'sniped' down to size to help you. Your welcome. Now please post on the forums about a real problem - I recommend equipment's unreal saturation and spam rates due to ease of fitting and utility. (20 Uplinks in one room? Schweet! I just got 100 WP for one grenade! Woo!)
I'm sorry to say that all three of the things you have listed as your role are performed better by other play styles. Every other class is better at killing (force reduction), injuring, and creating fear (I'm a hell of a lot more scared by the sound of a shotgun than I am by the sound of a sniper rifle). Heck, I'd venture to say that I am rarely even worried about snipers even if they hit me. They don't dissuade me from going anywhere since they are unlikely to kill me as I move about erratically. Even calling out targets and noticing troop movements is a role better carried out by others. An active scanner is much more informative than someone gibbering at me since I can see it with my own eyes both through walls and on my radar. Currently snipers have no role.
That being said I'd like to see snipers have an actually useful role on the battlefield. I'd love it if snipers could mark targets for their squad when ADSing (just for an example) or get some bonus to using specialized equipment (radar jammars, drop-uplink interuption field generators, etc...).
As it stands, regardless of how much you protest, even the best snipers in the game (which you are not one of) are little more than an annoyance to other players are far from a major asset to their team.
Fun > Realism
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Royalgiedro
Nor Clan Combat Logistics
0
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Posted - 2014.02.24 08:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
"I'm sorry to say that all three of the things you have listed as your role are performed better by other play styles. Every other class is better at killing (force reduction), injuring, and creating fear (I'm a hell of a lot more scared by the sound of a shotgun than I am by the sound of a sniper rifle). Heck, I'd venture to say that I am rarely even worried about snipers even if they hit me. They don't dissuade me from going anywhere since they are unlikely to kill me as I move about erratically. Even calling out targets and noticing troop movements is a role better carried out by others. An active scanner is much more informative than someone gibbering at me since I can see it with my own eyes both through walls and on my radar. Currently snipers have no role.
As it stands, regardless of how much you protest, even the best snipers in the game (which you are not one of) are little more than an annoyance to other players are far from a major asset to their team.[/quote]"
I'm going to start out by saying that I do snipe on certain maps. I'm not trying to hide that I snipe. However, as a sniper AND a ground unit I can give you my unbiased opinion. Snipers are not OP.
I run the best possible setup, minus 2 proficiency levels, and I can only one shot militia and scout suits (body shot). As a sniper, you can see the battlefield from a different perspective. You generally have a POV that involves looking down at the enemy. This allows you to see over walls and report the exact health and suit types of enemies, much more helpful than just a scanner. You also can point out enemies that are further away than your scanner can cover. Also, I don't know about you, but 400-900 damage to enemies that are hauled up in a corner repeatedly is more successful that trying to throw a grenade and dying before you can release it.
Yet there are those snipers that just shoot a couple people and don't help their team as much as they would on the ground.
PS: Just in pure kills, I average 20+ kills a match when I snipe. I don't care what you say, that is beneficial. |
Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
7
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Posted - 2014.02.25 01:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote: I'm sorry to say that all three of the things you have listed as your role are performed better by other play styles. Every other class is better at killing (force reduction), injuring, and creating fear (I'm a hell of a lot more scared by the sound of a shotgun than I am by the sound of a sniper rifle). Heck, I'd venture to say that I am rarely even worried about snipers even if they hit me. They don't dissuade me from going anywhere since they are unlikely to kill me as I move about erratically. Even calling out targets and noticing troop movements is a role better carried out by others. An active scanner is much more informative than someone gibbering at me since I can see it with my own eyes both through walls and on my radar. Currently snipers have no role.
That being said I'd like to see snipers have an actually useful role on the battlefield. I'd love it if snipers could mark targets for their squad when ADSing (just for an example) or get some bonus to using specialized equipment (radar jammars, drop-uplink interuption field generators, etc...).
As it stands, regardless of how much you protest, even the best snipers in the game (which you are not one of) are little more than an annoyance to other players are far from a major asset to their team.
