Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Taurion Bruni
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
151
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 23:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
when placing a shield amplifier on my dropship, The first ward amplifier is supposed to add 15%, but it only adds 80% of the total effect. this continues to affect each one after, causing a massive change in total resistance. |
Taurion Bruni
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
151
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 05:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump
|
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
274
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 14:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is there a shield amp incorporated into the dropship? Or perhaps because of skills? Can you post some numbers? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1001
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
numbers numbers!!! |
Psychotic Shooter
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
117
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:when placing a shield amplifier on my dropship, The first ward amplifier is supposed to add 15%, but it only adds 80% of the total effect. this continues to affect each one after, causing a massive change in total resistance.
Let me explain the passive skill fro shield or armour upgrade starts the stacking penalty then you have the first mod that is being reduced due to the passive skills
BTW i am a vehicle specialist i know what im talking about |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
275
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 15:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
In eve though, the stacking penalty only occurs from the 2nd module - regardless of the skills applying to the hull. So it does appear to be a bug if this is not the case here. |
danny12343331
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Need to do some testing on a tank... |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
383
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 21:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:when placing a shield amplifier on my dropship, The first ward amplifier is supposed to add 15%, but it only adds 80% of the total effect. this continues to affect each one after, causing a massive change in total resistance.
I'm 99.98% sure that its because you're doing the math wrong. Really. If you have 10% resistance or whatever base, and you add a mod, you're not supposed to get 25%. And its not because you're getting stacking penalized. Yes you're getting the full 15% effect too. |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
275
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 08:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:Taurion Bruni wrote:when placing a shield amplifier on my dropship, The first ward amplifier is supposed to add 15%, but it only adds 80% of the total effect. this continues to affect each one after, causing a massive change in total resistance. I'm 99.98% sure that its because you're doing the math wrong. Really. If you have 10% resistance or whatever base, and you add a 15% mod, you're not supposed to get 25%. And its not because you're getting stacking penalized. Yes you're getting the full 15% effect too.
This is why posting numbers will help :) |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
276
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 11:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Btw, if you'd like to use a spreadsheet I created to calculate resists (with stacking penalties) then feel free to use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AploM5dd7fuEdElBQ1V2c1Z1MlhkMFR5b00xTGdvREE#gid=4
Just place your resist modules in column D. Change cell D2 to your starting resists with skills, etc. |
|
Taurion Bruni
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
151
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:Taurion Bruni wrote:when placing a shield amplifier on my dropship, The first ward amplifier is supposed to add 15%, but it only adds 80% of the total effect. this continues to affect each one after, causing a massive change in total resistance. I'm 99.98% sure that its because you're doing the math wrong. Really. If you have 10% resistance or whatever base, and you add a 15% mod, you're not supposed to get 25%. And its not because you're getting stacking penalized. Yes you're getting the full 15% effect too.
Did not realize that the stack starts at first mod in presence of base stat |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
285
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:Oso Peresoso wrote:Taurion Bruni wrote:when placing a shield amplifier on my dropship, The first ward amplifier is supposed to add 15%, but it only adds 80% of the total effect. this continues to affect each one after, causing a massive change in total resistance. I'm 99.98% sure that its because you're doing the math wrong. Really. If you have 10% resistance or whatever base, and you add a 15% mod, you're not supposed to get 25%. And its not because you're getting stacking penalized. Yes you're getting the full 15% effect too. Did not realize that the stack starts at first mod in presence of base stat
In eve it doesn't so I wouldn't be so sure that he is correct. |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
285
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
It is worth noting, however, that if you already have some resistance due to skills/vehicle then the module won't add resistance in the manner you might expect.
For example:
You have 25% resistance due to skills. You apply a module that gives you 15% resistance. You will not end up with 40% resistance. You instead end up with 36.25%.
This is calculated by giving you a further 15% resistance of the 75% resistance that you have left. I.e. 75% * 15% = 11.25%. Add this to the 25% that you started with to get 36.25%.
It makes sense to do this, since otherwise it would be possible (with enough modules) to reach 100% resistance and receive zero damage. The Stacking Penalty merely exists to exacerbate the issue and ensure diminishing returns for all stacked modules (especially damage modules). |
ratamaq doc
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 16:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:It is worth noting, however, that if you already have some resistance due to skills/vehicle then the module won't add resistance in the manner you might expect.
For example:
You have 25% resistance due to skills. You apply a module that gives you 15% resistance. You will not end up with 40% resistance. You instead end up with 36.25%.
This is calculated by giving you a further 15% resistance of the 75% resistance that you have left. I.e. 75% * 15% = 11.25%. Add this to the 25% that you started with to get 36.25%.
