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Pandora Mars
Afterlife Overseers
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello.
First of all, I'd like to clarify that my knowledge and experience with vehicles is close to 0. I'm full-time infantry.
I'm making this post because I really want to understand, there is no trace of hyrony, sarcasm, QQ, etc. in my words.
So, here's my doubt:
Everytime I login here on the forums I can read several threads about HAV being underpowered and AV being OP. The most discussed reason is "there is PRO AV but there aren't PRO HAV". But that's not the only thing people complain about. After reading about 20-30 HAV threads I see that the majority of HAV users think that HAV are generally underperforming.
That said, what I don't understand is how I still (and it's not rare at all) run into virtually invincible HAV getting the monopoly of the whole battle and slaughtering people indiscriminately, going 35-0 almost everytime.
In particular there is one guy (I'm not sure if I can post his name, but it's in the top page of the leaderboard with a 20+ KDR, you can't go wrong) that I always find in Ambush matches that simply incarnates my idea of pubstomping at its "finest". I think he plays A LOT, because whenever I pick Ambush I might find him.
His tank is... wow. Crazy. I do my best to blow it up but, no matter what I do, I never ever stand a chance. It has simply an atonishing amount of HP and whenever I manage to damage it (so that I can actually see a missing piece from its shield bar) it just takes cover and I can't follow it without exposing myself to certain, quick death. This tank is becoming my nightmare in Ambush matches. As personal experience, this is much worst and brutal than running into a full squad of protostompers.
Even though a Falchion is not a PRO tank, that's what it looks like in these situations. If PRO tanks are introduced, I can't even imagine how powerful they would be.
So I'm not saying I don't believe you when you say your HAV is underpowered. But I can't understand. If you can explain me, please, this HUGE difference (between your underperforming tank and THIS tank) and if you got any hint to help me against that thing, that is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
|
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
927
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm too tired to into this soon-to-be-kittenfest-of-a-thread, but I first want to say this:
Ambush dynamics and balance are inherently different from Skirmish due to many factors.
As a Skirmish player, I am only interested in how HAVs perform in skirmish where AV is significantly more of a threat due to the prevalence of Supply Depots, Safe Zones of Resupply, and more organized Spawn Points for the enemy. |
Pandora Mars
Afterlife Overseers
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:I'm too tired to into this soon-to-be-kittenfest-of-a-thread, but I first want to say this:
Ambush dynamics and balance are inherently different from Skirmish due to many factors.
As a Skirmish player, I am only interested in how HAVs perform in skirmish where AV is significantly more of a threat due to the prevalence of Supply Depots, Safe Zones of Resupply, and more organized Spawn Points for the enemy.
Ok, so game mode is an important factor, I see.
How to implement stronger HAV without making things... ugh... even worse in Ambush? |
Ignoble Son
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pandora Mars wrote:Hello.
First of all, I'd like to clarify that my knowledge and experience with vehicles is close to 0. I'm full-time infantry.
I'm making this post because I really want to understand, there is no trace of hyrony, sarcasm, QQ, etc. in my words.
So, here's my doubt:
Everytime I login here on the forums I can read several threads about HAV being underpowered and AV being OP. The most discussed reason is "there is PRO AV but there aren't PRO HAV". But that's not the only thing people complain about. After reading about 20-30 HAV threads I see that the majority of HAV users think that HAV are generally underperforming.
That said, what I don't understand is how I still (and it's not rare at all) run into virtually invincible HAV getting the monopoly of the whole battle and slaughtering people indiscriminately, going 35-0 almost everytime.
In particular there is one guy (I'm not sure if I can post his name, but it's in the top page of the leaderboard with a 20+ KDR, you can't go wrong) that I always find in Ambush matches that simply incarnates my idea of pubstomping at its "finest". I think he plays A LOT, because whenever I pick Ambush I might find him.
