DUST Search - The Useless Weapons

2Bee Smith wrote:

These are what I find to be the "useless" weapons/vehicles in Dust ATM. Theres no need for weapons to be futile
Laser Rifle-Too little damage
Flaylock-Too Little Damage (In the upcoming patch)
HMG-Crap Range and Increased Strafe speeds mean they're ineffective
Plasma Cannon- Serves no role
Nova Knife- Close to useless

I understand that you want each weapon to fit their specific niche but too often when things get nerfed or implemented, they're nerfed/implemented for fear of being too OP.

I was reading a thread about a guy's first experience with a laser rifle, he went 1-11...
But people were saying that you need complex damage mods, and an Amarr Suit and proficiency V and all these things. You shouldn't have to put in 1.5 million SP in order to go positive with a weapon. It seems that the AR is the meterstick for all the guns. It seems that the AR will be the untouchable child of all the weapons.

While I don't necessarily think it should get a nerf, I do feel that you should bring these weak weapons back into the realm of "Good" and if things are unbalanced, there should be subtle nerfs instead of giant nerfs that tend to happen all too often.

I believe in you, CCP and I believe in your vision. I just want to help along the way

Edit: I have a sneaking suspicion that the Laser Rifle will make a comeback though

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2Bee Smith The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 29	Posted - 2013.07.25 05:56:00 - [1] - Quote These are what I find to be the "useless" weapons/vehicles in Dust ATM. Theres no need for weapons to be futile Laser Rifle-Too little damage Flaylock-Too Little Damage (In the upcoming patch) HMG-Crap Range and Increased Strafe speeds mean they're ineffective Plasma Cannon- Serves no role Nova Knife- Close to useless I understand that you want each weapon to fit their specific niche but too often when things get nerfed or implemented, they're nerfed/implemented for fear of being too OP. I was reading a thread about a guy's first experience with a laser rifle, he went 1-11... But people were saying that you need complex damage mods, and an Amarr Suit and proficiency V and all these things. You shouldn't have to put in 1.5 million SP in order to go positive with a weapon. It seems that the AR is the meterstick for all the guns. It seems that the AR will be the untouchable child of all the weapons. While I don't necessarily think it should get a nerf, I do feel that you should bring these weak weapons back into the realm of "Good" and if things are unbalanced, there should be subtle nerfs instead of giant nerfs that tend to happen all too often. I believe in you, CCP and I believe in your vision
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 17	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:02:00 - [2] - Quote I totally do not understand the plasma cannon, yeah, that one is totally worthless. Flaylock I think will still be OK, it's not supposed to be a primary weapon. But, oh the laser rifle, man that thing was bad-ass when I first started playing 4-5 months ago. It got absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer and is long overdue for a buff, I mean, you barely ever see it anymore.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 178	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:06:00 - [3] - Quote Saw a guy get a kill with a Laser Rifle tonight. Looked pretty sweet. Yet when I try out the burnstalkers from the LR give away they have a hard time reaching out and killing. It's been bad enough the few times deployed this week that the problem feels like a glitch.
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 114	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:06:00 - [4] - Quote I agree the LR was a nightmare months ago. I hated it, it was like a lightsaber or a deadly Pink Floyd laser light show. No I just walk by it and do not even flinch anymore. Man was those were the days, full of fun and adventure. Never to knew who or what was going to teach you a lesson
Phantom Vaxer The Generals EoN. 52	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:21:00 - [5] - Quote The Flaylock is not gonna become nerfed into uselessness. It will still do good damage but probably wont replace primaries anymore as often. Plasma Cannon needs a little tweaking with more variants but its pretty awesome. I OHK fatties with it :D
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream 149	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:24:00 - [6] - Quote Nothing is wrong with the HMG if you can use it correctly,,,
Skipper Jones Molon Labe. League of Infamy 489	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:31:00 - [7] - Quote I don't think that the Flaylock will be nerfed into uselessness. I'd wait until it plays out. Haven't really experienced the HMG so can't really disagree Laser rifles used to be the thing back then. Now the scopes are crap. I think everyone can agree that the plasma cannon needs some love. May not be useful, but its so fun to use. Getting a kill with the worst gun in the game is so satisfying. Nova knives..... I can't really say. I know they aren't OP but they seem to do their job pretty well. Not really sure. Used to be proto nova knives but haven't used 'em since uprising. Your list seems accurate. Skipper Jones stamp of approval. (Doesn't really mean anything)
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1911	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:32:00 - [8] - Quote I have an alt that uses laser rifles to a scary efficiency. If I hang back from the group a bit and fire within optimal, I take people down faster than an AR can. It almost feels like the Chromosome Viziam.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 404	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:33:00 - [9] - Quote 2Bee Smith wrote: These are what I find to be the "useless" weapons/vehicles in Dust ATM. Theres no need for weapons to be futile Laser Rifle-Too little damage Flaylock-Too Little Damage (In the upcoming patch) HMG-Crap Range and Increased Strafe speeds mean they're ineffective Plasma Cannon- Serves no role Nova Knife- Close to useless I understand that you want each weapon to fit their specific niche but too often when things get nerfed or implemented, they're nerfed/implemented for fear of being too OP. I was reading a thread about a guy's first experience with a laser rifle, he went 1-11... But people were saying that you need complex damage mods, and an Amarr Suit and proficiency V and all these things. You shouldn't have to put in 1.5 million SP in order to go positive with a weapon. It seems that the AR is the meterstick for all the guns. It seems that the AR will be the untouchable child of all the weapons. While I don't necessarily think it should get a nerf, I do feel that you should bring these weak weapons back into the realm of "Good" and if things are unbalanced, there should be subtle nerfs instead of giant nerfs that tend to happen all too often. I believe in you, CCP and I believe in your vision. I just want to help along the way Edit: I have a sneaking suspicion that the Laser Rifle will make a comeback though just curious .. how many sp do have invested in each of these weapons you say are useless... and how much have you used each one? is this just word of mouth you are speaking from or personal experience?
TunRa The Vanguardians 15	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:33:00 - [10] - Quote Here are some more useless weapons.

