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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1842
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Posted - 2014.02.07 16:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
Also, the Rail Rifle is getting hit with the nerf bat and will have lower damage in 1.8
(You're welcome)
EDIT: Since lots of people aren't reading my later post, this is just one change among many. Details soon.
Not because the RR is getting nerfed, it deserves it, but because of the edit.
Obviously there are some guns that need a nerf, not just the RR, but the AR should definitely not be touched.
There are also some weapons that are in need of a buff. These are the SMG, ion pistol, mass driver, flaylock, and the laser.
As for the weapons that need a nerf, they are the RR, a chiseled nerf to the CR and ScR, bolt pistol, and the magsec smg.
Regardless of what you choose, remember that guns with low range should have the highest DPS, take a good look at the ion pistol vs the bolt or scrambler pistol.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1842
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Posted - 2014.02.07 17:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Smg needs a buff? Your insane.
Incase the magsec isn't nerfed. Magsec has twice the range and like 10-15% more dps. Not available to do math atm.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1842
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Posted - 2014.02.07 17:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Smg needs a buff? Your insane. It's like saying the AR needs a buff. I agree. But I never looked at the Magsec SMG stats. 388 DPS at the base level, compared to the normal SMGs 383? So it has higher DPS and 60% greater optimal range? WTF, developersGǪ do you have any concept of what the word balance means?
I am available to do math now, proto smg has 385 DPS, proto magsec has 423 dps.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1842
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Posted - 2014.02.07 17:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jake Bloodworth wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
Also, the Rail Rifle is getting hit with the nerf bat and will have lower damage in 1.8
(You're welcome)
EDIT: Since lots of people aren't reading my later post, this is just one change among many. Details soon. Not because the RR is getting nerfed, it deserves it, but because of the edit. Obviously there are some guns that need a nerf, not just the RR, but the AR should definitely not be touched. There are also some weapons that are in need of a buff. These are the SMG, ion pistol, mass driver, flaylock, and the laser. All of these suffer from not enough power at range, the smg and the ion pistol suffer from less damage and range than the Caldari counter part and the laser doesn't really do anything... As for the weapons that need a nerf, they are the RR, a chiseled nerf to the CR and ScR, bolt pistol, and the magsec smg. All of these suffer from to much power at range. The Magsec has almost enough dps to rival an AR, in fact a proto magsec smg with 1 damage modifier has enough DPS to equal a duvolle and match it in range. Regardless of what you choose, remember that guns with low range should have the highest DPS, take a good look at the ion pistol vs the bolt or scrambler pistol. Lol, SMG does not need a buff. I would suggest skilling into it first and seeing just how much it wrecks. It's probably the most balanced weapon the game actually.
Sigh... do you people even read? I said the smg vs th magsec... The magsec out dpress and out ranges the smg... and your right it doesn't need a buff, but it will if the magsec comes out with the stats CCP gave.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1842
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Posted - 2014.02.07 17:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ander Thedas wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
Also, the Rail Rifle is getting hit with the nerf bat and will have lower damage in 1.8
(You're welcome)
EDIT: Since lots of people aren't reading my later post, this is just one change among many. Details soon. Not because the RR is getting nerfed, it deserves it, but because of the edit. Obviously there are some guns that need a nerf, not just the RR, but the AR should definitely not be touched. There are also some weapons that are in need of a buff. These are the SMG, ion pistol, mass driver, flaylock, and the laser. All of these suffer from not enough power at range, the smg and the ion pistol suffer from less damage and range than the Caldari counter part and the laser doesn't really do anything... As for the weapons that need a nerf, they are the RR, a chiseled nerf to the CR and ScR, bolt pistol, and the magsec smg. All of these suffer from to much power at range. The Magsec has almost enough dps to rival an AR, in fact a proto magsec smg with 1 damage modifier has enough DPS to equal a duvolle and match it in range. Regardless of what you choose, remember that guns with low range should have the highest DPS, take a good look at the ion pistol vs the bolt or scrambler pistol. Theorycrafting is useful and definitely a big part of the balancing conversation but I wouldn't say something definitively needs a nerf before we actually have a chance to test it out.
Your right but there is a limit to how far this can go. By comparison to the current standard it isn't hard to tell if something will be OP or weak. These new weapons obviously operate exactly the same as what we have based on that it's easy to compare them, now if something completely new was added then I couldn't really say anything. For example the flaylock not many people thought it was going to be OP, same for the RR because nobody knew how much the charge time was going to affect it etc.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1842
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Posted - 2014.02.07 17:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:I am available to do math now, proto smg has 385 DPS, proto magsec has 423 dps.