His tank is... wow. Crazy. I do my best to blow it up but, no matter what I do, I never ever stand a chance. It has simply an atonishing amount of HP and whenever I manage to damage it (so that I can actually see a missing piece from its shield bar) it just takes cover and I can't follow it without exposing myself to certain, quick death. This tank is becoming my nightmare in Ambush matches. As personal experience, this is much worst and brutal than running into a full squad of protostompers.
Even though a Falchion is not a PRO tank, that's what it looks like in these situations. If PRO tanks are introduced, I can't even imagine how powerful they would be.
So I'm not saying I don't believe you when you say your HAV is underpowered. But I can't understand. If you can explain me, please, this HUGE difference (between your underperforming tank and THIS tank) and if you got any hint to help me against that thing, that is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Stop firing mlt swarms at him. Learn some tactics. I haven't met a tank that has enough HP to stop me from taking them down. ALL tanks die to mlt LAV and two guys with AV nades, or one guy and a nano hive. |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
539
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
you have to understand how tanks defend, once you do that, they aint bad, also, real AV fucks tanks up fast. If its a sielder, down waste your time swarming him, unless you have great swarmers, shielders can laugh swarms off for the most. |
Luk Manag
of Terror
62
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
If somebody has Lai Dai Packed AV Grenades, and they can sneak past the squad you have defending your tank, they'll roast you. |
KenKaniff69
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
166
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pandora Mars wrote:Hello.
First of all, I'd like to clarify that my knowledge and experience with vehicles is close to 0. I'm full-time infantry.
I'm making this post because I really want to understand, there is no trace of hyrony, sarcasm, QQ, etc. in my words.
So, here's my doubt:
Everytime I login here on the forums I can read several threads about HAV being underpowered and AV being OP. The most discussed reason is "there is PRO AV but there aren't PRO HAV". But that's not the only thing people complain about. After reading about 20-30 HAV threads I see that the majority of HAV users think that HAV are generally underperforming.
That said, what I don't understand is how I still (and it's not rare at all) run into virtually invincible HAV getting the monopoly of the whole battle and slaughtering people indiscriminately, going 35-0 almost everytime.
In particular there is one guy (I'm not sure if I can post his name, but it's in the top page of the leaderboard with a 20+ KDR, you can't go wrong) that I always find in Ambush matches that simply incarnates my idea of pubstomping at its "finest". I think he plays A LOT, because whenever I pick Ambush I might find him.
His tank is... wow. Crazy. I do my best to blow it up but, no matter what I do, I never ever stand a chance. It has simply an atonishing amount of HP and whenever I manage to damage it (so that I can actually see a missing piece from its shield bar) it just takes cover and I can't follow it without exposing myself to certain, quick death. This tank is becoming my nightmare in Ambush matches. As personal experience, this is much worst and brutal than running into a full squad of protostompers.
Even though a Falchion is not a PRO tank, that's what it looks like in these situations. If PRO tanks are introduced, I can't even imagine how powerful they would be.
So I'm not saying I don't believe you when you say your HAV is underpowered. But I can't understand. If you can explain me, please, this HUGE difference (between your underperforming tank and THIS tank) and if you got any hint to help me against that thing, that is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Tanking is the toughest it has ever been this build. It is now to the point where only the best players have skilled into tanks and they use them every match because it is where the majority of their SP is. The lesser tankers have been weeded out or rarely call their equipment in. Considering the players KD is so high he most likely fits my description. Tanks are UP, but the drivers who are left or who are leaving are the most concentrated group ever. |
Sarducar Kahn
xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
The problem is that CCP are trying to balance the tanks for Proto and mlt AV. When/if Proto tanks are re-introduced the other tanks would get nerfed to compensate. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
984
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
im too lazy to response in full. tanks are unbalance between themselves right now.(two different bugs effecting basically the same thing) tanks are unbalanced vs AV due to av nades non-AV users as well the recent nerfs in damage&pg and speed(caldari) and removal of chassis mods(also caldari) removal of Marauder HAVs which proto av was balanced on, not enforcer HAVs. so what you have left is AV based on a stronger HAV that was removed from the game totally wrecking face on what we have now, standard and tech 2 standard tanks. well that is it in a nutshell. |
Grunt Shade
Ahrendee Frontlinez Omega Commission
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
To answer the original question. Its skilled pilots of those tanks that make it so hard. He or She learned how to balance a tank with higher resistance modules and probably advanced turrets maybe a proto depending on useage and some mods with heavy repairs |
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Void Echo
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
845
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
the thing is, you went up against probable one of our A-List tankers, the A listers are the hardest tanks to kill in the game and its fun to fight these battles, you were probably using militia grade AV weapons while he was using advanced or prototype modules, with that said, you wouldv easily taken him down with proto AV.. |
Pandora Mars
Afterlife Overseers
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:the thing is, you went up against probable one of our A-List tankers, the A listers are the hardest tanks to kill in the game and its fun to fight these battles, you were probably using militia grade AV weapons while he was using advanced or prototype modules, with that said, you wouldv easily taken him down with proto AV..
