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X-eon
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
24
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
For the purpose of fan fiction and understanding the games Lore a bit better, is there no true way of dying for a Dust Merc in the sense that they can never return?
It crossed my mind the other day that even though we are "immortal" in game, people IRL are not, and to reflect this in game or on the forums, myself (or others) could write an Epic short story to these mercs that have passed away.
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
717
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not unless you get your account banned. Our clones are pretty neat allowing us instant transfer to a new clone upon death. |
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Allah's Snackbar
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
472
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
X-eon wrote:For the purpose of fan fiction and understanding the games Lore a bit better, is there no true way of dying for a Dust Merc in the sense that they can never return?
It crossed my mind the other day that even though we are "immortal" in game, people IRL are not, and to reflect this in game or on the forums, myself (or others) could write an Epic short story to these mercs that have passed away. A bit morbid don't you think? |
X-eon
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
24
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah it is, and a bit of a touchy subject as well, but I'm curious to see what people have to say about it. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
1615
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hmm, poor battlefield performance so their contract or what have you is terminated so they dont get to respawn? I mean when we die we need another clone body waiting for us and they arent free you know so conceivably we would die if we couldnt pay the bills |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
212
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
its referred to as Biomassing iirc.
having all your spare clones reduced to their base organic components.
if the hardware responsible for the transfer of consciousness failed then a clone death might also result in perma-death? |
X-eon
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
24
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
So if the transfer of a clones conscious is done electronically, wouldn't an EMP immediately after a clones death fry it? |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
976
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
It is possible to "perma death", move on, enter the void, start the next journy... We are mortals that have been given the chance of imortality, but that does not mean we are capable of living that long, and keeping our sanity... many have chosen to rest. |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
241
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
I saw a Dust merc with (R.I.P) after the name. So somewhere in the lore it has to be possible. Look up the corp Incredibly Skilled Klones. Maybe: Merc team gets pushed back and all field and air assets are destroyed (i.e. no clone goo to use) Merc dies with nowhere for the consciousness to transfer to... (shrug)
Is there a limit to distance for the transfer? |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
212
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
X-eon wrote:So if the transfer of a clones conscious is done electronically, wouldn't an EMP immediately after a clones death fry it?
EMP weaponry is common in EvE, as is shielding against it.
Moreover, the tech behind Clone soldiers does not originate with any of the four empires... |
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X-eon
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
24
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:Is there a limit to distance for the transfer?
That's an interesting question I'd like to know too. So far, I have seen no sign that there is a max/min transfer distance. |
X-eon
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
24
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:X-eon wrote:So if the transfer of a clones conscious is done electronically, wouldn't an EMP immediately after a clones death fry it? EMP weaponry is common in EvE, as is shielding against it. Moreover, the tech behind Clone soldiers does not originate with any of the four empires...
So we couldn't rightly say that an EMP or any EVE weaponry could effectively and permanently destroy a clones conscious until the technology was better understood? I went digging and remembered that an altered chip derived from a Templar? is implanted into the hosts body. Does that chip still exist in the clones bodies or is the body replicated from biomass afterwards without it? |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
241
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Posted - 2013.08.05 10:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
X-eon wrote:Quote:Is there a limit to distance for the transfer? That's an interesting question I'd like to know too. So far, I have seen no sign that there is a max/min transfer distance. Oh man... You didn't even spell my name, nevermind spell it right. What I do to you? jk |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1001
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Posted - 2013.08.05 11:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
X-eon wrote:For the purpose of fan fiction and understanding the games Lore a bit better, is there no true way of dying for a Dust Merc in the sense that they can never return to the world of the living?
It crossed my mind the other day that even though we are "immortal" in game, people IRL are not, and to reflect this as an ode or memento to them on the forums, myself (or others) could write an Epic short story to these mercs.
There is if I am not mistaken instances where merc consciousness transfers have failed resulting in death. Also I don't think I have to say this but.... dying still probably hurts pretty bad and in most instances death won't always be quick, bleeding out in match, or being subjected to intense burning energy beams, gyro jets, and "toxin" weaponry.