I'm sorry to say you're wanting an ewar class other than a sniper for what it's intended to do...snipe. Being scared of a shotgun means you're either: A) Dead...because you got blown in the back, or B) I'm not sure...I can't say I've ever heard of a frontline running in fear from a shotgun since they rarely survive and shotguns have low range. You totally missed how the fear factor works - its not so much actual fear as forcing the enemy into a less than ideal situation: 1) Running for cover and thus not supporting his squad 2)Running for cover and not capturing that point because he assumes a threat is near and will kill him while he tries (so he starts looking), buying time for the sniper or team members to properly defend...which is where I say, "need help defending Alpha" and you come help because you don't need to see it on your radar you're not a blind and deaf idiot. 3) Rather than sniping you where you're too busy fighting that aforementioned shotgun, he looks for me because I'm nailing him...and keeping him off you, regardless of whether or not I kill him.
By the by...NONE of the other weapons (let alone class styles) can do those three. ALL of those happen, everyday, and result in improved chances of (and sometimes even clench) victory. Am I annoying? Sure - whatever you say hoss. Did I help my team win? Yup.
Rail rifles and installation guns are about the only other weapons beyond snipers that can send a guy running for cover because...you know, he can't immediately fight back. That's the point - with that HUGE advantage (for the sniper) comes the HUGE disadvantages of small ammo capacity, slow fire rate, worthless up close fighting, and in order to make the rifle good at its job, slots dedicated to dmg...not survival. Without wep upgrades, a sniper rifle (regardless of quality) will automatically need at least one more shot to succeed...which is precious time for the enemy to move out of sight or, in the case of anti-snipers, locate you and force you to move.
Please consider that others enjoy the playstyle of sniping (like myself) and am ok that we're not the 100% efficienct way to handle X, Y, or Z. I'm the best for handling troops barreling down on a given area in open fields where I will commit more damage and kills than you by virtue of my gun reaching further than yours...and when what's left gets close, my trusty (and ******, yes) SMG will be right there to help you. No suit is perfect at all roles - likewise, there is nothing wrong with a playstyle (a specific weapon in this case) being good at ONE thing.
You attack the weapon's capability and overlook the capability of the player's fitting and play style - for example, I hold and recapture abandoned points in skirmish maps when you and your 'bros' haul off to take a new point. It's called teamwork by some, being responsible by others, and our more hotheaded snipers call it cleaning up after you (and sometimes before).
News Flash: A HMG is also better by your standards than a shotgun, AR, CR, Knives...you get the point. Pretty sure the majority of the 20+ kill guys in a match I see are using heavies...that's the nature of the weapon and its utility. Said heavy is also slow as hell at taking points, dealing with afar targets (including enemy snipers picking you off since snipers are, you're sorry to say, apparently not good at anything in particular and only annoying when they force you off the game plan va redirection), and protecting multiple areas via long distance force projection and, vice versa, force reduction.
TL;DR
Snipers have a perfectly defined role - people, like yourself, don't know what that role is or feel it's "not good enough". I'm sorry to hear that, but don't shoot me out of the saddle for not doing it your way. Just don't have snipers on your team - instead of posting on the forums that the class is broken (which it isn't) - and the sniper community will be happy to 'annoy' away. You'll discover snipers do not just counter snipers...or you wouldn't be complaining on the forums, would you?
We must be doing something - annoyances do kill, after all.
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
|
Yeeeuuuupppp
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
122
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's a sniper rifle, outs suppose to be powerful. But the tunnel vision is a killer for those who don't snipe in the red line
My Minnie is friendly.. don't worry, I don't bite. I slash.
Novice incubus pilot.
Feel the wrath of my troll.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1320
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Wow that is such a wall of crap that I don't know where to begin.
Yes, the sniper can do all of the things you have listed. The issue is that it does them poorly. I believe that I said that pretty clearly in my earlier post. I was not pointing out that you are useless simply that the role you envision for yourself on the battlefield is better filled by people running other weapons. The sniper is a role that does note excel in any particular area of the battle field. Its a role that is intended to be specialized but is infact out classed.