ADV Swarm Launcher and STD AV nades. I know is not enough, but the fact is that NO ONE in the battle will ever take it down... or at least never see him losing a tank. |
Void Echo
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
845
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pandora Mars wrote:Void Echo wrote:the thing is, you went up against probable one of our A-List tankers, the A listers are the hardest tanks to kill in the game and its fun to fight these battles, you were probably using militia grade AV weapons while he was using advanced or prototype modules, with that said, you wouldv easily taken him down with proto AV.. ADV Swarm Launcher and STD AV nades. I know is not enough, but the fact is that NO ONE in the battle will ever take it down... or at least never see him losing a tank.
not true, with the state of the av/vehicle balance, anyone can solo us if they have av grenades or a nanohive with any type of av weapon... |
CoD isAIDS
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pandora Mars wrote:
That said, what I don't understand is how I still (and it's not rare at all) run into virtually invincible HAV getting the monopoly of the whole battle and slaughtering people indiscriminately, going 35-0 almost everytime.
In particular there is one guy (I'm not sure if I can post his name, but it's in the top page of the leaderboard with a 20+ KDR, you can't go wrong) that I always find in Ambush matches that simply incarnates my idea of pubstomping at its "finest". I think he plays A LOT, because whenever I pick Ambush I might find him.
You answered your own thread.
Add: PRO pub stomping.
/thread |
Ignoble Son
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pandora Mars wrote:Void Echo wrote:the thing is, you went up against probable one of our A-List tankers, the A listers are the hardest tanks to kill in the game and its fun to fight these battles, you were probably using militia grade AV weapons while he was using advanced or prototype modules, with that said, you wouldv easily taken him down with proto AV.. ADV Swarm Launcher and STD AV nades. I know is not enough, but the fact is that NO ONE in the battle will ever take it down... or at least never see him losing a tank.
Not nearly enough. But the damage buff from proficiency and complex damage mods, is quit OP. I am assuming that you are a relitively new player doing mostly lone wolfing. It is probably some vet training up an alt. And getting thrown in with people with significantly less experience with this game. I remember going through the academy resently with a relatively new alt, it was laughable. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
247
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
You can't kill a falch with ADV swarms and STD AV nades? wtf......... |
dr dreams
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tankers likely wouldn't mind as much if the cost for everything was diminished, OR we receive larger payouts for our time on the battlefield.
210k isk a match won't cut it. Random 550k payouts are nice, but they're random.
I made my very first complaint thread yesterday about this.
Fix the isk issue, and we should calm down. That, or give us tanks worth the cost. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1286
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pandora Mars wrote:Void Echo wrote:the thing is, you went up against probable one of our A-List tankers, the A listers are the hardest tanks to kill in the game and its fun to fight these battles, you were probably using militia grade AV weapons while he was using advanced or prototype modules, with that said, you wouldv easily taken him down with proto AV.. ADV Swarm Launcher and STD AV nades. I know is not enough, but the fact is that NO ONE in the battle will ever take it down... or at least never see him losing a tank.
Too many factors to consider, tough call.
He is clearly one of the most skilled tankers in the game though, but that doesn't reflect the state of tanks in the least.
Close friend of mine "The Spinner" runs caldari assault and regularly goes 20+/0 in pub games. That's just when we two man squad it. Does that make caldari assaults overpowered? In fact a lot of people argue its the worst assault suit in the game atm.
So you are seeing an isolated case with a single strong tanker.
What you aren't saying is that everytime you see a tank drop on the field its game over and you might as well quit the game.
In fact... I think there are maybe 10 tank drivers in the entire game i'm even remotely afraid of... while there are probably several hundred infantry guys who will stomp my poor little logi suit all day long.
See the difference? |
Void Echo
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
845
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Pandora Mars wrote:Void Echo wrote:the thing is, you went up against probable one of our A-List tankers, the A listers are the hardest tanks to kill in the game and its fun to fight these battles, you were probably using militia grade AV weapons while he was using advanced or prototype modules, with that said, you wouldv easily taken him down with proto AV.. ADV Swarm Launcher and STD AV nades. I know is not enough, but the fact is that NO ONE in the battle will ever take it down... or at least never see him losing a tank. Too many factors to consider, tough call. He is clearly one of the most skilled tankers in the game though, but that doesn't reflect the state of tanks in the least. Close friend of mine "The Spinner" runs caldari assault and regularly goes 20+/0 in pub games. That's just when we two man squad it. Does that make caldari assaults overpowered? In fact a lot of people argue its the worst assault suit in the game atm. So you are seeing an isolated case with a single strong tanker. What you aren't saying is that everytime you see a tank drop on the field its game over and you might as well quit the game. In fact... I think there are maybe 10 tank drivers in the entire game i'm even remotely afraid of... while there are probably several hundred infantry guys who will stomp my poor little logi suit all day long. See the difference?
oooo do tell |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1099
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
A really good tank takes at least 2 people with reasonable AV set ups and skill/experience to take down. In ambush matches people don't often run AV gear because they can't change out of it to deal with infantry if they can't get to the tank or the tank gets killed or recalled or something. |
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Exergonic
TeamPlayers EoN.
253
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
You just need to be smart on how you take down a tank
I've seen shield tanks die to flux spam + Mass Driver
ADV Swarms aren't the best but... Wait for that tank to be out in the open and you should be able to put a good hurtin on him
another thing is you need to use counters... Armor tank use Swarms... Shields use Flux and forge |
Sir Meode
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
782
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
if you were attacking a shield tank with swarms you will always struggle, same goes if you attack an armour tank with a forgegun.
Choose your weapon to match the vehicle type and catch them in the open or really tight spaces.
Then you will have 1 dead tank |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
929
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sir Meode wrote:same goes if you attack an armour tank with a forgegun.
Why? In-Game forges have base 90% vs shields and base 110% versus armor. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1099
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Exergonic wrote:You just need to be smart on how you take down a tank
I've seen shield tanks die to flux spam + Mass Driver
ADV Swarms aren't the best but... Wait for that tank to be out in the open and you should be able to put a good hurtin on him
another thing is you need to use counters... Armor tank use Swarms... Shields use Flux and forge It's almost impossible to get a decent hit on any vehicle with a flux. |
postmanclark2
Talon Strike Force LTD Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
So this topic is based on Duna2002 - the guy is probably one of the best tankers in the game. The best because he's KDR is so high and I have rarely seen him lose a tank. Atthough one note, I haven't seem him come up against any real tough opposition, or run into him in any other game mode than ambush.
I have actually squadded with this guy, for a few hours - so I know the rough tactics. This is one guy that I game with, who is a pretty good tanker and he takes up the challenge of tanking against Duna. Anyway, he's taken Duna's tanks out a few times.
So the usual squad with Duna is Black heart 555 and someone else, in We are Legends. They usually roll 3 tanks, although sometimes they run with infantry too.
Duna runs a shield tank, I think with NOS or the proto equivalent. When he takes some hits, he backs up and if things are getting hectic, the infantry jumps out to delay the advance.
So the standard answer / best way to take Duna out is to use squad tactics. Get a couple of good tankers and a couple of AV guys to take him out. I realise that this is an obvious (and crap answer).