Unless SMG is getting a nerf in 1.8, proto SMG does 421.6 DPS. Still, that's ridiculous that MagSec beats it. How the hell does CCP think that the weapons with the longest range need the highest DPS? It's justGǪ do they even talk to the people that deal with weapon balance in EVE? Is it absolutely forbidden for people in the office to offer insight to each other?
Six kin smg does 23.1 damage with a rof of 1000, that's 23100 damage per minute, 23100/60 = 385 dps. Unless your math includes weapon proficiency, mine does not in both figures.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1845
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Posted - 2014.02.07 19:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I'm happy with the RR nerf, but I just hope they don't everdo it. While I do agree about the general principle that range and DPS should be inversely proportional, there are factors in play; the SCR for example overheats (often certain death) after 15 quick shots, 23 with maxed out Amarr assaut skill, so I don't think its OP, and the Amarr laser weapon heat buildup reduction bonus seems like its going to be removed. Ion pistol is definitely underpowered, as Arkena Wyrnspire has shown here. Magsec does seem OP from the stats I've seen. At prototype: Magsec DPS: 427.77 Range (optimal-effective): 48-66 SMG DPS: 421.66 Range (optimal-effective): 30-48 Magsec seems to have more range AND more DPS, making it worse balance issue than the RR compared to the AR. There is a 0.3 second spool up time, but I fear it won't be enough of a balancing factor. SMG does not need a buff though. As for the pistols, lets compare: Bolt DPS: 371.25 Range: 54-72 Scrambler: DPS: 733.33 Range: 36-60 Ion DPS: 312.5 (copy pasted from Arkena) Range: 24-42 I'm inclided to say the bolt pistol is fine, the scrambler pistol is kind of OP, and the Ion and flaylock are UP
Am I missing something on the smg? I keep thinking, and calculating it's dps is 385 what am I overlooking?
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1846
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Posted - 2014.02.07 19:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Six kin smg does 23.1 damage with a rof of 1000, that's 23100 damage per minute, 23100/60 = 385 dps. Unless your math includes weapon proficiency, mine does not in both figures. Not to keep arguing this point, but your information is outdated. Six Kin does 25.3 damage per bullet. Your info looks like it's coming from dust514.info, which doesn't reflect the across-the-board damage buff CCP did a while ago. I'm a stickler for DPS math, we needs informed opinions, yo. Sergeant Sazu wrote:Also, SMG? Buff? Those two words shall not be spoken in the same sentence. It's unarguably the most versatile and easy to use sidearm, and most of the time, I defend myself just fine with only my Toxin. Yep. People said the same thing about the AR before 1.8. And now it's the most "underpowered" assault rifleGǪ Take a look at those MagSec SMG stats, man. It makes the current SMG look like a peashooter.
Oh OK I see I am at work so I took my data from the first website I found. I am going to have to rretract my smg buff request then.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1948
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Posted - 2014.03.05 03:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seigfried Warheit wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Smg needs a buff? Your insane. It's like saying the AR needs a buff. I agree. But I never looked at the Magsec SMG stats. 388 DPS at the base level, compared to the normal SMGs 383? So it has higher DPS and 60% greater optimal range? WTF, developersGǪ do you have any concept of what the word balance means? But how fast can it deal the damage? I'm expecting it to act like the breach smg but with a charge up time...so smg vs magsec smg...smg should still win it can start dealing damage faster and has more spread so better in cqc (assuming you didn't skill into sharpshooter).... while the magsec... since its gonna be Caldari tech.... I'm assuming its gonna be laser accurate and require at least some basic aiming skills and has a smaller clip size so as long as you don't stand still you can have the advantage over them. I doubt its gonna be good at cqc more for medium range and if you get the first strike.... since its Caldari tech and we dont like to get blood on are suits from cqc. .....Then again we are all jumping the gun too soon and don't know how the gun will work and how it compares to other guns we are just speculating on numbers and such but really we wont know anything until it actually comes out and we use then we can start making suggestion on it.
If the SMG and the Magsec both start at equal the minimal range for both to be effective then neither would win, simply because of the DPS being match. if the fight starts at the Magsec's range then it will win regardless of the damage output of the SMG, meaning that the Magsec has an advantage past the SMG's range and then matched at the SMG's range. This should not the the case, within the 0-20 meters the SMG can deal maximum damage it should outclass the Magsec.
Also since it is Caldari tech it has high Alpha damage so first shot with a Caldari weapon is usually death to the victim. Look at the bolt pistol lol, 1 shot from it and your screwed.
For the Federation!
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