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Jason Pearson
3529
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Posted - 2013.12.20 00:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
When I first started writing this post, I wanted to talk about CPU and PG of vehicles and perhaps even suggest a nerf for this, I wrote the attributes for the Gunnlogi and Sica below and when looking decided to fit a Sica together, below the attributes you'll find my Sica fit, which seems a little ridiculous for the Sica to run. Below the lists I want to talk about the PG/CPU so please read on:
Gunnlogi Attributes and Fittings wrote:
- Max. PG: 2120
- Max. CPU: 845
- Vehicle High-Slot Module: 3
- Vehicle Low-Slot Module: 2
- Vehicle Large Turret: 1
- Vehicle Small Turret: 2
- Shield: 2650
- Armor: 1500
- Shield Recharge Rate: 168.00HP/s
- Shield Recharge Delay: 4.00 s
- Depleted Shield Recharge Delay: 10.00 s
- Armor Repair Rate: 0.00 HP/s
- Movement Speed: 19.50 m/s
- Scan Profile: 200 dB
- Scan Precision: 50 dB
- Scan Radius: 10.00m
- Meta Level: 1
Sica Attributes and Fittings wrote:
- Max. PG: 1908
- Max. CPU: 761
- Vehicle High-Slot Module: 2
- Vehicle Low-Slot Module: 2
- Vehicle Large Turret: 1
- Vehicle Small Turret: 2
- Shield: 2650
- Armor: 1500
- Shield Recharge Rate: 168.00HP/s
- Shield Recharge Delay: 4.00 s
- Depleted Shield Recharge Delay: 10.00 s
- Armor Repair Rate: 0.00 HP/s
- Movement Speed: 19.50 m/s
- Scan Profile: 200 dB
- Scan Precision: 50 dB
- Scan Radius: 10.00m
- Meta Level: 0
Oh and just for fun, the difference between these levels, just incase somebody wants to have a look at see
- Max. PG: 212
- Max. CPU: 84
- Vehicle High-Slot Module: 1
- Meta Level: 1
On my Gunnlogi I fit all Complex modules fine, I use a Shield Hardener, a Heavy Extender, a Light Booster, Light Armor Rep and Blaster Ammo Expansion Unit, I can fit this with relative ease, but this is due to the fact I have my shield skills and turret skills that can reduce CPU and PG, trying it without skills doesn't work. However, fitting a Sica with a similar setup with no skills, and just losing the heavy extender, this is what you end up with.
- High: Complex Shield Hardener
- High: Complex Light Shield Booster
- Low: Complex Light Armor Repair
- Low: Complex Blaster Ammo Expansion Unit
- Turret: 80GJ Ion Cannon (Prototype)
- PG Left: 103
- CPU Left: 46
- Cost: 427,035 ISK
So, remember how both the Gunnlogi and Sica have 2650 Shields? My Gunnlogi can fit a Heavy Extender that increases the Shields to 3975 (1325 Increase) but requires skills into Optimization for the turrets and the CPU reduction for the Shields.
So to get the Sica? Heres the Skills required
Sica:
- None
Turret - 945,200 SP
- Turret Operation Level 5 - 310,920 SP
- Large Turret Operation Level 1 - 12,440 SP
- Large Blaser Operation Level 5 - 621,840 SP
Shield Booster and Shield Hardener - 621,840
- Vehicle Upgrades Level 3 - 68,400 SP (Negated)
- Vehicle Shields Upgrades Level 5 - 621,840 SP
Armor Repair - 621,840
- Vehicle Upgrades Level 3 - 68,400 SP (Negated)
- Vehicle Armor Upgrades Level 5 - 621,840 SP
Ammo - 932,760 SP
- Vehicle Upgrades Level 5 - 310,920 SP
- Vehicle Turret Upgrades Level 5 - 621,840 SP
Total SP spent: 3,121,640
it's a no frills fit, but looks to be very effective, especially for the SP in it, you can roll this around and blitz other tanks in a Sica quite easily.
