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8213
Grade No.2
136
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Posted - 2013.08.11 17:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you complain about players using Prototype gear in this game, you're looking at it from a CoD or BF perspective. In CoD and BF, as you level up nothing you gain access to different and usually better gear to use. Your character stays the same. same amount of health, same amount of things you can fit onto your class, same ability, same everything. You ca use perks and attachments to better your character, but they are specific to your equipment.
Many people look at DUST 514 the same way. They want more damage, so they strive for better Damage Modules and Weapons, thinking that is the solution. This is simplistic. Your character's damage can be incresed by using better weapons, modules, AND skill-ing into that weapon, making that weapon more all around deadly; accuracy, damage, reload time, etc.
Most skills in this game are not just stepping stones to gain better gear. For example: Armor skills allow you gain use of armor plates AND give you character's base amount of armor a 5% each skill level. Lessening your dependence on modules. Engineering and Electronic Skills expand the base CPU/PG levels for your character's suits, lessening your need to use more expensive Dropsuits in order to run the class setup you want.
So, when you get killed by a Prototype player, chances are they have more than just good gear, but an overall developed character that can withstand more damage, inflict more damage, run faster, heal faster, and reload faster among other things.
So, if your looking at your skill tree and wondering what plan you want to follow, make sure you take into account your character itself. |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
26
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Posted - 2013.08.11 18:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2013.08.11 20:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1
Early realization and some good coaching by veteran corp members keyed me on this. I've just now started to put money into drop suit command...but I've maxed or nearly maxed all passives and worked the skill tree for my SCAR and swarms. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
637
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Posted - 2013.08.11 20:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good advice. |
Lazy Scumbag
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
18
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Posted - 2013.08.12 11:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skills have a much greater benefit than the better gear in most instances. Militia weapons are deadly if your skills are beefed up. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
20
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Posted - 2013.08.12 16:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Great post, and dead on.
I will add this:
I think that in a game like Dust, you're actually better off investing in core skills FIRST rather than the weapon. The thinking is the incremental increase in weapon is less valuable than the increase in your core skills (and survivability). In addition, core skill investment will allow you to fit more things (including better weapons), rather than be hamstrung by a weak PG/CPU/loadout.
That's not to say you should ignore investing in weapon skills, but rather take a long hard look at increasing core skills first. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
643
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Posted - 2013.08.12 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Great post, and dead on.
I will add this:
I think that in a game like Dust, you're actually better off investing in core skills FIRST rather than the weapon. The thinking is the incremental increase in weapon is less valuable than the increase in your core skills (and survivability). In addition, core skill investment will allow you to fit more things (including better weapons), rather than be hamstrung by a weak PG/CPU/loadout.
That's not to say you should ignore investing in weapon skills, but rather take a long hard look at increasing core skills first.
Key core skills: Core upgrades, Engineering, electronics, shield, armor .... then weapon. I understand the principle and it is sound advice later down the road, but for the early early days... the thing is, if you can fit the best modules/weapon you have skills for onto the best suit you have, training up fitting skills does absolutely nothing for you until you have better modules/weapons. It is a long term thing, but I find that gaining higher-level gear FIRST is preferable, and then work on whatever fitting skill you need later. Some will need Electronics IV but only Engineering I... and if they automatically go to III in both it just takes longer to fit the suit they like, if you get what I'm saying?
There is also diminishing returns to consider. Getting Shield Upgrades from IV to V is a huge SP sink for <10 total HP gained. Getting Assault Rifle from I to III costs less in terms of SP, but improves base stats of all ARs as well as a 5% DPS increase which over the course of a battle is going to result in ~5% more damage done to the enemy if a Gek is used.
Generally early on you should be focusing on getting lots of core+weapon+suit skills to II-III to give you the most bang for your buck. It is the decision to take something from III-IV or V where I usually see people regretting things dome impulsively. If it is a core skill though, that decision should never be regretted.
It's a delicate balance. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
20
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Posted - 2013.08.12 20:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Great post, and dead on.
I will add this:
I think that in a game like Dust, you're actually better off investing in core skills FIRST rather than the weapon. The thinking is the incremental increase in weapon is less valuable than the increase in your core skills (and survivability). In addition, core skill investment will allow you to fit more things (including better weapons), rather than be hamstrung by a weak PG/CPU/loadout.
That's not to say you should ignore investing in weapon skills, but rather take a long hard look at increasing core skills first.
