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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
85
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Posted - 2013.10.24 19:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is from a Logi player who was here before chromosome.
Logis can do almost anything, and do it well. Sometimes better than the suit that is supposed to do that role. On the other side of the spectrum we have commandos. They sounde amazing, a game changer. But that isn't what happened. Two light weapons are super fun, but the suit is lacking. The suit is too slow to really get the best out of your setup.
So, my proposal is simple, and fixes many issues related to suits and roles. Switch Logi with commando on the skill tree.
Now logis won't need so many high/low slots since they will have a larger base hp. Still only one weapon though, to push the idea of support. Slightly faster than heavies, but not as close to assault like it is now.
Now onto commandos. They of course keep their dual light weapons, but lose their equipment slot. In turn they get a grenade instead. Reasoning being, they will NEED team support. Ideally from an accompanying assault player or Logi. Commandos would be a bit slower than assaults, to better seperate the two roles. Assault class remains the go to class for frontal engagement, with commandos providing support with versitile gunplay.
Logis would hold equipment in the heavy class, while sentinels would not. While assaults would have equipment, the commandos wouldn't. Those who want to be slayers, would go either assault or commando. Those who want to take a more defensive role, sentinel or logistics.
TL:DR; Switch commando frame size with logis frame size. Keep what makes that role speacil, and balance it out. No more assault Logi nonsense, and commandos move up to the other suits/roles. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
89
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Posted - 2013.10.24 22:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
This assumption that you can't assault without sacrificing equipment is a fallacy. I do it all the time. Proto weapon, at least three proto equipments with complex and advanced modules jammed in there. I lose a possible 15~20% percent of possible health versus an assault, but I get 3-4 equipment and similar speed. The other options to balance logis just take things away, without giving anything in return, i.e. taking high/low slots; CPU/pg; light weapon slot. Also the idea to force equipment use somehow. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
89
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Posted - 2013.10.24 22:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I wasn't expecting to like this idea, but it's reasonable enough. Same here. Once I stopped and thought about it, it's pretty damn neat. I do agree that it's an enormous mental shift, and would leave a lot of players scratching their heads. But you could basically ask... 1) If you're a current Slayer Logi: How would you feel about losing your equipment slots for a second Light Weapon slot? 2) If you're a current LogiBro: How would you feel about losing a bit of speed, but getting quite a bit tankier to do your job without dying on the spot? 3) If you're a current Commando: How would feel about having a medium frame, and trade that equipment slot for more his/lows/grenade slot? I can't think of anyone who'd outright reject any of those situations. IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE
Straight to the heart of it. Imagine a Logi being able to shield your body during a revive, without either of you dieing in the process. A commando could do all the things it does now, but be more effective. The only draw back would be the same as a forge gunner, no nanohives. And we all know the lack of equipment doesn't stop FG sniping. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
89
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Posted - 2013.10.24 23:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Well OP credit for trying its nice to see someone trying, but no that woukdn't work, limiting the logi to a heavy would be a massive hindrance to their team!
The logistics then limits the squad too much! Sorry, but good try!
I counter good sir with.... Logistic Light Attack Vehicle. A heavy frame Logi would need transportation, like most heavies do. Plus, a Logi could run a mCRU to really support his team! |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
90
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Posted - 2013.10.24 23:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Love the idea and as a logibro I fully endorse the 'heavy logi'. I can see myself with prototype triage hives, prototype repair tool and injector, tanking the DPS for my team, dishing out a little of my own, but my slow speed will force me to stick with me team, 'cause running off on my own is a problem I've had for a while.
However, one qualm: as a hoarder who plays MMORPGs gathering items and not throwing any away, playing CoD with Scavenger as my favourite perk, playing DUST a feeling empty without nanohives, I say add this variant, and add the assault commando variant, without removing the other two. See whether anything become redundant, then remove them or change them to make them more viable. (reimbursing SP as necessary)
I mean, variants are important, right? I'm sure there are ships in EVE that only a few people use, if only to be unique.
Yep, slow Logi means you need your squad, not just your squad needing your equipment. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
90
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Posted - 2013.10.24 23:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Well OP credit for trying its nice to see someone trying, but no that woukdn't work, limiting the logi to a heavy would be a massive hindrance to their team!
The logistics then limits the squad too much! Sorry, but good try! I counter good sir with.... Logistic Light Attack Vehicle. A heavy frame Logi would need transportation, like most heavies do. Plus, a Logi could run a mCRU to really support his team! Quite true but then you become a sitting duck in that lovely open top cruiser, especially when you have to drive at walking speed! The logi works best on the medium suit it allows it the versatility required to run with a squad across multiple terrains! It allows getting to downed units faster, and still packs enough punch! Not saying we couldn't have a heavy logi, as well!
Why would you drive at walking speed? For your squad? Wouldn't they just ride along. The versatility of the Logi suit is the problem. It can do to much as medium suit. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
91
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Posted - 2013.10.24 23:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Well OP credit for trying its nice to see someone trying, but no that woukdn't work, limiting the logi to a heavy would be a massive hindrance to their team!
The logistics then limits the squad too much! Sorry, but good try! I counter good sir with.... Logistic Light Attack Vehicle. A heavy frame Logi would need transportation, like most heavies do. Plus, a Logi could run a mCRU to really support his team! Quite true but then you become a sitting duck in that lovely open top cruiser, especially when you have to drive at walking speed! The logi works best on the medium suit it allows it the versatility required to run with a squad across multiple terrains! It allows getting to downed units faster, and still packs enough punch! Not saying we couldn't have a heavy logi, as well! Why would you drive at walking speed? For your squad? Wouldn't they just ride along. The versatility of the Logi suit is the problem. It can do to much as medium suit. Or is it the medium suit that is the problem, why should a logi be rellegated to defensive purposes, maybe its because we are using assaults as a yard stick when they aren't?
It shouldn't be forced into a defensive position, but with its speed(medium suit) AND versatility(Logi class) its too much. I play as a Logi, from the start. I am suggesting taking away MY own ability to slay so effectively, in favor of a better game. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
103
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:[quote=Chunky Munkey]I can't think of anyone who'd outright reject any of those situations. IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE Thus it will fail.
That's how i feel. People keep regurgitating; only side arms, cut slots, lock out damage mods, cut CPU/pg. None of it willl work.
Side note, played with black eagle scout. Yep, if that was a medium suit it would be AMAZING. It would be what I suggest as the commando suit. Grenade and no equipment, makes you deadly but vulnerable without support. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
103
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Posted - 2013.11.16 20:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Why don't we... Offer a basic frame xk.1 that has 2 equipments, 3 on proto. Has light weapon. Current logi loses light slot, gains specialisation.
Amarr basic logi would have light+sidearm, whereas amarr specialised logi would have just light, or 2 sidearms.
Not to single you out, but what do you mean by specialisation? You are talking about losing the light weapon slot? |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals EoN.
103
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Posted - 2013.11.16 20:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:No thanks
I don't think the logistics class would benefit from becoming a heavy
It's not just the Logi suits, its the commandos also. Commandos should be aggressive, which is hard being in a heavy frame. |
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