Thumb Green THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo 221	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:46:00 - [11] - Quote I don't think the problem with the laser rifle is too low of damage which if I'm not mistaken was 15 on standard & advanced LR's back in chromosome and I got plenty of kills with it just at level one. Now I wasn't one of the dreaded laser overlords but I got my share of hate mail. Even if the damage was 17 as it is now only means that it was as strong then as now (of course the viziam is weaker). The problem with the laser rifle as I see it is... well I just can't see it when it is what I'm trying to aim at. Though come 1.4 the LR will get a red dot sight and people will be able to see what the hell they're shooting at again The Flaylock, too little damage after 1.3? Dafuq? It'll still be able to do a combined base damage of 305 per shot. Against shields that'd be around 274 and against armor it's around 396. And that's not accounting for any damage mods; too little damage my ass.
Echoist Fenrir's Wolves RUST415 41	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:49:00 - [12] - Quote The laser rifle is not useless, but i do agree with you when you say you shouldn't have to spend a bunch of sp into the gun just so it becomes a viable weapon. Its a defensive weapon and a lot of the maps focus on a city or outpost and that's not where this gun shines. Once you master it you can easily go 20+ kills with typically no more than 3-5 deaths and that's running an advance suit no proto and the std laser rifle with lvl 5 proficiency.
Syther Shadows The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 375	Posted - 2013.07.25 06:55:00 - [13] - Quote Laser rifle has a few tricks you need to use to use it well... but if we tell you that then it would only get banned again XD so fk of laser is up but don't buff it k ccp !
broonfondle majikthies P.O.N.A.G.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 41	Posted - 2013.07.25 07:11:00 - [14] - Quote TunRa wrote: Here are some more useless weapons. Always suspected as much. Even when I got the drop on a hacker the damned thing still couldn't do enough damage before they turn and splatter me.
Nalhe Saldana Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 42	Posted - 2013.07.25 07:15:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: * We'll be looking at the plasma cannon along with the other AV weapons as part of the vehicle rework. Can't really touch one without touching the other. So not in 1.4 but soon. * For 1.4 we've replaced the ironsights on the laser rifle with a red dot sight similar to the one on the scrambler rifle. I want to see if this changes its performance, it does make it far easier to use and the weapon can still deal a ton of damage.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 832	Posted - 2013.07.25 07:37:00 - [16] - Quote 2Bee Smith wrote: These are what I find to be the "useless" weapons/vehicles in Dust ATM. Theres no need for weapons to be futile Laser Rifle-Too little damage Flaylock-Too Little Damage (In the upcoming patch) HMG-Crap Range and Increased Strafe speeds mean they're ineffective Plasma Cannon- Serves no role Nova Knife- Close to useless I understand that you want each weapon to fit their specific niche but too often when things get nerfed or implemented, they're nerfed/implemented for fear of being too OP. I was reading a thread about a guy's first experience with a laser rifle, he went 1-11... But people were saying that you need complex damage mods, and an Amarr Suit and proficiency V and all these things. You shouldn't have to put in 1.5 million SP in order to go positive with a weapon. It seems that the AR is the meterstick for all the guns. It seems that the AR will be the untouchable child of all the weapons. While I don't necessarily think it should get a nerf, I do feel that you should bring these weak weapons back into the realm of "Good" and if things are unbalanced, there should be subtle nerfs instead of giant nerfs that tend to happen all too often. I believe in you, CCP and I believe in your vision. I just want to help along the way Edit: I have a sneaking suspicion that the Laser Rifle will make a comeback though Hell no its not. The nerf can come sooner on the flay lock. Its should not be able to OHKO its way through my Armour...which it does. I don't want it hit too hard but it should not be that effective. Also the Laser is a great gun its not weak or useless at all. before I got the racial suit I was still doing well with the laser there is no doubt in my mind that gun still easily out classes AR's in terms of combat efficiency. Nova Knifes are insane when used under the right circumstances. E.G- I have a 550 EHP caldari assault that when hit with Ishukone Nova Knives dropped immediately to 29 armour and that scout didn't even get the second hit of the combo on me..... Also of HMG's are so **** how are heavies still kicking ass all over the map?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 777	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:02:00 - [17] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: I have an alt that uses laser rifles to a scary efficiency. If I hang back from the group a bit and fire within optimal, I take people down faster than an AR can. It almost feels like the Chromosome Viziam. Put a scope ot and it would be perfect.
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:42:00 - [18] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I totally do not understand the plasma cannon, yeah, that one is totally worthless. Flaylock I think will still be OK, it's not supposed to be a primary weapon. But, oh the laser rifle, man that thing was bad-ass when I first t started playing 4-5 months ago. It got absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer and is long overdu. for a buff, I mean, you barely ever see it anymore. You know what's funny, people use smg as a primary weapon. Last time I checked the smg or scp can kill you in one clip. People main argument is that no side arm should be able to kill you in one clips which is so false. Every side arm at their high level can and will kill you (expect heavies and epic tankers) in one clip. Sometimes two. Same with the flaylock
Jade Hasegawa Intrepidus XI EoN. 16	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:44:00 - [19] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I totally do not understand the plasma cannon, yeah, that one is totally worthless. Flaylock I think will still be OK, it's not supposed to be a primary weapon. But, oh the laser rifle, man that thing was bad-ass when I first started playing 4-5 months ago. It got absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer and is long overdue for a buff, I mean, you barely ever see it anymore. I see it a heck of alot, but when I tried those burnstalks the devs gave us was amazed how hard they are to use lol, however the fun with scrambler rifles more then makes up for that for me
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 258	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:50:00 - [20] - Quote How come nobody says an SMG isnt meant to be a primary weapon? - Just asking

Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 783	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:51:00 - [21] - Quote Only weapon on that list that is truly useless is the plasma cannon. If you give the laser rifle any more damage it will be horribly over powered. I already skill quick with just the standard version.
forteXVI 89th Infantry Division 35	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:56:00 - [22] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I totally do not understand the plasma cannon, yeah, that one is totally worthless. Flaylock I think will still be OK, it's not supposed to be a primary weapon. But, oh the laser rifle, man that thing was bad-ass when I first started playing 4-5 months ago. It got absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer and is long overdue for a buff, I mean, you barely ever see it anymore. The plasma cannon is an AV/infantry weapon, deals with LAVs and Tanks easily if used right, It's my main weapon, Versatility and range
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 2487	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:06:00 - [23] - Quote Knives used to be great until hit detection went bad and scouts got an unintentional nerf
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 742	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:18:00 - [24] - Quote TBH, I think your assessment of the Flaylock rebalance is wrong. If anything it will become more OP, more prevalent and spammed even more. So they dropped the damage and slightly tightened up the splash, so what? The Operation skill will be making it so that you'll have from 3-8 shots per clip with the same rate of fire. Sounds OP for a weapon with splash damage if you ask me.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 977	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:23:00 - [25] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: TBH, I think your assessment of the Flaylock rebalance is wrong. If anything it will become more OP, more prevalent and spammed even more. So they dropped the damage and slightly tightened up the splash, so what? The Operation skill will be making it so that you'll have from 3-8 shots per clip with the same rate of fire. Sounds OP for a weapon with splash damage if you ask me. its not effecting clip but total ammo.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 258	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:24:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: TBH, I think your assessment of the Flaylock rebalance is wrong. If anything it will become more OP, more prevalent and spammed even more. So they dropped the damage and slightly tightened up the splash, so what? The Operation skill will be making it so that you'll have from 3-8 shots per clip with the same rate of fire. Sounds OP for a weapon with splash damage if you ask me. But you are wrong - The ammo skill just gives you 1 more shot per level for the ammo pool. The change was made so you dont have to skill up to lv3 or Lv4 to get the additional shots and Lv5 wouldnt bring you anything. The only way to get an additional shot in the clip is to go Minmatar assault.
Azura Sakura Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 365	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:27:00 - [27] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I totally do not understand the plasma cannon, yeah, that one is totally worthless. Flaylock I think will still be OK, it's not supposed to be a primary weapon. But, oh the laser rifle, man that thing was bad-ass when I first started playing 4-5 months ago. It got absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer and is long overdue for a buff, I mean, you barely ever see it anymore. Yes please buff laser rifle. Tired of using and dying to ARs. I use the Sar but with the DS3 I over shoot a lot and I only have the basic :(
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 742	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:27:00 - [28] - Quote @Daxxis & Ladwar Yeah, I just re-read the patch notes, I must've misread them the first time. Oops, though I still don't think it sounds as UP as the OP would state. Not OP as I had originally thought either though.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 784	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:32:00 - [29] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: The only way to get an additional shot in the clip is to go Minmatar assault. And even at level 5 Minmatar Assault it only increases from 3 to 4.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 259	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:50:00 - [30] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Daxxis & Ladwar Yeah, I just re-read the patch notes, I must've misread them the first time. Oops, though I still don't think it sounds as UP as the OP would state. Not OP as I had originally thought either though. I think the damage more than anything will kill it. If the hit detection isnt spot on or you get any lag then it will be worthless. The drop from 218 (iirc) to 165 is huge. That means the Core will be under the current standard Flaylock in damage, only the breach may hit the 200 mark. This is on the assumpltion that adv will be 10% more powerful than std and proto 10% more powerful than adv. It has to be this way because the Core is the real problem. The weapon can still be used as a finisher or in conjunction with a flux but while that is acceptable to some I think it goes way too far and is a joke if CCP expects people to skill the same amount of SP into weapons.