Now I didn't start writing this post just to share with you how to build a Sica, but the fact it's very easy to run all complex modules on a Sica and a Gunnlogi, a Militia and Standard Vehicle. If we are to ever have anything more than Standard Vehicles, it looks like these need a nerf, if I was to use all standard modules of the same above fit for the Sica, it'd be quite a big change. Lets look:
- High: Basic Shield Hardener
- High: Basic Light Shield Booster
- Low: Basic Light Armor Repair
- Low: Basic Blaster Ammo Expansion Unit
- Turret: 80GJ Blaster (Standard)
- PG Left: 755
- CPU Left: 271
- Cost: 103,065 ISK
The Gunnlogi isn't much different, look at all the extra CPU and PG! It's unnecessary to have such a large amount of CPU and PG on these vehicles, you go straight for the highest things because you can fit them with no issue, especially once you have skills in place, there is literally nothing you cannot fit on these. It is however a different story for armor tanks, I've bolded that just to let people know I understand there's a difference, especially for the CPU on Armor tanks, so if we were to nerf these, the Shields would need a bigger nerf than their Armor counterparts.
If I've been clear you should see that the amount of CPU/PG we get on the Sica and Gunnlogi is far too high, yes I know we all like to roll around with complex modules but there is no real sacrifice here, it's easy to run everything on the tank and you don't need stress about what you can and can't fit.
So my TL;DR
- CPU and PG is ridiculous on Standard and Militia Tanks
- This needs to be looked at and possibly nerfed
- Armor tanks don't need as much as a nerf as Shield Tanks
- It turns out you can create a very good Sica with complex modules for just over 3mil SP.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3530
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Posted - 2013.12.20 00:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:We'd kinda need advanced tanks though, right?
Aye, this is aimed at more what we're going to need to sacrifice if we get those Advanced and Prototype, well not only that, it's quite ridiculous it's possible to place all prototype mods on a militia hull with no issue, It wouldn't be so bad if we had to fit most of it as standard to fit a single proto thing on there, but there's no issue.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3530
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Posted - 2013.12.20 00:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote: so if you started now you could fit a decent sica in a month and a half. Your good with numbers. Fit me a decent tank with militia mods. See how that works out. There is really only two viable fits.
Did you seriously have to quote the whole thing? -¼_-¼
You run the exact same fit using Miltia Modules, they're all there, it just means you have to retreat a little longer, oh and you can change the militia light armor rep for a militia heavy armor rep giving you 25HP extra for your armor. :)
This would cost you 88,440 ISK btw.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3531
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Posted - 2013.12.20 03:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:As of right now, with the tanks we have and the possible fits they can handle, I think that Militia HAVs - the Sica moreso - need a small nerf to PG and CPU. While I haven't tried fitting Madrugars personally, what I've heard implies that they might need a slight buff to line up with how shield tanks can be fitted, although with the variety they have in utility modules on their off-tank, that might actually be a deliberate balancing mechanism. Gunnlogi = stronger fitting, Madrugar = more varied.
Until we actually GET higher-tier tanks, or more low slot utility modules, that should be all the nerfing we get.
IF and WHEN they add in an Advanced and/or Prototype tier for vehicle hulls, the Militia HAVs might need another (smaller) downward PG/CPU adjustment, and it would probably be beneficial to reduce their HP by a small amount. Basically treat them a little like Heavy suits in that regard. It wouldn't be a big nerf, just enough that you feel the difference when jumping into a "real" tank.
This means that with the current state, you get armour tanks as the max speed armour-heavy varied off-tank fittings, and shield tanks are pretty much just maxed-out shield tank with proto everything or maxed-out dual tank with slightly less proto-ness.
Also, I would like to apologise to armour tankers for assuming that you, like me, had a far easier time than would normally be considered reasonable when fitting high-end gear on a Standard vehicle hull.
I disagree, I believe the CPU/PG should be brought in line to be able to fit all standard modules and a Proto Turret, or a standard turret and other proto modules, making sacrifices for different things, such as the ability to turn your hardeners on more often and quicker by using a Complex one but sacrificing the damage output of your turret, it creates more varied approaches to vehicles and would be far more interesting.
I mean look at that Sica, PROTO everything on a Militia hull, that is not right nor should we go with the idea it needs a "slight" nerf, it need a proper nerf and Gunnlogis not so far behind it, along with a price increase for both depending on how little the nerf.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3531
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Posted - 2013.12.20 04:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
It SHOULD be perfectly reasonable for the best current tanks - that means Standard - to fit Proto everything
This is the thing I disagree with, I don't much care for how Dropsuits do it, they can argue with eachother for balance, but even proto tanks, If we ever get them, I feel should never be able to proto everything, ever. I would like to see it ridiculously hard to put a proto turret with Militia modules on a Militia tank, currently I still have over 200 CPU and 100 PG left with all militia mods and a proto cannon on it, if I fit a proto rails, around 140 CPU and near 250 PG left, I should be struggling to fit this and it's not a tiny nor slight nerf required.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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