It makes sense to do this, since otherwise it would be possible (with enough modules) to reach 100% resistance and receive zero damage. The Stacking Penalty merely exists to exacerbate the issue and ensure diminishing returns for all stacked modules (especially damage modules).
I've wondered about this myself, and you seem to know what you are talking about. So lf I may, can I verify using another example with a few questions?
Taking hacking speed reduction as the skill, with both mini Logi, and system hacking into account.
Does suite bonus x5 (25%) plus system hacking x5 (25%) = a total of 50% reduction?
Then if I add a complex code breaker (25%), does that = 25% off the remainding (50% if yes to above) or a total of 75% off the original total?
Thanks for your time. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
126
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 23:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties
Includes a calculator. |
Taurion Bruni
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
153
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 01:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
I did not realize that skills will act as a first mod, thanks for the imput |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 02:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:I did not realize that skills will act as a first mod, thanks for the imput
They don't in Eve - it's possible it's just a bug in Dust. |
843 nerfnut96
BurgezzE.T.F
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 04:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
I can verify this, my tank has a passive shield resistance of 6% and a ward amp (15%) that should come to 21% but instead comes to 18.2, i'm glad someone else saw this. |
Absolute Idiom II
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
287
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 11:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
843 nerfnut96 wrote:I can verify this, my tank has a passive shield resistance of 6% and a ward amp (15%) that should come to 21% but instead comes to 18.2, i'm glad someone else saw this.
That would mean that your module is getting the stacking penalty (of ~83% efficiency) even though it's a higher figure than your passive resist bonus. That's pretty terrible. |
KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD Covert Intervention
559
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 11:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:843 nerfnut96 wrote:I can verify this, my tank has a passive shield resistance of 6% and a ward amp (15%) that should come to 21% but instead comes to 18.2, i'm glad someone else saw this. That would mean that your module is getting the stacking penalty (of ~83% efficiency) even though it's a higher figure than your passive resist bonus. That's pretty terrible. Nor does it match the documentation.
The descriptions claims that 'additional like modules will add stacking penalties' or such (dust is down). Which would make one believe that EVE is doing it correctly and DUST has a series of bugs, all related to the latest tweaks to stacking.
If one has static armor adjustment -6%, adds a hardener -15% from their descriptions there should be no adjustment. Even though they effect the same value they are not Like Modules. At least, not to me they aren't.
Don't forget that CCP/Shanghai normally is off by one, are thereabouts, with math anyway. CPU/PG values in suits have rarely been accurate, but also not off by more than one (-ish, as I recall). This particular problem means that the alleged bonuses are actually not worth the SP.
But then, what is? |
|
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
402
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 11:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:It is worth noting, however, that if you already have some resistance due to skills/vehicle then the module won't add resistance in the manner you might expect.
For example:
You have 25% resistance due to skills. You apply a module that gives you 15% resistance. You will not end up with 40% resistance. You instead end up with 36.25%.
This is calculated by giving you a further 15% resistance of the 75% resistance that you have left. I.e. 75% * 15% = 11.25%. Add this to the 25% that you started with to get 36.25%.
It makes sense to do this, since otherwise it would be possible (with enough modules) to reach 100% resistance and receive zero damage. The Stacking Penalty merely exists to exacerbate the issue and ensure diminishing returns for all stacked modules (especially damage modules). I've wondered about this myself, and you seem to know what you are talking about. So lf I may, can I verify using another example with a few questions? Taking hacking speed reduction as the skill, with both mini Logi, and system hacking into account. Does suite bonus x5 (25%) plus system hacking x5 (25%) = a total of 50% reduction? Then if I add a complex code breaker (25%), does that = 25% off the remainding (50% if yes to above) or a total of 75% off the original total? Thanks for your time.
Well as I wrote, you can't merely add up the figures. An Adv Minmatar Logi has 3 mids, so with max skills you could have 25% reduction from hacking skill, 25% reduction from the suit and 3x 25% from the hacking modules. A total of 125% doesn't make sense!
Depending on how the stacking penalties apply I think you could expect to see something the following: (I can't remember what an unaltered hacking time is typically, but 12s sounds about right.)
http://i.imgur.com/tyTEcfV.png?1
As you can see, the 3rd module just doesn't give any tangible benefit in either case. The 2nd module is down to your own judgement. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
404
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 18:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
resistance is calculated on a base of 100, if you have 10% skill resistance your base now is 90, so it's a 15% on 90%, this is how people have explained it to me. damage goes up, resistance goes down, damage always win. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
483
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 12:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Your stacking penalties are working correctly and you are receiving no penalty on the first module.
If you have a base resistance of 10%, then adding a 15% resistance module DOES NOT bump it up to 25%. The 15% only affects the remaining 90% after base resistance.
Read this for a better explanation. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |