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hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
157
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
So why would anyone waste the 8x SP on the minnie scout over the light frames? Heres the pros/cons:
Scout:
Pros
-costs less ISK per suit
-5% scan dampening per level (25% in total)
-+5% melee and nova knife damage per level
Cons
-to get level 5 it costs about 1.3mil SP more than it takes to get basic light level 5
-blue isn't as cool as a black suit 
Basic Light:
Pros
-costs a lot less SP to get level 5 than scout
-black suit is cooler than blue
Cons
-costs about 15k ISK more than scout per suit
-doesn't have passive bonus's
Overall they have the exact same stats besides these things I listed... what do you think is more worth it? |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
745
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you knife, the proto scout skill is worth it. but running the actual suit is not.
Get lv 5 min scout, then run the ADV suit aka the M/1. The extra 25% dampening (when it works) is also worth it. The lower price, IMO, is just a nice lil bonus on the side. |
Eriknaught
Vader's Taco Shack
113
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
You make good points. But I'll take my +25% damage to my Ishukone Knives, one-shotting heavies is VERY worth the SP investment.
That is all. Eriknaught out. END TRANSMISSION. |
Gordon WarHammer
Corporate Industrial Industries Corporation
6
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
depends on what you want to do... sounds like a light scout would be a good runner to scurry around and try to hack instalations with out being seen. obviously it cost more SP cause you get a couple of bonuses to your suit per level over the standard suit. so it sounds like the question should be.... why would you waste the isk on the more expensive suit that isnt as good as the cheaper/better one? |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
474
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, unless you're planning on being a ninja knifer, the basic suit will always be good enough.
The isk cost is also a good bonus, so I'd spec into the basic scout suit at least to be able to run cheaper fits.
The assault suit is like this too, although I think the bonuses are much more worthwhile. I wish that CCP would make the basic suits more basic, and the role specific ones more dedicated to the roll.
For instance, the basic frame minmatar should have slower movement speed and higher profile to be easily detected, whereas the scout should have another equipment slot at proto |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3196
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think Gallente Scout > Minmatar scout. You get more low slots for dampeners, Kin Cats, Regulators CPU/PG enhancers...etc and a complex stimulant in that high slot can make up for not being able to OHK with a kife by a powerful melee hit... that usually does OHK. |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
157
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 22:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think Gallente Scout > Minmatar scout. You get more low slots for dampeners, Kin Cats, Regulators CPU/PG enhancers...etc and a complex stimulant in that high slot can make up for not being able to OHK with a kife by a powerful melee hit... that usually does OHK.
Yah but you give up shields, yes I am flaming you...  |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3196
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:Cosgar wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think Gallente Scout > Minmatar scout. You get more low slots for dampeners, Kin Cats, Regulators CPU/PG enhancers...etc and a complex stimulant in that high slot can make up for not being able to OHK with a kife by a powerful melee hit... that usually does OHK. Yah but you give up shields, yes I am flaming you...
Shields or armor, you're still squishy as a scout. If they ever fix the hitbox issue, scouts could get more survivability. |
First Prophet
Jaguar Empire
708
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think Gallente Scout > Minmatar scout. You get more low slots for dampeners, Kin Cats, Regulators CPU/PG enhancers...etc and a complex stimulant in that high slot can make up for not being able to OHK with a kife by a powerful melee hit... that usually does OHK.
Pretty much.
The gallente racial scan bonus is also better.
+5% basic melee damage? On the frame size that does the lowest melee damage?
+5% nova knife damage is nice if you use nova knifes, but that doesn't do anything to give the suit a role on the field. Nova knife detection is also off, and still a UP weapon even with the bonus.
Only thing the minmatar scout has over the gallente is that it has better hp. But at the proto level that hp bonus might as well not be there. |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
487
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think Gallente Scout > Minmatar scout. You get more low slots for dampeners, Kin Cats, Regulators CPU/PG enhancers...etc and a complex stimulant in that high slot can make up for not being able to OHK with a kife by a powerful melee hit... that usually does OHK.
Myofibril Stimulant affects fisticuffs only, doesn't augment shanking. Would upgrade your punch from 80hp to 140hp but otherwise nothing.
The base 80 hp melee on lights makes the melee bonus of Minjas a bit of a dud truth be told. Comes on the suit class assigned the lowest melee damage. A flat +10 damage per level might open up the way for a somewhat feasible martial artist wannabe build. 130 damage at proto instead of 100. Not sure if Myofibrils get stacking penalties but if not it means two of them would net you a 325hp damage melee.
Currently two Com Myos would get you 250hp and this is all assuming no stacking penalty.
...I miss that scout suit from Chromosome that had a base melee damage of 285. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3196
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:Pretty much.
The gallente racial scan bonus is also better.
+5% basic melee damage? On the frame size that does the lowest melee damage?
+5% nova knife damage is nice if you use nova knifes, but that doesn't do anything to give the suit a role on the field. Nova knife detection is also off, and still a UP weapon even with the bonus.
Only thing the minmatar scout has over the gallente is that it has better hp. But at the proto level that hp bonus might as well not be there.
Scan bonus is a little underpowered from what I've seen. My scout fitting consists of the ADV/Proto with a TAC AR/Knives, scanner, enhancer, and dampener. The module, skill, or drosuit scan radius need a buff- dampening seems somewhat okay. I tend to play battle sniper on maps that don't favor knives and usually kill someone faster than they have time to find out where I'm shooting from.
Poplo Furuya wrote:[quote=Cosgar]Myofibril Stimulant affects fisticuffs only, doesn't augment shanking. Would upgrade your punch from 80hp to 140hp but otherwise nothing.
The base 80 hp melee on lights makes the melee bonus of Minjas a bit of a dud truth be told. Comes on the suit class assigned the lowest melee damage. A flat +10 damage per level might open up the way for a somewhat feasible martial artist wannabe build. 130 damage at proto instead of 100. Not sure if Myofibrils get stacking penalties but if not it means two of them would net you a 325hp damage melee.
Currently two Com Myos would get you 250hp and this is all assuming no stacking penalty.
...I miss that scout suit from Chromosome that had a base melee damage of 285.
Yeah, I know stims only affect H2H combat, but what do you do if your knife strike doesn't OHK? Follow up with a melee hit! |
BARDAS
DUST University
Ivy League
228
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
If I wasn't using Nova Knives I possibly wouldn't be using the Minmatar Scout suit at all. I like the bonus for the knives is why I use it. Though the extra HP from the Minmatar Scout may not seem like much but it could be the difference between a sniper one shotting you or taking you down to a few slivers of armor but you having time to escape with your life.
EDIT: Gallente seems attractive because of the ability to really go overboard and triple or quadruple stack the kincats that is about all I can think of. I think if you were not going to use Nova Knives your best bet would be to go Gallente for the ability to stack speed mods and become the Flash. |
Xender17
Intrepidus XI
EoN.
383
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
If the stats of the pilot skill weren't placeholders. It's 74,000 base 12x multiplier. Be glad bro |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
157
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 23:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:If the stats of the pilot skill weren't placeholders. It's 74,000 base 12x multiplier. Be glad bro
Hey you're the guy with the really good shield tank! Seriously you are the best tanker evar |
Eriknaught
Vader's Taco Shack
115
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
BARDAS wrote:If I wasn't using Nova Knives I possibly wouldn't be using the Minmatar Scout suit at all. I like the bonus for the knives is why I use it. Though the extra HP from the Minmatar Scout may not seem like much but it could be the difference between a sniper one shotting you or taking you down to a few slivers of armor but you having time to escape with your life.
EDIT: Gallente seems attractive because of the ability to really go overboard and triple or quadruple stack the kincats that is about all I can think of. I think if you were not going to use Nova Knives your best bet would be to go Gallente for the ability to stack speed mods and become the Flash.
^This, I've never been one-shotted by a sniper in either ADV or PRO Minmatar Scout. That little bit goes a long ways.
That is all. Eriknaught out. END TRANSMISSION. |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
147
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 23:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
gallente can stack ferroscale plates also
on my light frame proto I have one enhanced ferroscale one enhanced plate one enhanced kincat
and a complex repper and one enhanced shield extender it totals out to 419
thats not that bad IMO once I can spec complex it will be even better |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
157
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 23:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:gallente can stack ferroscale plates also
on my light frame proto I have one enhanced ferroscale one enhanced plate one enhanced kincat
and a complex repper and one enhanced shield extender it totals out to 419
thats not that bad IMO once I can spec complex it will be even better
I forgot about ferroscale... hmm sounds fun! |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
147
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 23:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:gallente can stack ferroscale plates also
on my light frame proto I have one enhanced ferroscale one enhanced plate one enhanced kincat
and a complex repper and one enhanced shield extender it totals out to 419
thats not that bad IMO once I can spec complex it will be even better I forgot about ferroscale... hmm sounds fun! you get more hp out of ferroscale then shield extenders |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
League of Infamy
1547
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 00:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bonuses the Minmatar Light should have
+5% sprint speed per level *for basic and scout*
Scout
+10% knife damage per level
-15% sig radius per level
Then it'll have a real edge at it's role of movement speed and staying off the minimap. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
801
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Posted - 2013.07.26 00:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Only if you are going to use nova knives, otherwise don't waste your time. You have to keep in mind that because everyone's scan radius is 10 meters you aren't going to get much advantages from the reduction in profile signature - even if you are sneaking within 10 meters of someone's back you're probably in position to kill them before they notice anyways. |
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Quil Evrything
U.N.S.C. secter V
0
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Posted - 2013.08.13 06:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Only if you are going to use nova knives, otherwise don't waste your time. You have to keep in mind that because everyone's scan radius is 10 meters you aren't going to get much advantages from the reduction in profile signature - even if you are sneaking within 10 meters of someone's back you're probably in position to kill them before they notice anyways.
Correction to your post:
Most people's *Passive* scan radius is 10 meters. However, active scan (ie: through a scope), is much, much, further.
I wonder just how much dampening, and how much safety range, is needed, before you dont get lit up by an enemy scope?
Lets just talk about the basic militia one first, if anyone can do tests?
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
378
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Posted - 2013.08.13 07:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think scouts are not at all the knifing meleeing machines they were initially conceived as. Nova knives mechanics work very poorly. So even ppl who like the idea of a knifing ninja sooner or later tend to give up and abandon melee tactics. With this in mind the melee bonuses are sorta useless, making scout proper not attractive even to scout enthusiasts. |
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