Sollemnis Aelinos 89th Infantry Division 86	Posted - 2013.07.25 16:06:00 - [31] - Quote 2Bee Smith wrote: Nova Knife- Close to useless my response to that statement
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 121	Posted - 2013.07.25 16:17:00 - [32] - Quote Small Railgun Turrets. They are impossible to aim and never manage to shoot where you actually aim them.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 1064	Posted - 2013.07.25 16:41:00 - [33] - Quote At least 2 items on your list are currently suffering from bugs - the HMG struggles because there's a strafing speed bug where most suits are not having their speed modifiers applied to strafing (or something along those lines I gathered from Wolfman's short comments on this in the last couple of days) - nova knives are struggling purely because of hit detection issues; nothing needs to be modified with the weapon itself. As for some of the others on the list: The laser rifle will be better when people can actually aim it - it's getting a red dot sight like the scrambler rifle in 1.3 or 1.4. The flaylock will be fine and still perfectly capable of killing an enemy in one clip - just not one hit! As others have said the only weapon on your list that is actually useless because it's bad is the plasma cannon - this bad boy needs some sort of multiplier against vehicles or something or maybe just double the current damage.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3470	Posted - 2013.07.25 17:25:00 - [34] - Quote My 600 HP damage knives like to have a word with you. Keep in mind that this is when the knives are uncharged. 1200 HP damage when charged. Try tanking that kind of damage. Heavies fear me.
Skipper Jones Molon Labe. League of Infamy 493	Posted - 2013.07.25 17:36:00 - [35] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I totally do not understand the plasma cannon, yeah, that one is totally worthless. Flaylock I think will still be OK, it's not supposed to be a primary weapon. But, oh the laser rifle, man that thing was bad-ass when I first started playing 4-5 months ago. It got absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer and is long overdue for a buff, I mean, you barely ever see it anymore. Yes please buff laser rifle. Tired of using and dying to ARs. I use the SR but with the DS3 I over shoot a lot and I only have the basic :( Man you gotta use the assault variation. It's so fun and actually a very good weapon. AScR FTW
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 117	Posted - 2013.07.25 18:09:00 - [36] - Quote GÇ£We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.GÇ¥ GÇò Konstantin Josef Jire-ìek This should be the moto of the heavy with an HMG.


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