If your playing with a squad of infantry (or by yourself), use height to your advantage. Get inside whatever city or on top of any structure you can, in order not to be caught on the ground. Equip AV grenades to fend off he's tank and kill the infantry.
The smartest answer to solo a tank, is to sneak up on he's tank, lay down a nanohive (use some cover hopefully) and spam the **** out of he's tank with good AV grenades. If anyone else in the team joins in, you could be onto a winner.
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Pandora Mars
Afterlife Overseers
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
postmanclark2 wrote:So this topic is based on Duna2002 - the guy is probably one of the best tankers in the game. The best because he's KDR is so high and I have rarely seen him lose a tank. Atthough one note, I haven't seem him come up against any real tough opposition, or run into him in any other game mode than ambush.
I have actually squadded with this guy, for a few hours - so I know the rough tactics. This is one guy that I game with, who is a pretty good tanker and he takes up the challenge of tanking against Duna. Anyway, he's taken Duna's tanks out a few times.
So the usual squad with Duna is Black heart 555 and someone else, in We are Legends. They usually roll 3 tanks, although sometimes they run with infantry too.
Duna runs a shield tank, I think with NOS or the proto equivalent. When he takes some hits, he backs up and if things are getting hectic, the infantry jumps out to delay the advance.
So the standard answer / best way to take Duna out is to use squad tactics. Get a couple of good tankers and a couple of AV guys to take him out. I realise that this is an obvious (and crap answer).
If your playing with a squad of infantry (or by yourself), use height to your advantage. Get inside whatever city or on top of any structure you can, in order not to be caught on the ground. Equip AV grenades to fend off he's tank and kill the infantry.
The smartest answer to solo a tank, is to sneak up on he's tank, lay down a nanohive (use some cover hopefully) and spam the **** out of he's tank with good AV grenades. If anyone else in the team joins in, you could be onto a winner.
Your guess is right, even thought he is not the only one with such an awesome tank.
Your hints are very precious, thank you very much. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
986
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Sir Meode wrote:same goes if you attack an armour tank with a forgegun. Why? In-Game forges have base 90% vs armor and base 110% versus shields fixed that for 4 you. |
Charlotte O'Dell
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
759
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quick answer:
He's a good tanker but watch him in PC and it'll turn out very differently. Balancing tanks in pubs is stupid BC mathlchmaling does not exist. |
Ynned Ivanova
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 22:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
He Is good, but not unkillable. His situational awareness is his strength. Loved my battles over last few days with him, granted as soon as I see him on the other team he is my only real target, I have literally spent half a game getting into a position where Ican land consecutive hits without him being able to get away.
If hes on mine ill gladly run Inf support and gun for him.
Elevation is key to dealing with a good HAV , it can be close or way off in the hills each have their strengths.
Oh aye Wik Swarm, 3 complex mods , level 4 prof. |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 23:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:If somebody has Lai Dai Packed AV Grenades, and they can sneak past the squad you have defending your tank, they'll roast you.
HAH! Sneak he says!
I prefer this games version of the Jihad Jeep. Drive through them then let rip those nades!
He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results.
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom. |
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SGT NOVA STAR
No Corporation Specified
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 23:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
never heard of him. i miss the original tankers, sleepy, furry, ninja, legend, bon bons!, dr spaz, ect. missing a few there i know. the fresh faces are keeping this game somewhat alive. |
dr dreams
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 23:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
My tank wouldn't blow up as much if I had a good squad to roll with.
The issues of being in a small corp... |
CoD isAIDS
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 03:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
SGT NOVA STAR wrote:never heard of him. i miss the original tankers, sleepy, furry, ninja, legend, bon bons!, dr spaz, ect. missing a few there i know. the fresh faces are keeping this game somewhat alive. If you tank in skirmish, then that's probably why you've never heard of him.
I very rarely jump into ambush, and that's why I've never heard of him.
It's quite different when you're able to lolstomp everyone, and when you have to worry about other tanks and installations picking away at your HP. |
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