DUST Search - [feedback] CCP, these aren't the Eve forums.

Eris Ernaga wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

CCP, I know that you're used to listening to player feedback through the forums and even from player organizations like the CSM, but these are not Eve players.

Though some players of Dust are also players of Eve, the average Dust player is not as educated, doesn't understand business or balance,and doesn't have the advantage of experience.

Even though a percentage of posters are mature, these forums should not be relied upon like the Eve forums. Nor should the CPM be given the weight that the CSM enjoys.

For a clear example, please take note of the argument regarding polish vs content as the proper direction for Dust development.

Most here are convinced that polish is the way to go, and stubbornly defend it as though it is the "one truth" when, in reality, this will only cause Dust to whither and die.

Certainly some polish is necessary, but only the minimum required. Without new, innovative content, there is no game to sell. Content will get Dust where it needs to be, not polish.

Never has it been the case that polish has trumped content. The entire history of video games is testament to the idea that content is king, and always will be. Polish is only required in order to make the content usable.

If this were not the case, we'd all still be playing Pac Man or Pong, but they'd work through a hurricane or nuclear apocalypse.

Please wake up.

I've actually read a number of immature comments on the EVE forums as well I don't like the forums in general but their a great source of information and a great time passer as well.

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Buster Friently Rosen Association 1306	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:16:00 - [1] - Quote CCP, I know that you're used to listening to player feedback through the forums and even from player organizations like the CSM, but these are not Eve players. The average Dust player is not as educated, doesn't understand business or balance,and doesn't have the advantage of experience. These forums should not be relied upon like the Eve forums. Nor should the CPM be given the weight that the CSM enjoys. For a clear example, please take note of the argument regarding polish vs content as the proper direction for Dust development. Most here are convinced that polish is the way to go, and stubbornly defend it as though it is the "one truth" when, in reality, this will only cause Dust to whither and die. Certainly some polish is necessary, but only the minimum required. Without new, innovative content, there is no game to sell. Content will get Dust where it needs to be, not polish. Never has it been the case that polish has trumped content. The entire history of video games is testament to the idea that content is king, and always will be. Polish is only required in order to make the content usable. If this were not the case, we'd all still be playing Pac Man or Pong, but they'd work through a hurricane or nuclear apocalypse. Please wake up.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3487	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:23:00 - [2] - Quote OP, I know that you are not as optimistic about the maturity of the people here in the forums, but a lot of Dust players here also happen to be Eve players. Who do you think were to first to beta test this game?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1306	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:30:00 - [3] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: OP, I know that you are not as optimistic about the maturity of the people here in the forums, but a lot of Dust players here also happen to be Eve players. Who do you think were to first to beta test this game? That is correct. I was posting under some time pressure. I will amend my OP.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 375	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:35:00 - [4] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: CCP, I know that you're used to listening to player feedback through the forums and even from player organizations like the CSM, but these are not Eve players. Though some players of Dust are also players of Eve, the average Dust player is not as educated, doesn't understand business or balance,and doesn't have the advantage of experience. Even though a percentage of posters are mature, these forums should not be relied upon like the Eve forums. Nor should the CPM be given the weight that the CSM enjoys. For a clear example, please take note of the argument regarding polish vs content as the proper direction for Dust development. Most here are convinced that polish is the way to go, and stubbornly defend it as though it is the "one truth" when, in reality, this will only cause Dust to whither and die. Certainly some polish is necessary, but only the minimum required. Without new, innovative content, there is no game to sell. Content will get Dust where it needs to be, not polish. Never has it been the case that polish has trumped content. The entire history of video games is testament to the idea that content is king, and always will be. Polish is only required in order to make the content usable. If this were not the case, we'd all still be playing Pac Man or Pong, but they'd work through a hurricane or nuclear apocalypse. Please wake up. I've actually read a number of immature comments on the EVE forums as well I don't like the forums in general but their a great source of information and a great time passer as well.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1306	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:37:00 - [5] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CCP, I know that you're used to listening to player feedback through the forums and even from player organizations like the CSM, but these are not Eve players. Though some players of Dust are also players of Eve, the average Dust player is not as educated, doesn't understand business or balance,and doesn't have the advantage of experience. Even though a percentage of posters are mature, these forums should not be relied upon like the Eve forums. Nor should the CPM be given the weight that the CSM enjoys. For a clear example, please take note of the argument regarding polish vs content as the proper direction for Dust development. Most here are convinced that polish is the way to go, and stubbornly defend it as though it is the "one truth" when, in reality, this will only cause Dust to whither and die. Certainly some polish is necessary, but only the minimum required. Without new, innovative content, there is no game to sell. Content will get Dust where it needs to be, not polish. Never has it been the case that polish has trumped content. The entire history of video games is testament to the idea that content is king, and always will be. Polish is only required in order to make the content usable. If this were not the case, we'd all still be playing Pac Man or Pong, but they'd work through a hurricane or nuclear apocalypse. Please wake up. I've actually read a number of immature comments on the EVE forums as well I don't like the forums in general but their a great source of information and a great time passer as well. True, but the general caliber is higher.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 877	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:47:00 - [6] - Quote Sorry but, do you think devoting more than half of your OP to a elaborate ad hominem argument does anything to support your case? Your whole post could fit into: "they're stupid, therefore they're wrong and i'm right" Seriously, do you expect a reasonable discussion out of this or are you just venting some anger? Edit: And i'm not even talking about the subject because i agree with you. It's the package that puzzles me.
Midas Fool BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 69	Posted - 2013.07.27 18:16:00 - [7] - Quote You should definitely change your title. Don't mislead people if you're going to make a large scale argument like this. I think a good amount of your point is correct. Content always trumps polish. That is how a lot of broken games manage to push their way through to the polishing process. Think pretty much everything Valve. Or Blizzard. This really should be common sense, CCP. What do you get a bigger player reaction out of? The part about the forums though I can't quite agree with. Have you actually been to the EVE forums? They're about as "educated" and "experienced" as the kids reacting to the recent COD update. CCP deserves some sympathy there.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 123	Posted - 2013.07.27 21:44:00 - [8] - Quote ccp we want more content
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 251	Posted - 2013.07.27 21:55:00 - [9] - Quote If they do fix things by 1.5, at that point, they should devote most (75% or higher) into creating new things. if not, half and half. The game is basically fine now, they just need to make Laser Rifles (and not really, but slightly Plasma Cannons) viable, fix strafing, work on skill and suit bonuses, and balance vehicles.After that, just small tweaks and new stuff should come. Peace, Aizen
Namirial Kensai Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.07.28 00:27:00 - [10] - Quote ya know, EVE players were all about content too, until we had 5+ years of half-finished features, broken mechanics, poorly-thought-out chokepoints, at whcih point people said "hey, CCP, enough with the new stuff, we cant even play what we have, polish polish POLISH fix our hit", and now weve had 2-3 expansions of nothing but bugfixes, rebalances, and making exploration so easy a braindead toddler with its eyes gouged out could do as fast as an experienced scanner.

ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 170	Posted - 2013.07.28 00:47:00 - [11] - Quote I just can't wait for CCP to get done with all the ground work. Once done I feel it should go; Content = Gimme new stuff! Fix = Fix the new stuff! Balance = Take a break and ensure things are how they should be(this would include looking at the old stuff) Content = Breaks over! MORE NEW STUFF! (Begin again with step 2) `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST .
Skipper Jones Molon Labe. League of Infamy 504	Posted - 2013.07.28 00:55:00 - [12] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: I've actually read a number of immature comments on the EVE forums as well I don't like the forums in general but their a great source of information and a great time passer as well. Thats the only reason that I'm on the forums
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 1503	Posted - 2013.07.28 01:25:00 - [13] - Quote Sorry but when the core gameplay mechanics are horrible then yes polish > content. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be new content but polishing should be the priority ATM because truthfully this game has horrible aiming and hit detection (Which are vital to EVERY FPS)
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 215	Posted - 2013.07.28 01:48:00 - [14] - Quote The aiming is not nearly as bad nor the hit detection as what you are indicating sir, although some polish is still needed, I believe the core work that CCP should be doing is on new content. I am a Beta player and have been wondering how much polish exactly CCP thinks this game needs to have done before they finally decide that it is time for a player market or some NPCs to shoot at. Heck I'd be happy with a new way to kill players such as in an Arena that was proposed by several individuals a while back that CCP seemed to like. Less Polish MORE GAME please!
Namirial Kensai Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:19:00 - [15] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: The aiming is not nearly as bad nor the hit detection as what you are indicating sir, although some polish is still needed, I believe the core work that CCP should be doing is on new content. I am a Beta player and have been wondering how much polish exactly CCP thinks this game needs to have done before they finally decide that it is time for a player market or some NPCs to shoot at. Heck I'd be happy with a new way to kill players such as in an Arena that was proposed by several individuals a while back that CCP seemed to like. Less Polish MORE GAME please! instead of just "new content" i want CCP focusing on actual hardware and software issues, instead of getting new maps, i'd rather they devote the time to looking at the procedural maps so we can have hundreds of different maps that change absed on whats built there and by whom among thousands of solar systems and 7 different types fo base planets. ya know, instead of going all CoD/BF and getting 1 new map every couple months.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 144	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:54:00 - [16] - Quote Your argument has a flaw OP. If what you say is true, then why should they listen to you? Polish vs New Content? I think both are important. Because not every player has the same preferences. Some people probably don't care about where they fight,, they just want good gameplay. For these people the gameplay needs to be polished. They want a balanced game, they want good controls. They care about the core mechanics. Other people, like me for example, actually don't care if everything is perfectly balanced. I also can live with the current aiming system and so on. People like me care about lots of content. Maybe also about many interactions with Eve Online. For these players they have to release new content every now and then. In my personal opinion CCP has to find a balance between polishing gameplay and creating new content. I personally disagree with their current "We will work on PvE as soon as the core gameplay is polished". I would love to see a PvE mode in one of the next updates, even if it's a very basic one to start with.


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