What is the point of a specialist role if other roles perform its specialty better.
As it stands the only advantage a sniper has over other roles is that by virtue of having huge range it keeps its user from loosing suits and clones. This is not something that sould be a selling point. Sure you won't die often but if you never capture a point, can't kill as well as other classes, provide poorer intel than an active scanner, and can't even defend a letter than there really isn't a point to having high survivability now is there.
Sure you may make other classes move towards cover but I'd like to tell you that any weapon can do that. Unfortunately because of the pathetic mag size of the sniper rifle, and most of the variants' low rates of fire you can't keep a target suppressed and in cover once you get them there. Any of the rifles will actually do a better job of this (I feel like I've said this before some how).
News Flash: You don't seem to understand either my standards or my point. I'm calling for CCP to fundamentally rethink the way snipers are implemented to give your clearly much loved class an actual role on the battlefields of this game. Perhaps you haven't noticed that none of the major corps have included snipers in their PC teams for quite a long time? This is because of their limited ability to affect a match. They are specialized, sure, but as I've said time and again they perform their specialization more poorly than other classes, making them dead weight on the team.
I'm trying to promote changes to your choosen role that will make it an asset to a team. I don't see why you feel that this is such a particular threat to your personal play style. If anything I am asking CCP to give you ways to enhance it, which you would be free to ignore if you so choose.
Fun > Realism
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Ku Shala
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
885
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 12:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Take the sway from sniper rifles while walking then we can start to complain about snipers not being 10m from the objective. then take the input lag from kb/m.
also the uplinks placed at each objective where only a dropship can fly....... placed those there before I pulled out the sniper gun. if the Blues are not hacking then the sniper is just wasting ammo
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä
The States Necromancer
Scan Attempt Prevented
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Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
18
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Posted - 2014.02.25 21:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd ask you to consider what a "sniper" is in the real world and use your comparisons in that context...because the only way to make a sniper 'better' than other classes at a specific role is to give them some rather unbalanced gameplay mechanics. 1) One Shot Kills. Always. Full Zoom, Excellent Sight Mechanics. 2) Cloaking and/or Significantly more Cover Options (possibly provided through scout suits) 3) Ordinance Targeting (already available via Orbitals if a leader)
That's a sniper in a nutshell. Ewar capabilities don't change that - a sniper with scan bonuses or ewar will still be less great than another class by virtue of all the reasons you listed unless forced via fittings (see: cloak modules and scout suits in 1.8). If that is your proposition, forced balancing, I can understand that - but most of the player base won't like it. Snipers are an annoyance, that's what they do if not given Point #1 above as in the real world. But if they are, the QQ threads on the Thale will pale in comparison to THAT sort of change...even snipers know that won't be good for the game (it's hard to wrack up WP in a game people quit over bad mechanics).
Snipers, as I recall saying, are only supposed to be truly good at one thing over any other class or playstyle: force reduction via long distance, low risk, high power attacks that can't happen frequently. Low ammo capacity both mag and overall, necessary skill shots, and low defense all play to this currently. I'm totally cool with you wanting more stuff for me to get paid more - but I worry about forum warriors screwing the original concept of a sniper for something else that, well, isn't a sniper.
So, I suppose what I'm trying to get across is all you've done is explained: 1) Snipers are not team assets because other classes do any of their functions better...thus rendering them obsolete. 2) Changing the sniper class to be beneficial through mechanics other than its core weapon and function - sniping.
I've explained how, in point 1, snipers have the range and battlefield knowledge many classes can't compete with - but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree it seems. They do defend points. They do capture them. They do revive team mates (I'm able to fit a std injector because when has a grenade ever helped a sniper?). They do provide cover fire in ways other classes cannot - notably at range where reprisal is virtually impossible, enabling FORCED enemy movement as opposed to retaliation and a small delay. Again, I think we just fundamentally disagree - and that's cool, we don't exactly have metrics to work with.
In point 2, I've explained how the only way to make a sniper good at its defined role - KILLING PEOPLE AT HUGE RANGES - will require unbalanced mechanics or simply rendering the class as it is, useful for unique circumstances over other classes.
So - what is your proposed solution to making snipers 'worthwhile' assets while retaining the core gameplay - single shot massive dmg, undetected, at vast ranges?
It's not a troll question and I encourage all readers to answer. Mobius IS right that at higher levels of gameplay, snipers are currently under utilized (or not at all) in favor of more straightforward classes. -Is this because of map styles? (It has been complained much that snipers have few options in geography) -IS the damage of a sniper rifle (Thales is apparently spot on - but I mean others) too low such that body count, and thus utility of the class, is diminished? -Are their mechanics that could be introduced to enable a stronger, much higher kill rate rifle, that are balanced? EX: 20 second reload? Four second shot Rate of Fire? Visual of the shot (currently you can't see a sniper shot visually - only when it hits a person or environment) like a tracer so its easier to locate a sniper (like forge guns)? If so, back to the above question - does that balance the increase in damage?
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1321
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
That is a fair question. How can we make snipers an asset in their core role while still making it fun for all the other classes. Snipers in real life aren't designed to be fair or let their enemies have fun. This is why we occasionally see players calling the sniper rifle UP; they want a realistic one shot one kill weapon. The down side of this, which you hinted at is that making snipers more powerful would also make it much less fun for every other class.
Others have proposed increasing sniper rifle damade but giving their rounds travel time bullet drop and windage affects. I would have no problem with this at all. A one hit kill sniper rifle that was a challenge to hit with would seem to be more fun for snipers anyway. The only downside is that CCP has already said they have no intention of adding more realistic weapons physics to the game, citing something about hardware constraints. I'm not a programmer so I'm not going to take up the challenge of battling with the devs on that one.
Personally I think adding a constant sway that can only be stopped by holding your mercs breath, an action which would use up stamina, along with increased damage and lengthened reload times would increase the snipers utility at long range killing while still allowing for other pkayers to have a good time.
In both of these cases snipers should light up on the radar of players in a certain radius when they fire. Those guns are loud after all. I feel like there should be skills/equipment to help counter this effect to some extent though.
Additionally I feel that the snipers need to have an increased risk. It is all fine to shoot people from far away but that distance itself should be the only barrier to people attacking you (or height should you get onto a building). The artifical redline stopping players from flanking and killing snipers has got to go. I know it is there to protect spawns. I was there when MCC camping was a very real thing (REs tossed from the MCC netted me many a kill in those matches where my team got redlined) so I'm not proposing a removal of the redline. It would simply be better for everyone if there was more of a reason to not stay in it such not recieving WP or kills while in the redline or a timer that forces you to move out or face clone termination.
I do realize that neither of the weapon modification solutions does anything for increasing the snipers usefulness in high level games. I'll have to think more on that one since you don't like the idea of making the sniper have the additional role of ewar deployment specialist.
Fun > Realism
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Outer Raven
WarRavens League of Infamy
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 06:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:That is a fair question. How can we make snipers an asset in their core role while still making it fun for all the other classes. Snipers in real life aren't designed to be fair or let their enemies have fun. This is why we occasionally see players calling the sniper rifle UP; they want a realistic one shot one kill weapon. The down side of this, which you hinted at is that making snipers more powerful would also make it much less fun for every other class. Others have proposed increasing sniper rifle damade but giving their rounds travel time bullet drop and windage affects. I would have no problem with this at all. A one hit kill sniper rifle that was a challenge to hit with would seem to be more fun for snipers anyway. The only downside is that CCP has already said they have no intention of adding more realistic weapons physics to the game, citing something about hardware constraints. I'm not a programmer so I'm not going to take up the challenge of battling with the devs on that one. Personally I think adding a constant sway that can only be stopped by holding your mercs breath, an action which would use up stamina, along with increased damage and lengthened reload times would increase the snipers utility at long range killing while still allowing for other pkayers to have a good time. In both of these cases snipers should light up on the radar of players in a certain radius when they fire. Those guns are loud after all. I feel like there should be skills/equipment to help counter this effect to some extent though. Additionally I feel that the snipers need to have an increased risk. It is all fine to shoot people from far away but that distance itself should be the only barrier to people attacking you (or height should you get onto a building). The artifical redline stopping players from flanking and killing snipers has got to go. I know it is there to protect spawns. I was there when MCC camping was a very real thing (REs tossed from the MCC netted me many a kill in those matches where my team got redlined) so I'm not proposing a removal of the redline. It would simply be better for everyone if there was more of a reason to not stay in it such not recieving WP or kills while in the redline or a timer that forces you to move out or face clone termination. I do realize that neither of the weapon modification solutions does anything for increasing the snipers usefulness in high level games. I'll have to think more on that one since you don't like the idea of making the sniper have the additional role of ewar deployment specialist. I would except a constant sway or slightly minimalized one if your skilled into the sway reduction. If it incorporated a breathing mechanic that used up stamina. I suggested in previous sniper related threads of using deployable cameras to expand their intel capabilities. Concerning the other poster who mentioned the role of the sniper I can agree with you that the sniper has some already defined roles on the field but they can be further enhanced and accentuated to make the sniper a wanted or even necessary asset in higher tier combat.
Moving onto sniper rifle optimization damage wise a head shot bonus increase to the current multiplier would be a good start. Having variable scope zoom on the rifle and of course render/ hit detection fixes would help. I would also suggest a reduction to the aiming dot since it can be very large in comparison to our targets which makes it light up when the target is actually not hit able (of course if variable scope zoom is brought in this will be a non issue).
Finally more assets to be able to use as both regular infantry and specialized snipers such as
-Binoculars to find targets (also has built in variable zoom)
-New modules to extend our ammo size similar to vehicles
-Deployable cameras (probably will be handled with personal drones once they make an appearance)
-Deployable small turrets
-Single target long range painter
-Smoke bomb
-Frag grenade (scramble visuals, stronger versions can be used the same way against vehicles)
-Poisonous rounds that sap both shield and armor steadily (stronger versions do ithis for a longer duration). Can equipped them to an equipment slot, only have access to 6 and can fire them once chosen on the weapons wheel. Can also be fired from any weapon, these rounds do not cause immediate death nor do they have a high dps when they initially hit targets or stick to targets.
___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________
GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW
¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1554
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 08:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
I find it somewhat amusing that everyone on the forums complains that snipers don't benefit anything to the team and you're sitting here wanting to neuter them of the ability to help out their team.
This pretty much sums up the thread.
No, you can quit whining about snipers. They suck, and the few who can kill you quickly have pretty much busted their asses to get that way.
Much as I love mocking them for being useless (and the majority of them are) they need a place on the battlefield, not to get nerfed because you're pissed off you can't find them. |
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 09:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Outer Raven wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:That is a fair question. How can we make snipers an asset in their core role while still making it fun for all the other classes. Snipers in real life aren't designed to be fair or let their enemies have fun. This is why we occasionally see players calling the sniper rifle UP; they want a realistic one shot one kill weapon. The down side of this, which you hinted at is that making snipers more powerful would also make it much less fun for every other class. Others have proposed increasing sniper rifle damade but giving their rounds travel time bullet drop and windage affects. I would have no problem with this at all. A one hit kill sniper rifle that was a challenge to hit with would seem to be more fun for snipers anyway. The only downside is that CCP has already said they have no intention of adding more realistic weapons physics to the game, citing something about hardware constraints. I'm not a programmer so I'm not going to take up the challenge of battling with the devs on that one. Personally I think adding a constant sway that can only be stopped by holding your mercs breath, an action which would use up stamina, along with increased damage and lengthened reload times would increase the snipers utility at long range killing while still allowing for other pkayers to have a good time. In both of these cases snipers should light up on the radar of players in a certain radius when they fire. Those guns are loud after all. I feel like there should be skills/equipment to help counter this effect to some extent though. Additionally I feel that the snipers need to have an increased risk. It is all fine to shoot people from far away but that distance itself should be the only barrier to people attacking you (or height should you get onto a building). The artifical redline stopping players from flanking and killing snipers has got to go. I know it is there to protect spawns. I was there when MCC camping was a very real thing (REs tossed from the MCC netted me many a kill in those matches where my team got redlined) so I'm not proposing a removal of the redline. It would simply be better for everyone if there was more of a reason to not stay in it such not recieving WP or kills while in the redline or a timer that forces you to move out or face clone termination. I do realize that neither of the weapon modification solutions does anything for increasing the snipers usefulness in high level games. I'll have to think more on that one since you don't like the idea of making the sniper have the additional role of ewar deployment specialist. I would except a constant sway or slightly minimalized one if your skilled into the sway reduction. If it incorporated a breathing mechanic that used up stamina. I suggested in previous sniper related threads of using deployable cameras to expand their intel capabilities. Concerning the other poster who mentioned the role of the sniper I can agree with you that the sniper has some already defined roles on the field but they can be further enhanced and accentuated to make the sniper a wanted or even necessary asset in higher tier combat. Moving onto sniper rifle optimization damage wise a head shot bonus increase to the current multiplier would be a good start. Having variable scope zoom on the rifle and of course render/hit detection fixes would help. I would also suggest a reduction to the aiming dot since it can be very large in comparison to our targets which makes it light up when the target is actually not hitable (of course if variable scope zoom is brought in this will be a non issue). Finally more assets to be able to use as both regular infantry and specialized snipers such as -Binoculars to find targets (also has built in variable zoom) -New modules to extend our ammo size similar to vehicles -Deployable cameras (probably will be handled with personal drones once they make an appearance) -Deployable small turrets -Single target long range precision painter (could just be incorporated into the binoculars) -Smoke bomb -Frag grenade (scramble visuals, stronger versions can be used the same way against vehicles) -Poisonous rounds that sap both shield and armor steadily (stronger versions do ithis for a longer duration). Can equipped them to an equipment slot, only have access to 6 and can fire them once chosen on the weapons wheel. Can also be fired from any weapon, these rounds do not cause immediate death nor do they have a high dps when they initially hit targets or stick to targets.
Again, Outer Raven has summed up the bulk of what us dedicated snipers want in order to enhance our class's utility within a squad. Head shots are the hardest shots to land on constantly moving targets, however, so an increase in base damage would be needed on the SR's for them to be a truly viable threat on the battlefield. Note: the SR, among many weapons, is dependent on damage mods to even make a dent in Uprising's heavily HP tanked suits in its current iteration.
Additionally, as people have said before, we should be able to paint/spot targets for a duration of time and get WP for assists instead of having the crutch that is the Active Scanner. In this way, we'd have an active role in spotting, say a cloaked target, moving down field and the ability for team mates (if not us) to see them and pick them off. Motion detection devices should also be implemented for stationary target radar acquisition so we can further play a supportive role.
I know not all snipers run the scout suit when they snipe, but it is the class that is/was initially tied to being the a Recon class. I'd go even further to say that I'd like to see it become very much like the Infiltrator class in ME3 and PS2, but that's for a different thread.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
254
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 12:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Meee One wrote:...to receive active scan results.
Let's be honest,regardless of what snipers say,sniper rifles are OP. They will claim that 3 shots is too many.
Well,i believe such a godly weapon should have drawbacks. There are 0 drawbacks currently,regardless of what snipers say,we face-to-face infantry know the truth.
Why should such a cowardly play style be rewarded for a frontline mercs job? Getting the perks of a scan for easy kills all while the merc that scanned can die in combat.
There is 0 defense for easymode OHK potential weapons.
This would negate any potential scan results from any form of active scanner,even if the sniper is the one doing the scan.
what sniper rifles need is a skill variable ... bullet velocity and distance. Have the round take a few seconds to traverse the map to target, like it does in almost every other online fps. more specifically like planetside 2.
Best game with a Python:
33kills 1 death (1.6)
24kills 1 death (1.7)
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Mahal Daj
Mahal Tactical Enterprises
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 18:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
This is a very good discussion, but I would like to add that most of these comments are for long-distance snipers and should not universally be applied to all instances of the weapon's usage. particularly discussions of damage and sway.
I'm saying this because there is another danger lurking in the dark... a scout, using primarily knives, and carrying a tactical sniper rifle. You do not want this user to have the weapons/tools you have described.
Another item to consider is new players (poor blueb's) that commonly start as a sniper and move onto the field as they gain experience. They may not be doing much now, but it's a gentle place in harsh world... I commonly play with a player that was a 1/5/0 sniper until she became a 1000+WP/game logibro. If it wasn't for the introduction period (sniping), the advancement and investment (most equipment 3+) may not have been possible.
This is a great discussion, I'm just trying to add a perspective from a "designated marksman" style user. I actually love redline snipers because the maps allow me to get great headshots on them while they look right over me (sorry ;)
edit: If we really wanted to make the presence of snipers benefit known to our team, we could consider giving them a specialized secondary weapon to launch a smoke canister. This could mark enemies, provide cover, and make the sniper's activity more pronounced to the team. You could then give a commission/bonus/whatever to WP earned by other players in the vicinity of the smoke-effect.
Boost your squad's points by 40%, learn to use the Squad Wheel!
I provide training: 1M isk: 90 Minutes of Basic Command
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Outer Raven
WarRavens League of Infamy
181
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mahal Daj wrote:This is a very good discussion, but I would like to add that most of these comments are for long-distance snipers and should not universally be applied to all instances of the weapon's usage. particularly discussions of damage and sway.
I'm saying this because there is another danger lurking in the dark... a scout, using primarily knives, and carrying a tactical sniper rifle. You do not want this user to have the weapons/tools you have described.
Another item to consider is new players (poor blueb's) that commonly start as a sniper and move onto the field as they gain experience. They may not be doing much now, but it's a gentle place in harsh world... I commonly play with a player that was a 1/5/0 sniper until she became a 1000+WP/game logibro. If it wasn't for the introduction period (sniping), the advancement and investment (most equipment 3+) may not have been possible.
This is a great discussion, I'm just trying to add a perspective from a "designated marksman" style user. I actually love redline snipers because the maps allow me to get great headshots on them while they look right over me (sorry ;)
edit: If we really wanted to make the presence of snipers benefit known to our team, we could consider giving them a specialized secondary weapon to launch a smoke canister. This could mark enemies, provide cover, and make the sniper's activity more pronounced to the team. You could then give a commission/bonus/whatever to WP earned by other players in the vicinity of the smoke-effect. Interesting points and I do agree that people running around with sniper rifles as shot guns should never be a thing (hated COD for that). With that being said their is an can be balances applied to keep that less likely from happening. Damage wise the rifle is in a grey area, on one hand currently a headshot damage bonus increase for precision shots would be good if nothing else was to be done to the rifle.
However with the coming damage mod "nerf" for TTK adjustments the alpha damage of the rifle will be greatly hurt since it is with dmg mods that the rifle is even remotely competitive. So when that goes into effect the base damage will need a tweek accordingly or the rifle may go the way of the dodo if it can't pull its weight on the field.
And to your last point on equipment that actively benefits marksmen and their squad I couldn't agree with more. Although I'm not sure if snipers need to be so overly concerned with whether the team can visually identify their contributions, so they don't get flamed against of course. But equipment that can be powerful in the hands of someone with overwatch capabilities such as binoculars would be a benefit to everyone.
___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7132
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Posted - 2014.03.03 21:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
I may hate snipers, especially Thale snipers who kill me a lot, but I don't hate them enough to remove their ability to get scan results.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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