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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
401
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Posted - 2013.11.18 19:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Background: It has been observed that the speed differential between medium frames and scout/light frames, are too small. Either medium frames are too fast, or scout frames are too slow. Something should be done about this
Failed proposals: Some people say "make mediums slower!" But that would make the base medium frame too painfully slow for the map sizes. it's barely tolerable as-is. Some people say "make scouts faster!" But apaprently, there are some problems with the game engine, to allow infantry movement faster than current limits (and in fact, speed was capped in earlier versions, for exactly this reason)
New Proposal: Make kinetic catalysers light/scout only.
We could leave the small speed boost that comes from leveling up the Biotics skill. However, only allow scouts to fit 'kincats'. This would eliminate the 'logi is a better scout than a scout' problem
Implementation details Rumor has it, a cloak module is in the pipe, potentialy with a special scout-only slot. Stick to that plan, and make kincats limited to that same slot type.
In-game lore justification Motor servos have real-life physics limitations. Usually, you design a drive system for hauling power, OR speed, but not both. Heavy and Medium frame limb augment servos are designed for hauling power. Scout suits are designed for speed. It requires specially designed servos to handle the fast cycling that is required to go above the 8.0m/s running speed.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
402
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Posted - 2013.11.18 20:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I understand where you're coming from, but you can't just have class only items.
and why not?
If DUST was supposed to be an "anyone can be anything" system, then there would be no "heavy/medium/light" suits at all! There would just be an open frame and you MAKE it heavy/medium/light based on what modules you put in.
Besides which, we already have class only items. "Heavy weapons". As such, "Light modules" seem perfectly fair. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
403
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Posted - 2013.11.18 20:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: Please quote my whole post instead of pointing out something you don't agree with. I iterated the point that make scouts better at using biotics while others can just use them.
I'm sorry, I'll reply to it now then:
"Not good enough".
In my opinion, if someone wants to go significantly faster than other infantry, they should be required to equip light suit or scout suit. THATS THE POINT OF A LIGHT SUIT. Otherwise, there's not much point in them existing.
Related to that: even a proto medium, should not be able to outsprint an ADV scout, using ADV modules. Your proposal allows that. So; fail.
Similarly for your "can scouts get a speed buff?" question. The buff would most likely be very minor. Which would still allow the super-sprinter medium suit, to outpace ADV scouts. Which is ludicrous, and should not be allowed any more. It is questionable whether they should be able to keep up with even a basic scout suit.
Of course, anyone who is playing a super-sprinter medium proto suit right now (You, perhaps, Krom?) is going to complain bitterly that they wont be able to play like that any more, and they'd actually have to use a scout suit to go fast. (GASP! HORROR!) Which is the whole point. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
406
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Cosgar wrote: Please quote my whole post instead of pointing out something you don't agree with. I iterated the point that make scouts better at using biotics while others can just use them.
I'm sorry, I'll reply to it now then: "Not good enough". In my opinion, if someone wants to go significantly faster than other infantry, they should be required to equip light suit or scout suit. THATS THE POINT OF A LIGHT SUIT. Otherwise, there's not much point in them existing.
It just occurred to me that perhaps a medium, or even heavy, might want use of kinetics, not to neccessarily go faster than base, but to offset the penalty for armor? Lets see, for example: 2xcomplex plates, 1xcomplex kincat?
That would give a bonus of +270 armor and even a slight overall speed BOOST, since +12 beats -5, -5 That is semi reasonable use of that sort of thing, since using ferroscale in the same slots, gives only 3x75= +225HP.
However, I dont see a sensible way to allow for that kind of use, while disallowing the bad kind.
One way to go,might be to boost complex ferroscale to +90 per module. (and boosts for lower skilled ferroscale as well) Then you'd get the same armor benefit, with same number of slots.
Orr.. we could just say "the heck with it, if you use armor, you're GOING to be slow, DEAL with it." Scouts have certainly had enough "Just deal with it" changes. Time for the other half, to get its share. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
406
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 22:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Slight bump to point out my edit to post #11. which reads better as part of the whole post on armor, I think. Hence why the edit, rather than piecemealing it down here.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
408
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote: As for limiting access to biotics to light frames only, i tend to agree with the people saying modules shouldnt have a hard limit to what frame can use them.
And I'll totally support you on this.
Right after they let me fit a forge gun on my scout suit.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
412
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Posted - 2013.11.19 18:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Cosgar is right about this. If you look at Eve Online, there are is a cloaking module that can be fitted on any ship in Eve. However, certain classes of ships have much greater perks than the regular classes of ships.
... One more thing to note. In Eve Online there are two types of cloaking modules. A standard cloak and a Covert Ops cloak.
However, the Covops Cloak can ONLY be fitted on a Covert Ops ship. Nothing else.
dust doesnt have to exactly mirror EVE. But if it does... what you are saying, matches up pretty well with my proposal. The only thing to add, would be the explicit statement that militia kinetic catalysers can still somehow be fitted by anyone.
So, the militia variant could go in a regular low slot. But skilled-into modules, would require the special scout-only slot.
I'd find that fairly reasonable. Limiting non-scouts to the militia modles... WITH stacking penalties... would allow for cancelling of armor penalties somewhat, while avoiding the "medium-frame-scout" phenomenon.
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