Key core skills: Core upgrades, Engineering, electronics, shield, armor .... then weapon. I understand the principle and it is sound advice later down the road, but for the early early days... the thing is, if you can fit the best modules/weapon you have skills for onto the best suit you have, training up fitting skills does absolutely nothing for you until you have better modules/weapons. It is a long term thing, but I find that gaining higher-level gear FIRST is preferable, and then work on whatever fitting skill you need later. Some will need Electronics IV but only Engineering I... and if they automatically go to III in both it just takes longer to fit the suit they like, if you get what I'm saying? There is also diminishing returns to consider. Getting Shield Upgrades from IV to V is a huge SP sink for <10 total HP gained. Getting Assault Rifle from I to III costs less in terms of SP, but improves base stats of all ARs as well as a 5% DPS increase which over the course of a battle is going to result in ~5% more damage done to the enemy if a Gek is used. Generally early on you should be focusing on getting lots of core+weapon+suit skills to II-III to give you the most bang for your buck. It is the decision to take something from III-IV or V where I usually see people regretting things dome impulsively. If it is a core skill though, that decision should never be regretted. It's a delicate balance.
Well said, sir, I agree completely. Thanks for the discussion.
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DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1847
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Posted - 2013.08.13 10:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tiericed, |
Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2013.08.16 10:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't get it - it sounds like trying to say proto are so awesome that...never mind bringing the most expensive gear to public matches to fight people just out of the academy.
Maybe if folk couldn't farm a better K/D ratio (to compensate for their PC or other battle deaths) by taking proto to public matches, it'd be better.
Because that's what your doing.
Hell, if you could get into academy with your proto suits on, you would.
Not because of any special complex meaning. There's no depth to it. |
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8213
Grade No.2
144
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Posted - 2013.08.16 20:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Blake Kingston wrote:I don't get it - it sounds like trying to say proto are so awesome that...never mind bringing the most expensive gear to public matches to fight people just out of the academy.
Maybe if folk couldn't farm a better K/D ratio (to compensate for their PC or other battle deaths) by taking proto to public matches, it'd be better.
Because that's what your doing.
Hell, if you could get into academy with your proto suits on, you would.
Not because of any special complex meaning. There's no depth to it.
Clearly you missed the entire meaning of this post. Re-read it if you'd like, and I can explain any gaps you might still have...
I'm informing rookies that building your character should be a bigger priority than getting than using better gear. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
Rebel Raiders Inc.
886
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Posted - 2013.08.16 23:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Blake Kingston wrote:I don't get it - it sounds like trying to say proto are so awesome that...never mind bringing the most expensive gear to public matches to fight people just out of the academy.
Maybe if folk couldn't farm a better K/D ratio (to compensate for their PC or other battle deaths) by taking proto to public matches, it'd be better.
Because that's what your doing.
Hell, if you could get into academy with your proto suits on, you would.
Not because of any special complex meaning. There's no depth to it.
what community are you from where the vets handicap themselves pre game for sake of some noobs who havent yet "unlocked" scopes, grips, attachments, perks and what not?
there is no FPS community out there that does this they just laugh at the noobs who demand it. so stop expecting ours to be the first. |
Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2013.08.18 00:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:Blake Kingston wrote:I don't get it - it sounds like trying to say proto are so awesome that...never mind bringing the most expensive gear to public matches to fight people just out of the academy.
Maybe if folk couldn't farm a better K/D ratio (to compensate for their PC or other battle deaths) by taking proto to public matches, it'd be better.
Because that's what your doing.
Hell, if you could get into academy with your proto suits on, you would.
Not because of any special complex meaning. There's no depth to it. what community are you from where the vets handicap themselves pre game for sake of some noobs who havent yet "unlocked" scopes, grips, attachments, perks and what not? there is no FPS community out there that does this they just laugh at the noobs who demand it. so stop expecting ours to be the first. Hey, in a running race between a four year old and yourself an adult, why would you handicap yourself?
But hey, bring in the 'don't do that' strawman to beat up on, in order to avoid the 'well, its a bit sad winning against a four year old, isn't it?' point. |
Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2013.08.18 00:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
8213 wrote:I'm informing rookies that building your character should be a bigger priority than getting than using better gear. Given they come with each other equally, it seems a moot point.
But basically you deliver a non sequitur in regards to, as I understand it, the responce to proto suits. So that's why it didn't make sense to me. Okay. |
8213
Grade No.2
148
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Posted - 2013.08.18 00:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
How the heck did this post turn to this? Its an advice post to new players... geezuz |
jingle wingle
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.08.19 02:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Blake Kingston wrote:Hey, in a running race between a four year old and yourself an adult, why would you handicap yourself?
But hey, bring in the 'don't do that' strawman to beat up on, in order to avoid the 'well, its a bit sad winning against a four year old, isn't it?' point. This is New Eden, if you're an adult running a race with a 4 year old, you knee it in the face at the starting line and push ahead.
Your analogy is stupid and encourages child abuse, therefore your post is bad and you should feel bad.
Also, funny thing about saying other people are using strawmen arguments.... Irony much? |
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