My orginal character bio actually started off with a mortal member of the Sarum Imperial Guard being killed on Ammamake and subsequently discovering that his implants are based of sleeper technology that will not let him die. |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
23
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Posted - 2013.08.05 11:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
dust514, we put the fun into dying |
Sona Nara
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2013.08.05 11:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
I do believe your ability to awaken in a new body is directly tied to your Dropsuit. IIRC upon death the cloning technology in your suit takes a snap shot of your brain (destroying it in the process) and this is instantly uploaded across any distance to the new clone.
So really, as long as you are out of your drop suit you are no longer immortal. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6953
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cloning accidents still happen. Implants can also be defective. Templars 2-6 are permanently offline as are all original Sleepers who used a similar technology. Taking out our routers/enclaves then killing our bodies before we have time to establish a new connection is also effective. |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
379
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
It could also be some type of pseudo death. You could starve a merc until they died, only to have the re spawn with the feeling of hunger still with them. Then you'd just repeat that torture until they were nothing. Or you could have some injury that leaves the merc in a coma. They're not dead, so they don't come back into a new body, and their mind is gone so even a 'fresh brain' wouldn't do anything. Just my two cents
Personally, I'd love to make a story about the hardships of war when you're immortal, especially torture. If your body and mind will never forget the psychological pain inflicted on it, you would live out eternity in a daze at best and in a nightmare at worse. Your immortality would be rendered mute with torture |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6953
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:It could also be some type of pseudo death. You could starve a merc until they died, only to have the re spawn with the feeling of hunger still with them. Then you'd just repeat that torture until they were nothing. Or you could have some injury that leaves the merc in a coma. They're not dead, so they don't come back into a new body, and their mind is gone so even a 'fresh brain' wouldn't do anything. Just my two cents
Personally, I'd love to make a story about the hardships of war when you're immortal, especially torture. If your body and mind will never forget the psychological pain inflicted on it, you would live out eternity in a daze at best and in a nightmare at worse. Your immortality would be rendered mute with torture
And people wonder why the immortal pilots and soldiers are considered inhuman.
There have been a quite few that have 'risen' above this psychological stigma where needs of the flesh no longer bother them however neither does a complete lack moral base allowing them to commit mass murder without second thought.
Pilots are rarely bothered by the millions upon millions of crew folk and space settlers they've killed. |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
379
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Piercing Serenity wrote:It could also be some type of pseudo death. You could starve a merc until they died, only to have the re spawn with the feeling of hunger still with them. Then you'd just repeat that torture until they were nothing. Or you could have some injury that leaves the merc in a coma. They're not dead, so they don't come back into a new body, and their mind is gone so even a 'fresh brain' wouldn't do anything. Just my two cents
Personally, I'd love to make a story about the hardships of war when you're immortal, especially torture. If your body and mind will never forget the psychological pain inflicted on it, you would live out eternity in a daze at best and in a nightmare at worse. Your immortality would be rendered mute with torture And people wonder why the immortal pilots and soldiers are considered inhuman.
Is that a reference to the capacity of merc to figure out how to inflict death (essentially) on someone who is truly immortal? Or is that statement meant to highlight that the traumas of war really do change immortal humans into something else? |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6954
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Piercing Serenity wrote:It could also be some type of pseudo death. You could starve a merc until they died, only to have the re spawn with the feeling of hunger still with them. Then you'd just repeat that torture until they were nothing. Or you could have some injury that leaves the merc in a coma. They're not dead, so they don't come back into a new body, and their mind is gone so even a 'fresh brain' wouldn't do anything. Just my two cents
Personally, I'd love to make a story about the hardships of war when you're immortal, especially torture. If your body and mind will never forget the psychological pain inflicted on it, you would live out eternity in a daze at best and in a nightmare at worse. Your immortality would be rendered mute with torture And people wonder why the immortal pilots and soldiers are considered inhuman. Is that a reference to the capacity of merc to figure out how to inflict death (essentially) on someone who is truly immortal? Or is that statement meant to highlight that the traumas of war really do change immortal humans into something else?
There have been a quite few that have 'risen' above this psychological stigma where needs of the flesh no longer bother them however neither does a complete lack moral base allowing them to commit mass murder without second thought.
Pilots are rarely bothered by the millions upon millions of crew folk and space settlers they've killed. In due time the immortal Soldiers are going to be just as unbothered. There is an deep fear running through most non-clonners minds concerning us, they don't see us as human anymore most of the time. Then again humans die and unable to continue their legacy, the empyreans and elysians are unbothered and consider death a minor inconvenience.
It gets disturbing to an outside observer sometimes, cases where family and friends are discarded after the process is rather common. Socializing with non-cloners is rare. Not reacting to things that would traumatize most others is fairly common. After all being inside a ship as its dying with its crew is a pretty horrific event in itself considering the starship is the extension of the body and everything the ship goes though is reflected through the pilot's psyche.
Either way the things we do or will be doing would have and never will cross a regular person's mind ever.
And despite popular belief, the empires invented the immortality complex and means. Not the jovians, all they did was provide the pod to make it more convenient to control massive starships.
There is some various trainings to help prepare people for the immortal life, Concord and empires provide some of it, it would also not be surprising if there are social clubs that help 'support' the immortal mental well being. Dwelling with survivors guilt is a silly thing for an immortal to go through but fresh podders and soldiers would still probably go though things they would have experienced in their old lives.
As for the torture part, we not sure if the current pilots 'upgraded' to our clones. After all the sleeper consciousness transferral implants are not the same implants that enables pilots to control ships. We do know the pilots are upgrading in some areas to take control of the new 'tech 3' ships since its sleeper tech and will not respond to empire tech implants. So it stands to reason the new immortal soldier implants would have start working their way into the capsuleers. |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
380
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is a very "For who the Bell Tolls" moment.
Do we as immortal clones lose any part of our humanity from the deaths of others? Are we shielded from that change (To some extent) by virtue of the fact that the bell can't ever toll for us? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6954
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:This is a very "For who the Bell Tolls" moment.
Do we as immortal clones lose any part of our humanity from the deaths of others? Are we shielded from that change (To some extent) by virtue of the fact that the bell can't ever toll for us?
Not all lose their humanity, but many do come with the terms they're no longer able to die either and as life normally goes, its going to throw a nasty curve ball to severely remind them they cannot die.
We're not exactly gods though we're still very killable just we're not someone you can shoot 3am on the side of the street and be done with it. Chances are the guy shot will find where the shooter sleeps and kill him the in most painful way possible for pissing him off.
As for capsuleer behavior there are some short stories about it you can read here
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Portal:EVE_Fiction
http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/hands-of-a-killer/
http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/all-these-lives-are-fit-to-ruin-1/
There are a few more stories that go deeper in the EON magazines but they're currently not online anymore. |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
380
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
I guess that depends on how you define "Humanity" and "Life".
Humanity and Mortality are inseparable in my eyes. Living and dying is part of what makes us human. The scarcity of life is what makes it special. But if you circle of life is broken and transformed into a ray (The analogy is sounding a bit weird here), you have changed fundamentally.
In this case, I think that humans are more than just the parts that make up the body. Humanity/Mortality is an intangible aspect of people that makes us who we are. What do you think? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6954
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Posted - 2013.08.05 12:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Death does make a human for what he is, he only has one life.
There are however that extraordinary human who as some people would say be a better world had death not visited him. Unfortunately fate is picky and not everyone has a chance at the immortality enjoyed by the empyreans or elysians. I would say the 'sense of death' is dulled to the immortals as how one goes blind and deaf with age. They just quit caring about either at that point and go about as 'normal' as possible without that sense being available to them anymore. This greatly alters their habits to the point many no longer consider them a part of humanity but as something else because of the disconnect and alien lack of sense is in the uncanny valley.
Before you is a human, down to the every detail it is indistinguishable, but you know there is something wrong, something creepy about them and that is what disturbs most normal people about the capsuleers and mercenaries. |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
380
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Posted - 2013.08.05 13:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Death does make a human for what he is, he only has one life.
There are however that extraordinary human who as some people would say be a better world had death not visited him. Unfortunately fate is picky and not everyone has a chance at the immortality enjoyed by the empyreans or elysians. I would say the 'sense of death' is dulled to the immortals as how one goes blind and deaf with age. They just quit caring about either at that point and go about as 'normal' as possible without that sense being available to them anymore. This greatly alters their habits to the point many no longer consider them a part of humanity but as something else because of the disconnect and alien lack of sense is in the uncanny valley.
Before you is a human, down to the every detail it is indistinguishable, but you know there is something wrong, something creepy about them and that is what disturbs most normal people about the capsuleers and mercenaries.
Agreed. Nice Chat |
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